Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Augie said: Wait, the 21-24 age group has 26%, and the three 3 years age ranges following that average 8.67%, and you don’t see that as a decrease? dod those new math aholes go change what percent means now? thus; if 26% of 25 years olds do it, and 26% of 26 yo do it and 26% of 27 yo do it and 26% of 28 yo do it then that means 104% of 25-28 yo do this? Edited May 18, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1
njbuff Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 18 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: I don't think there are enough anecdotes in this thread from which I can make an informed decision. I would like to get the perspective of people over 30 who still drive impaired and have never gotten a DWI. Thanks. I think I can safely say that we have all done it. When I was younger, I learned my lesson the easy way (meaning no one got hurt and I didn't get pulled over). When I was buzzed (fancy word for being drunk ?), almost drove off the freaking GWB. That almost fatal experience sobered me up real quick. My speedometer was over 140 miles an hour also. From that moment, I NEVER have driven impaired again going on 26 years. I learned the easy way and got VERY LUCKY. 3
MJS Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 22 minutes ago, njbuff said: I think I can safely say that we have all done it. When I was younger, I learned my lesson the easy way (meaning no one got hurt and I didn't get pulled over). When I was buzzed (fancy word for being drunk ?), almost drove off the freaking GWB. That almost fatal experience sobered me up real quick. My speedometer was over 140 miles an hour also. From that moment, I NEVER have driven impaired again going on 26 years. I learned the easy way and got VERY LUCKY. I hate to be that guy, but we have not all done it. I never have. And there are TONS of people who never have. Not trying to judge anyone or point fingers, but it is very common for people who break the law or do "bad" things to justify it by assuming that everyone else is doing it as well (not necessarily you, just people in general). We justify things like that so we can maintain our self image and not feel bad about ourselves as people. 2
Hampton Josh fan Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 This is disappointing given the incredible potential Oliver has. The only thing to say is he better understand he has arrived at the crossroads of his career. Look in the mirror and realize he does not have another misstep available. The NFL will allow a young pro to screw up one time. The next time he's damaged good, not worth the gamble. I hope he has good family support and advisors that he trusts. I like Oliver, but I don't have the capacity to support a guy who can't understand the big picture and responsibility to team.
3rdand12 Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, MJS said: I hate to be that guy, but we have not all done it. I never have. And there are TONS of people who never have. Not trying to judge anyone or point fingers, but it is very common for people who break the law or do "bad" things to justify it by assuming that everyone else is doing it as well (not necessarily you, just people in general). We justify things like that so we can maintain our self image and not feel bad about ourselves as people. you never did really stupid stuff that you learned from ?
MJS Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: you never did really stupid stuff that you learned from ? He claimed specifically that all of us have driven under the influence. That I have not done. Many people don't drink at all, and many who do, don't drink more than a couple drinks at a time. And most of those who DO drink and drive are men. So there's a significant portion of the population that has never broken the law while driving under the influence of alcohol. Edited May 18, 2020 by MJS
YoloinOhio Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 24 minutes ago, MJS said: He claimed specifically that all of us have driven under the influence. That I have not done. Many people don't drink at all, and many who do, don't drink more than a couple drinks at a time. And most of those who DO drink and drive are men. So there's a significant portion of the population that has never broken the law while driving under the influence of alcohol. I did not know this
Augie Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, njbuff said: I think I can safely say that we have all done it. When I was younger, I learned my lesson the easy way (meaning no one got hurt and I didn't get pulled over). When I was buzzed (fancy word for being drunk ?), almost drove off the freaking GWB. That almost fatal experience sobered me up real quick. My speedometer was over 140 miles an hour also. From that moment, I NEVER have driven impaired again going on 26 years. I learned the easy way and got VERY LUCKY. Years ago I was sitting at home on a Friday night when a heard a loud crash. I ran out front to find a car parked on top of the mailbox of the house across the street........upside down. Yes, on it’s roof. The baby sitter at the house has run out front and is trying to call the homeowners. A young guy crawls out of the car, rips the phone away from her, and makes a call. (This is before everyone on the planet had a cell phone.) The first words out of his mouth were “Mom, I did it again.” HUH? It was “winter” in Florida, and it seemed odd that his front passenger window was down. The light went on for me, and I could see it all happening. The road was narrow and winding between us and the folks across the road and had an island at that point. The speed limit was like 10-15mph there. He had rolled the window down, tossed his Budweiser bottles into my front yard exactly where I expected to find them, lost track of the bend while aiming out the window, right front went up a berm and hit a palm tree, flipping him upside down and spinning on the roof. Not everyone has THAT kind of a moment, but far too many do. Kids (especially boys), alcohol and cars are a dangerous combination! . Edited May 18, 2020 by Augie 1
BillsFan2313 Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Mickey said: My work was where I live, not Buffalo and it was between 2001 and 2009. Does your active involvement include excusing or making light of a guy drunk driving a pickup pulling a trailer with an ATV on it, an open beer between his legs and in possession of a fire arm while weaving in an out of his lane? The organization kind of frowned on that back when I was involved. Agreed. Just hope he learns from it, so many do not. Show facts
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: I get that. It's still the percent of the total busted who fall into each group. An arrest for DWI is as likely to be 21-24 year old as it is to be someone in their late 20's to mid 30'. And almost the as likely as someone 35-44. So, as age cohorts, there is not a significant drop off as people age. Wow. @Limeaid To your point, get a load of this. Edited May 18, 2020 by JoshAllenHasBigHands
Mr. WEO Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Augie said: Wait, the 21-24 age group has 26%, and the three 3 years age ranges following that average 8.67%, and you don’t see that as a decrease? As a percent of the total (and these are fatal crash numbers that me and others have been posting from NHTSA): 21-24: 27% 25-34: 26% 35-44: 23% Not a significant drop over those 3 age groups. Compared to 2008, all groups had a decrease except these groups went up: 55-64, 65-74, 75+....all went up. "The 10-year trend of alcohol-impaired drivers involved increased for older drivers when compared to younger drivers." 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: Whats the percentage of people ages 41-44? If you take away ages 35-40, will it still be 23%? Or will it be lower? People do grow up and look at consequences more than they did when they were younger. Its just human nature. There’s a phrase called “young and dumb”. Ive never had a DUI and have been very lucky. Im not lucky anymore because I don’t need it because I don’t drink to the point where I would get a DUI. The same goes for so many people I know. People grow out of things whether you want to believe it or not. I had a Mustang when I was 21. I used to go on the highway and do over 100 mph in stretches. I don’t do that anymore either. Personal anecdotes don't change the facts presented in the stats above. When a cop pulls over a DWI and they blow/blood .08 of higher, they are equally as likely to be 21-24 as they are to be 25-34 and nearly as likely 35-44. So clearly, this is a problem that does not disappear with age. All 3 age groups essentially equally represented. It's obviously not just the young and dumb. No one would seriously compare sober speeding to drunk driving. 1 hour ago, BillsPride12 said: I'm sorry but you sound completely ignorant by saying people don't grow out of drinking and driving. I'd say that is one of the most common stupid things young adults do when they are in that age range. I'm not sure what your background is and maybe you were in the service or something and matured at an earlier age than your peers or something and kudos to you if that's the case but a 22 year old is still a college-aged kid at that time. An adult technically but for anybody that remembers what life is like for a 22 year old that is still the knucklehead stage. 22 was probably the craziest year of my life. You still feel invincible at that age. I don't have a clue what the percentage is but I promise you that the number of people who drive intoxicated in their early 20's that grows out of it is extremely higher than the percentage of people who will drive intoxicated for the rest of their life. Good thing I didn't say that. Obviously some do. But personal testimonials are meaningless when discussing the numbers as they are. It's not a problem of "youth" specifically. Many don't grow out of it.
MJS Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I did not know this It's not a fact, it's just likely. We know that about 80% of binge drinkers (drinking 5 or more drinks for men and 4 or more drinks for women) are men. So the pool of likely candidates to then drive after binge drinking is mainly men. And we know that those who are caught are overwhelmingly men. So the natural conclusion is that men are more likely to drink and drive then women. https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/binge-drinking.htm Edited May 18, 2020 by MJS
Augie Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: As a percent of the total (and these are fatal crash numbers that me and others have been posting from NHTSA): 21-24: 27% 25-34: 26% 35-44: 23% Not a significant drop over those 3 age groups. Compared to 2008, all groups had a decrease except these groups went up: 55-64, 65-74, 75+....all went up. "The 10-year trend of alcohol-impaired drivers involved increased for older drivers when compared to younger drivers." Personal anecdotes don't change the facts presented in the stats above. When a cop pulls over a DWI and they blow/blood .08 of higher, they are equally as likely to be 21-24 as they are to be 25-34 and nearly as likely 35-44. So clearly, this is a problem that does not disappear with age. All 3 age groups essentially equally represented. It's obviously not just the young and dumb. No one would seriously compare sober speeding to drunk driving. Good thing I didn't say that. Obviously some do. But personal testimonials are meaningless when discussing the numbers as they are. It's not a problem of "youth" specifically. Many don't grow out of it. SOME do not grown out of it, it’s not exclusive to youth, but the math is a bit faulty here. You keep comparing a 3 year period to 9 year periods, and the actual averages go to undermine your point. Divide the 9 year period by 3 to get and actual 3 year number and you get: 21-24 is 26% 25-34 averages 8.67% (over each 3 year period) and 35-44 averages 7.66% (over each 3 year period) I always hated math, but I love humor. I find it hysterical that I am explaining this. It gets better as people age, whether you like it or not. Drunk driving does not disappear with age, but people generally grow up. 2
BillsPride12 Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: As a percent of the total (and these are fatal crash numbers that me and others have been posting from NHTSA): 21-24: 27% 25-34: 26% 35-44: 23% Not a significant drop over those 3 age groups. Compared to 2008, all groups had a decrease except these groups went up: 55-64, 65-74, 75+....all went up. "The 10-year trend of alcohol-impaired drivers involved increased for older drivers when compared to younger drivers." Personal anecdotes don't change the facts presented in the stats above. When a cop pulls over a DWI and they blow/blood .08 of higher, they are equally as likely to be 21-24 as they are to be 25-34 and nearly as likely 35-44. So clearly, this is a problem that does not disappear with age. All 3 age groups essentially equally represented. It's obviously not just the young and dumb. No one would seriously compare sober speeding to drunk driving. Good thing I didn't say that. Obviously some do. But personal testimonials are meaningless when discussing the numbers as they are. It's not a problem of "youth" specifically. Many don't grow out of it. Agree to disagree. The problem with this argument is it's going to be subjective to your own personal life and experiences. While I think everybody would agree what Ed did was wrong and getting behind the wheel after some pops is WRONG in general..if you are someone that never did that in your life I can see why you would think it's inexcusable under any circumstances. For those of us that lived that lifestyle when we were young and dumb I think we can empathize seeing a young person make the same stupid mistakes that we had to learn and grow up from. I will say this though it sounds like you weren't around the bar and party scene when you were younger which is fine but I promise you there's a HUGE population of kids that age that will drive after having some drinks and it's usually just because a lot of kids are inexperienced in life and think they are invincible at that stage, not that they think they are putting anybody in danger. Most grow out of that but obviously not all. As for the adult population that drives under the influence that is an entirely different demographic where there are probably more issues going on like alcoholism, depression etc.
Royale with Cheese Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: As a percent of the total (and these are fatal crash numbers that me and others have been posting from NHTSA): 21-24: 27% 25-34: 26% 35-44: 23% Not a significant drop over those 3 age groups. Compared to 2008, all groups had a decrease except these groups went up: 55-64, 65-74, 75+....all went up. "The 10-year trend of alcohol-impaired drivers involved increased for older drivers when compared to younger drivers." Personal anecdotes don't change the facts presented in the stats above. When a cop pulls over a DWI and they blow/blood .08 of higher, they are equally as likely to be 21-24 as they are to be 25-34 and nearly as likely 35-44. So clearly, this is a problem that does not disappear with age. All 3 age groups essentially equally represented. It's obviously not just the young and dumb. No one would seriously compare sober speeding to drunk driving. You didn’t answer my question. You’re still comparing a 3 year age group with 9 year age group. The age groups are not equally represented because of that. Edited May 18, 2020 by Royale with Cheese 1
Royale with Cheese Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Augie said: SOME do not grown out of it, it’s not exclusive to youth, but the math is a bit faulty here. You keep comparing a 3 year period to 9 year periods, and the actual averages go to undermine your point. Divide the 9 year period by 3 to get and actual 3 year number and you get: 21-24 is 26% 25-34 averages 8.67% (over each 3 year period) and 35-44 averages 7.66% (over each 3 year period) I always hated math, but I love humor. I find it hysterical that I am explaining this. It gets better as people age, whether you like it or not. Drunk driving does not disappear with age, but people generally grow up. Exactly. Its like comparing TD passes in the NFL. What age group throws the most TD passes? 21-24 year olds? Or 25-33 year olds? Obviously its the 25-33 year olds because there are more.
Mr. WEO Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Augie said: SOME do not grown out of it, it’s not exclusive to youth, but the math is a bit faulty here. You keep comparing a 3 year period to 9 year periods, and the actual averages go to undermine your point. Divide the 9 year period by 3 to get and actual 3 year number and you get: 21-24 is 26% 25-34 averages 8.67% (over each 3 year period) and 35-44 averages 7.66% (over each 3 year period) I always hated math, but I love humor. I find it hysterical that I am explaining this. It gets better as people age, whether you like it or not. Drunk driving does not disappear with age, but people generally grow up. That's not how it works (but glad you got a kick out of it your way though). You can't assume there is an even distribution for every 3 year period within a group (why would you?-these aren't random numbers). It could be that the oldest 3rd year period in each group has the highest number--they don't show the every-3-year-age breakdown for the decade groups. But you can't just divide the total by 3 lol. They are comparing clearly defined age groups. Anyway, it's not me comparing, this is how the NHSTA grouped their data. Early 20's, 30's, mid 40's---the lethal DWIs are nearly equally represented in all 3 age groups. 2 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said: Agree to disagree. The problem with this argument is it's going to be subjective to your own personal life and experiences. While I think everybody would agree what Ed did was wrong and getting behind the wheel after some pops is WRONG in general..if you are someone that never did that in your life I can see why you would think it's inexcusable under any circumstances. For those of us that lived that lifestyle when we were young and dumb I think we can empathize seeing a young person make the same stupid mistakes that we had to learn and grow up from. I will say this though it sounds like you weren't around the bar and party scene when you were younger which is fine but I promise you there's a HUGE population of kids that age that will drive after having some drinks and it's usually just because a lot of kids are inexperienced in life and think they are invincible at that stage, not that they think they are putting anybody in danger. Most grow out of that but obviously not all. As for the adult population that drives under the influence that is an entirely different demographic where there are probably more issues going on like alcoholism, depression etc. No. Stats aren't a limited collection of personal life experiences. 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: You didn’t answer my question. You’re still comparing a 3 year age group with 9 year age group. I'm using the data you cited in your post. And it doesn't matter whether they give each year age breakdown. It's simple: the question is do people "grow out of" drinking and driving as they age, compared to young adult (21-24, for these purposes). Looking at the data (which you cited), the question can be answered by noting that, in fatal DWI car crashes involving BAL over .08, it is equally likely the crash involved a 21-24 as a 25-34 and nearly as equally a 35-44 year old. This means it's not dropping off in a meaningful way.
Royale with Cheese Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: That's not how it works (but glad you got a kick out of it your way though). You can't assume there is an even distribution for every 3 year period within a group (why would you?-these aren't random numbers). It could be that the oldest 3rd year period in each group has the highest number--they don't show the every-3-year-age breakdown for the decade groups. But you can't just divide the total by 3 lol. They are comparing clearly defined age groups. Anyway, it's not me comparing, this is how the NHSTA grouped their data. Early 20's, 30's, mid 40's---the lethal DWIs are nearly equally represented in all 3 age groups. No. Stats aren't a limited collection of personal life experiences. I'm using the data you cited in your post. And it doesn't matter whether they give each year age breakdown. It's simple: the question is do people "grow out of" drinking and driving as they age, compared to young adult (21-24, for these purposes). Looking at the data (which you cited), the question can be answered by noting that, in fatal DWI car crashes involving BAL over .08, it is equally likely the crash involved a 21-24 as a 25-34 and nearly as equally a 35-44 year old. This means it's not dropping off in a meaningful way. I don’t understand how this is so hard for you. 1
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