Doc Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 38 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I wouldn’t say that he dropped like a rock. He was widely considered to be a 3rd rounder and was going to be the 6th or 7th RB drafted depending on where teams stood on Dillon. He was technically 9th but 8th of you don’t consider Gibson an RB (which I don’t). He went 86 which is in line with where most experts seemed to have him. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/ I think Kiper was a little higher on him but in general that’s about where he was expected to go. 32 minutes ago, DCOrange said: He was generally viewed as the 5th or 6th best RB prospect. He still was taken in the same range that most expected but there were definitely RBs taken ahead of him that were not expected to be. But yeah, definitely don’t think he dropped like a rock. It’s more that if you would have said 8 RBs were taken ahead of him, most people would have been a little surprised. It’s also obviously possible that NFL personnel were never as high on him as the media was. I think a 4.52 at the Combine would have moved him into the 2nd round. Maybe that's not technically dropping like a rock, but it's a large drop.
Dr. Who Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said: This running game will open up the passing game, and vice versa. If Josh can hit the long balls....watch out. If he hits the long ball, all those folks voting against top ten qb are in lost the bet category. 1
JohnC Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Eh, Moss isn’t fast but that’s okay. It’s nice to see him improve his time but I don’t think that makes much difference. His game isn’t predicated on running away from people. Frank Gore’s game was never that either. Moss earns his money banging on people in the hole. He’s elite at that. The player that Moss most reminds me of is Chris Ivory. He is a straight line North/South player who is good at reading the blocks and finding the seam. My worry with him is that his battering style of running usually has a short self life for high level play. For a back Ivory had a long career where he was one of the more punishing backs in the league. But you could see that the toll of giving out hits and taking hits wore him down and affected his play. When he played for Buffalo he was a shell of a player compared to when he played with the Jets. 1 1
T master Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 If Moss turns out to be all the "Experts" are saying he is Singletary might need to bring a bit extra to his work outs Moss might put him self in place to be the lead back !
Kirby Jackson Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 39 minutes ago, Doc said: I think a 4.52 at the Combine would have moved him into the 2nd round. Maybe that's not technically dropping like a rock, but it's a large drop. I didn’t see many people that had him above CEH, Swift, Dobbins, Taylor, or Akers. He went after those guys and doubt he would have passed them. He may have went earlier than 86 but he probably wasn’t going in the top 60-65 IMO. 1
TigerJ Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 This news has been out there for a while. It's the first tape I've seen though.
Doc Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 23 minutes ago, JohnC said: The player that Moss most reminds me of is Chris Ivory. He is a straight line North/South player who is good at reading the blocks and finding the seam. My worry with him is that his battering style of running usually has a short self life for high level play. For a back Ivory had a long career where he was one of the more punishing backs in the league. But you could see that the toll of giving out hits and taking hits wore him down and affected his play. When he played for Buffalo he was a shell of a player compared to when he played with the Jets. If the Bills can get the first 4-5 years out of Moss that Ivory produced (on a YPC basis), it will have been a worthwhile pick. 10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I didn’t see many people that had him above CEH, Swift, Dobbins, Taylor, or Akers. He went after those guys and doubt he would have passed them. He may have went earlier than 86 but he probably wasn’t going in the top 60-65 IMO. I think that's mostly because of the 40-time. I think he could have gone before Dillon, who went, I thought surpringly, at the end of 2nd.
keepthefaith Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Doc said: Which video are you talking about? The one in the OP shows him finishing with a 4.52 and a 10-yard split of 1.60, 20-yard of 2.63 and 30-yard of 3.61. Yes, those are the numbers and it was electronic timing. If he makes it a priority he can get faster. His running form isn't great. Very low knee lift and the ankle flex looks a little tight. Overall he's a very tight runner. Needs to loosen up and lengthen his stride if he wants to be faster. 1
Mr. WEO Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 11 hours ago, The Dean said: IMO, the Bills lucked out big time due to this. He dropped like a rock due to his combine numbers. Or so it seems. Most draft scouting had him compared to Kareem Hunt. His relatively low speed/lack of high end were well known before the combine so I doubt that hurt him at all. Anyone who scouted him had already commented on his speed. Most had him as a 3rd rounder or possible 2nd. His elusiveness and power uniformly praised. His lack of speed the fact that he takes a ton of hits were also a topic. I can't imagine any NFL scouting office learns much new info that is useful to them based on 40 times. RBs like this guy aren't drafted for their untouched open filed speed because he will rarely need that. 1
Kirby Jackson Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 50 minutes ago, Doc said: If the Bills can get the first 4-5 years out of Moss that Ivory produced (on a YPC basis), it will have been a worthwhile pick. I think that's mostly because of the 40-time. I think he could have gone before Dillon, who went, I thought surpringly, at the end of 2nd. He wasn’t ahead of them pre-40 either though. That was kind of my point. He didn’t rise or fall (much) because of his time. He is a bruising power back. If he was sub 4.4 he’d be Peterson. I do agree with Dillon though. I’m a little surprised that he went before Moss. I think Henry’s strong end to last season (and all of last season) really helped Dillon. Their numbers were pretty similar across the board.
Doc Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: He wasn’t ahead of them pre-40 either though. That was kind of my point. He didn’t rise or fall (much) because of his time. He is a bruising power back. If he was sub 4.4 he’d be Peterson. I do agree with Dillon though. I’m a little surprised that he went before Moss. I think Henry’s strong end to last season (and all of last season) really helped Dillon. Their numbers were pretty similar across the board. My sense is that the perception was that he wasn't a fast RB and the Combine confirmed that. I think a 4.52 would have put him a round earlier, or at least much earlier in the 3rd. Again we're playing semantics talking about dropping "like a rock." And I was looking for the Bills to draft Dillon in the 4th. When he unexpectedly went in the 2nd, I knew they had to jump on a RB in the 3rd. I was glad to hear they liked Moss enough to try and trade up for him, but am even more glad they got him without having to do so.
JohnC Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 59 minutes ago, Doc said: If the Bills can get the first 4-5 years out of Moss that Ivory produced (on a YPC basis), it will have been a worthwhile pick. I'll go a little beyond your evaluation. If his production is comparable to Ivory's production in his first 4-5 years it will be better than a worthwhile pick, it would be a very good pick. My point in the original post is if he doesn't to an extent modify his battering style of play such as at times judiciously going down or go out of bounds he will shorten his lifespan as a back. Without question this was a terrific pick.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Doc said: My sense is that the perception was that he wasn't a fast RB and the Combine confirmed that. I think a 4.52 would have put him a round earlier, or at least much earlier in the 3rd. Again we're playing semantics talking about dropping "like a rock." And I was looking for the Bills to draft Dillon in the 4th. When he unexpectedly went in the 2nd, I knew they had to jump on a RB in the 3rd. I was glad to hear they liked Moss enough to try and trade up for him, but am even more glad they got him without having to do so. Candidly he wasn’t my favorite (and Dillon really wasn’t either). I wanted Dobbins in the 2nd as it played out. I was always, and still am, of the belief that the Bills need more home run hitters. I get that they wanted a power guy though and Moss fits that perfectly. Edited May 16, 2020 by Kirby Jackson 1
Putin Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: For $500, would you guys put on shoulder pads and take him head on? Like your the MLB filling in the hole on a goaline stand. I have good medical insurance so that would take care of my hospital bill , but I would probably miss a week of work and would end up spending that $500 on pain meds so hell no I wouldn’t do it ... Edited May 16, 2020 by Putin
buffaloboyinATL Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 14 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: I’m too amped for #MotorMoss. What a duo and we got them both in the 3rd. Don’t have to worry about RB at all for the next 4 years I say we call him Diesel. Motor and Diesel make a great 1-2 punch. 1
JohnC Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: He wasn’t ahead of them pre-40 either though. That was kind of my point. He didn’t rise or fall (much) because of his time. He is a bruising power back. If he was sub 4.4 he’d be Peterson. I do agree with Dillon though. I’m a little surprised that he went before Moss. I think Henry’s strong end to last season (and all of last season) really helped Dillon. Their numbers were pretty similar across the board. Very often there is a wide variation between what the draft analysts predict and what actually happens at the draft. In general, I thought the pre-draft predictions came close to mirroring the actual draft with respect to the running backs. And as you pointed out because of the dominating season that Henry had, Dillon who was compared to him in style, had his status elevated. Dillon was the back that I found very intriguing and hoped the Bills would draft. I consider Moss a more intelligent and natural back. But I understand why the Packers were willing to gamble taking Dillon higher than most teams would have after watching how Henry influenced the offense in Tennessee.
Bangarang Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 27 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: I say we call him Diesel. Motor and Diesel make a great 1-2 punch. C’mon brah put em together and they can be known as Diesel Motor 1
GoBills808 Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Bangarang said: C’mon brah put em together and they can be known as Diesel Motor Technically a motor is powered by electricity, whereas engines rely on combustion from typically either gasoline or diesel fuel. 1
JESSEFEFFER Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Candidly he wasn’t my favorite (and Dillon really wasn’t either). I wanted Dobbins in the 2nd as it played out. I was always, and still am, of the belief that the Bills need more home run hitters. I get that they wanted a power guy though and Moss fits that perfectly. I know that it's an attempt to be happier post Christmas with the gifts you got rather than what you thought you wanted but..... Let's compare him to Taylor, the homerun hitter. It's likely true that Zack blocks better, does more as a pass catcher, breaks more tackles and fumbles less than JT. If this is generally true, we'd all be quite pleased that he's a Bill. The bonus is that Epenesa is on the team too.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said: I know that it's an attempt to be happier post Christmas with the gifts you got rather than what you thought you wanted but..... Let's compare him to Taylor, the homerun hitter. It's likely true that Zack blocks better, does more as a pass catcher, breaks more tackles and fumbles less than JT. If this is generally true, we'd all be quite pleased that he's a Bill. The bonus is that Epenesa is on the team too. Yeah but Dobbins & Greenard > Epenesa & Moss IMO. Everyone has their guys though. I’m not trying to MMQB it. I might be right and might be wrong. I hope that they are both great. I think that they both have pretty high floors. As a contending team, I get the guys that they went with. Both of them should contribute now.
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