Minority HC or GM could improve team’s draft position with new proposed resolution

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

If it were the same exact situation, where the vast majority of the league is made up of white players but there's almost no white coaches, then yeah, I don't see why it would be wrong to try to do something about that. It'll never be a thing though.

 

And again, I tend to lean towards this not being the right proposal in this situation, but I think I'm more open to it than most of the posters here.

What if it was right now, as things stand? 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

And they were hired without merit?

 

I’m asking if it would be racist if directed towards whites. 

Pointing to a logical fallacy in the NFL rule proposition? Why is racial inequality acceptable at CB but not at Head coach?

Dude, we were doing so good.  You don’t see how terrible comparing a white cb is to hiring a minority coach?  Come on boss, this is just stupid.  Every white person who plays cb has a chance to make the nfl.  But since Jason Sehorn, none have been physically able to.  
 

There isn’t a combine for coaches and nfl executives.  Brian Daboll isn’t in the nfl and keeping getting jobs with his awful resume because he runs a 4.3.  He was friends with the right people.  Tre White isn’t a star nfl cb because he was friends with the right people.  It’s insane to compare the 2.

[Augie]

19 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

For anyone legitimately interested in trying to understand the issue, this article does a pretty good job of breaking things down, though there's plenty of issues that can't really be accounted for.

https://www.bannersociety.com/2017/8/9/20726457/black-head-coaches

 

Essentially, the most likely pathway to becoming a head coach is: Playing QB/C --> QB/OLine Coach --> Coordinator --> Head Coach. Statistically, most minority QBs are moved to other positions when they move up from HS to college. Most minority offensive linemen are put at OT or OG rather than C. Why those position changes occur are highly highly debatable. There's certainly legitimate reasons to move guys out of those positions. For example, my high school team literally threw the ball less than 5 times a game. Our "QB" won regional player of the year, but he couldn't throw a ball to save his life, so he was recruited as RB/CB instead. This kind of thing could innocently impact minorities more than white QBs; it's a case-by-case thing that can't really be accounted for in those position change statistics. It's somewhat reasonable for centers as well, though I think the argument is probably weaker there and it's still a substantial gap. At the time the article was published, roughly 50% of offensive linemen were minorities, but only 9% of centers were.

 

Because minorities aren't playing QB/C outside of the high school level, they don't get the opportunity to become a QB or OLine coach, which means they don't get the opportunity to become a coordinator, which means they don't get the opportunity to become a head coach.

 

So bringing it back to this proposal, again, I don't think there's any chance it passes and I'm not sure I think it should pass in the first place. The issue begins much earlier than the NFL ranks but its effects certainly show up in the NFL. I wonder if a version of this proposal might make more sense: incentivizing teams to hire minorities as their QB/OLine coach and just leave the rest of it alone. It's not in the headline, but this proposal does incentivize hiring minority QB coaches in addition to the other levels that are getting more publicity.

 

That’s an interesting argument, and one that might be changing naturally. It used to be there WAS very little passing, so the best athletes were put at RB, and later leaning more towards WR. More recently, it seems the kids are going 7 on 7 all summer at an early age, throwing more and the QB is running more. The best athlete is often put at QB. I’ve seen it happen many times at the high school level, and it goes from there. 

 

As the game evolves this may correct itself. I don’t like the idea of any rule that rewards anything but competence, but maybe that’s just me. Don’t build race into the rules, for a lot of reasons. Is there some kind of blood test to take? This is not only a bad rule idea, but the idea is fraught with problems.  I don’t think this will pass.  Are there ways to help people prepare to become more worthy? Sure, and I’m all for that development regardless of the color of your skin.  

 

.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Augie

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, whatdrought said:

What if it was right now, as things stand? 

Yes, trying to make something close to 100% would be the definition of racist.  

[JerseyBills]

So should a team with more white athletes be granted special privileges because there's more African Americans playing? 

I like the Rooney rule but this is ridiculous , not a viable solution to the problem

[FireChans]

In all seriousness, tying a competitive advantage to social inequality efforts is just stupid in a league which is supposed to promote a fair arena. This is no less dumb than giving higher picks to teams that donate the most to charity, or whose team has the least amount of players arrested in the offseason.

 

It’s just dumb. Regardless if you think the inequality is an issue or not.

Edited May 15, 2020 by FireChans

[YoloinOhio]

30 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Beane about to show up to owners meetings like Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder 

What do you mean,  “You People”?!

Edited May 15, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[whatdrought]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Dude, we were doing so good.  You don’t see how terrible comparing a white cb is to hiring a minority coach?  Come on boss, this is just stupid.  Every white person who plays cb has a chance to make the nfl.  But since Jason Sehorn, none have been physically able to.  
 

There isn’t a combine for coaches and nfl executives.  Brian Daboll isn’t in the nfl and keeping getting jobs with his awful resume because he runs a 4.3.  He was friends with the right people.  Tre White isn’t a star nfl cb because he was friends with the right people.  It’s insane to compare the 2.

You’re arguing that the league is driven by merit until it’s not. You’re being inconsistent. If merit based judgment can lead to 100% black Cornerbacks, why can’t merit based judgment lead to 80% white coaches? Now we’re back to square one and needing direct examples of minority coaches passed over, which you’ve not offered. 
 

Do you think Daboll should be fired? If so, I think you’re in the minority (no pun intended).

[Sherlock Holmes]

How racist!!!! ?

32 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Beane about to show up to owners meetings like Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder 

Full ######?

[whatdrought]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yes, trying to make something close to 100% would be the definition of racist.  

No, the definition of racist is acting positively or negatively towards one class based on their skin color. The very thing this rule seeks to do. Regardless of white or black. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

You’re arguing that the league is driven by merit until it’s not. You’re being inconsistent. If merit based judgment can lead to 100% black Cornerbacks, why can’t merit based judgment lead to 80% white coaches? Now we’re back to square one and needing direct examples of minority coaches passed over, which you’ve not offered. 
 

Do you think Daboll should be fired? If so, I think you’re in the minority (no pun intended).

There is no merit based on coaching.  You can’t be evaluated for jobs you aren’t getting!  If Brian Daboll was some poor black kid in Chicago instead of Hamburg, he’s not where he is right now.  That’s the whole point.  We can’t evaluate how a minority would do in the position because not a lot are given the opportunity.  And Daboll is crappy bad it’s insane how he gets such a pass here.  If he was McDermott’s first OC, he would have been fired.  
 

Brice Arians made it point to hire black coaches because he recognized how lacking it is.  

[whatdrought]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There is no merit based on coaching.  You can’t be evaluated for jobs you aren’t getting!  If Brian Daboll was some poor black kid in Chicago instead of Hamburg, he’s not where he is right now.  That’s the whole point.  We can’t evaluate how a minority would do in the position because not a lot are given the opportunity.  And Daboll is crappy bad it’s insane how he gets such a pass here.  If he was McDermott’s first OC, he would have been fired.  
 

Brice Arians made it point to hire black coaches because he recognized how lacking it is.  

But to argue that there are less black coaches then there should be because of race means that there are black candidates being judged on race, not merit. Do you believe that?

 

I do think there’s a lot to be done to encourage minorities at lower levels to pursue coaching, but that’s not what this rule about. 

And if they’re qualified, more power to him and them! But Arians also just replaced a black QB with a white guy which shows that he cares as much about winning as he does about racial makeup. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 hours ago, Happy said:

 I thought the Rooney Rule is misguided (though well meaning) because it is nothing more than a box to check where some minority coaching candidates don't even want to be interviewed since it is a waste of their time.  This takes things a step too far as it demeans minority candidates and creates an uneven playing field; each candidate should be considered on his abilities, and nothing else.

I like the Rooney rule. Helps people expand their networks through the interview process. 
 

 GMs usually hire coaches they know or are within their circles. coaches too Often looks for assistants and free agents they know and are within their circles. Just look at all our Carolina connections.  
 

at a minimum, it gets folks to meet each other in an interview setting and start building relationships. 

[jwhit34]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s complicated for sure.  It would nice to have a rational conversation but it’s like discussing the best rap song on a country music board.  
 

the number of black players in the nfl is ~70%.  So when you understand it that way, the number of Black guys in leadership positions is extremely low.  
 

again this is different than being a player where you can judge how they perform on their field.  These jobs are very subjective and they are based on who you know.  It’s like a country club and it’s hard to become a member. 
 

not sure this is the right way but if you were a minority, it’s a start I guess. 

Totally agree. If you go on the premise that most coaches for sure and probably GMs too played the game at least on the collegiate level if not the pros, and 70% of the people who did (and that is an accurate number) are African-American, you would think that way more than 13% of the coaches and GMs would be African American. 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

What a blatantly racist idea.

 

If you believe the United States has a problem with RACISM, then you don't FIX IT by giving bonuses/perks to organizations for HIRING BASED ON RACE.  

It's completely ass-backwards.  Honestly, I don't know how people come up with this ridiculous garbage.  Maybe instead of testing the players for CTE, they need to check the folks in the NFL offices for brain damage.

 

By the way, African Americans make up 12-14 percent of the U.S. population, according to the latest census figures.

If you took that percent and multiplied it by 32 teams, that comes to exactly 4.48.  Which means you would expect to see 4-5 African American head coaches in the NFL at any given time.  There are currently FOUR in the league.  

 

This is a completely made-up and manufactured "problem."

 

 

This.  The idea is stupid and it just continues to keep racism going.  

[Johnnycage46]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I wonder how this is going to go on this board. ? it’s a very diverse group here.

 

and yes forcing people to get hired is a problem.  But the lack of diversity at the top levels in the nfl is a serious issue.  And I don’t think it’s racist but rather the buddy buddy system in NFL front offices.  Crappy coaches and executives get passed around because of who they are friends with.  While being a player is a meritocracy, nfl jobs are the opposite of that. 

 

Is the lack of diversity at the player level an equal problem?  I would agree that it is.

 

And how do we KNOW that coaching choices aren't a meritocracy?

 

[Buffalo03]

2 hours ago, Happy said:

 I thought the Rooney Rule is misguided (though well meaning) because it is nothing more than a box to check where some minority coaching candidates don't even want to be interviewed since it is a waste of their time.  This takes things a step too far as it demeans minority candidates and creates an uneven playing field; each candidate should be considered on his abilities, and nothing else.

Exactly, I have often said that "the Rooney Rule" is pointless. Just because they are forced to interview a minority candidate doesn't mean they have to hire one. Plus, I have always looked at it as unfair to the minority candidate because they are basically getting a pitty interview to meat a requirement which isn't right. These people will hire who they think is best for the job, period. Color of skin doesn't matter

[FLFan]

Amazing to me that this  thread has not already been moved to PPP.  It is an open forum for closeted racists at this point.  

[krf139]

Initiatives like this do more harm to the mission of diversity than good. 

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

This.  The idea is stupid and it just continues to keep racism going.  

Racism goes both ways. Racism against whites can exist too. And agree it does more harm to what we’re trying to achieve than good. This is not what MLK wanted.

[whatdrought]

4 minutes ago, FLFan said:

Amazing to me that this  thread has not already been moved to PPP.  It is an open forum for closeted racists at this point.  

Who would that be?