mjt328 Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Honestly, it’s hard conversation to have if you’re aren’t a minority. It’s going to be hard to fully get it. Same way that a minority shouldn’t think every white person is racist because they are against affirmative action. It would be great to think every person is given an equal shot to succeed in America but it’s simply not true. And In sport where you’re the majority of the population and you’re still not getting the leadership jobs, it kinda sucks. It’s a tough conversation It shouldn't be a tough conversation. We should be teaching our children to judge everyone based on the content of their character. Not based on the color of their skin. Period. I fully understand that as a society (meaning the U.S.), we have a terrible history regarding race. And we still aren't where we need to be. But many of the solutions being proposed (Rooney Rule, Affirmative Action, Diversity Initiatives), are NOT working and are actually doing more to divide us. Instead of encouraging an employer to NOT see skin color, and instead see character when making a hire... these ideas encourage ONLY seeing skin color, or at least making it one of the primary factors. If I was of a minority race, I wouldn't want an employer to just hire me because they needed to hit a quota. I would want to live in a society where my skills and qualifications were the driving force behind me getting the job. 4
formerlyofCtown Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think it’s a great back and forth. If you are minority who struggled to get your foot in the door for so long in this country, you would take every opportunity you have to get ahead. If you are a white man, it sucks to lose on an opportunity that you are more than qualified for because of your skin color. Why does Matt Patricia get 3 years while Steve Wilkes gets one and will never get again? Because he sucked. Marvin Lewis got a long tenure. Bad coaches get fired. Good coaches get retained. Edited May 15, 2020 by formerlyofCtown 1
KD in CA Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 I wonder what other "correct" behavior they should start rewarding. Maybe teams should start at their own 15 after a touchback if the owner isn't vocal enough about climate change or curing AIDS in Africa. 1 3 1
whatdrought Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think it’s a great back and forth. If you are minority who struggled to get your foot in the door for so long in this country, you would take every opportunity you have to get ahead. If you are a white man, it sucks to lose on an opportunity that you are more than qualified for because of your skin color. Why does Matt Patricia get 3 years while Steve Wilkes gets one and will never get again? It sucks to lose out on an opportunity based on your skin color. No matter what color it is. Let’s talk about those who are, and deal with specifics. Cause the Lions are idiots and the NFL values BB castoffs. Why did Todd Bowels get so many years and Pat Shurmur only got two across town? I’m not gonna argue Patricia should still have a job, in fact you can likely find my posts stating the opposite. Are you gonna argue that Wilkes objectively deserved more than 1 year? Here’s A question: why did Josh Rosen get 1 year before being replaced by a black QB while Dwayne Haskins is getting a second year? Edited May 15, 2020 by whatdrought 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 Just now, HappyDays said: I don't know, I feel like if any institution in America is insulted from racism it's the NFL. There is already an incentive to hire the best candidate for the job - win more games, make more money. Many coaches started out as players and obviously there are more enough black players that could follow that track. If the point is that there's too much nepotism in the NFL, of course there is. I just don't think this solves that problem. I'd like to see some examples of qualified black candidates that didn't get interviewed or hired as well. The NFL is too competitive for teams to be making racist hiring decisions. But it’s so subjective. Mike Tomlin might not have been a shot if the Steelers didn’t hire him. Eric Bienenemy (sp) had about as good of a resume of any coach on the market this year. a scrub like Pat Shurmur has gotten 2 head coaching jobs and went 19-46. His uncle was a former nfl DC. Who’s to say a minority coach won’t have done better if given those chances.
artmalibu Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 12% of the nation is black and 9% of the nfl coaches are black.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: It sucks to lose out on an opportunity based on your skin color. No matter what color it is. Let’s talk about those who are, and deal with specifics. Cause the Lions are idiots and the NFL values BB castoffs. Why did Todd Bowels get so many years and Pat Shurmur only got two across town? I’m not gonna argue Patricia should still have a job, in fact you can likely find my posts stating the opposite. Are you gonna argue that Wilkes objectively deserved more than 1 year? I just brought up Pat Shurmur and his 19-46 record in his second head coaching stint! I gotta go but I respect the conversation. When threads like this come up and how background of this board is, I know how it’s going to go. But the thing that has gotten lost in this country is you can disagree with someone but still respect them. Have a good one. 1 minute ago, artmalibu said: 12% of the nation is black and 9% of the nfl coaches are black. This is very lazy. Edited May 15, 2020 by C.Biscuit97
RyanC883 Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 This is a terrible idea for a number of reasons, also likely illegal. But, I’m all in favor of removing the anti-tampering rule.
artmalibu Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I just brought up Pat Shurmur and his 19-46 record in his second head coaching stint! I gotta go but I respect the conversation. Have a good one. This is very lazy. Really? Why is that?
HappyDays Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Mike Tomlin might not have been a shot if the Steelers didn’t hire him. Is this supposed to make sense? If the thing that happened didn't happen, you would be right? Help me out here. 1
whatdrought Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I just brought up Pat Shurmur and his 19-46 record in his second head coaching stint! I gotta go but I respect the conversation. Have a good one. This is very lazy. Shurmur got hired because he’s a very well respected OC and some could argue his rep is better than KC’s guy (can’t ever spell his name) because he calls plays and doesn’t work for one of the best offensive minds in history. The real issue here is that hindsight is being used to evaluate things. Show me the clear example of a minority candidate who was objectively more qualified getting passed over for a white candidate.
Gugny Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, FireChans said: Has anyone pointed out that the people voting on this (the owners) could instead just hire more black coaches and personnel people instead of passing a stupid rule like this? I really think the actual problem needs to be clearly identified. If the most highly-qualified candidates for HC or GM are being overlooked, we need to know why. There could be white candidates being overlooked due to nepotism. Or - at the very worst - black candidates being overlooked due to racism. I don't think we know that. I'd like to know how Arizona landed on Kliff Kingsbury as their guy. He was a horrible college HC with exactly 0 days' experience in the NFL in a coaching capacity of any kind. How does that happen???? 2
whatdrought Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: But, I’m all in favor of removing the anti-tampering rule. I agree. That’s getting glossed over in all this, but it’s a really good decision. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 Just now, artmalibu said: Really? Why is that? 70% of the nfl is black. It’s not the rest of the US population. You don’t think any of those 70% over the years were qualified to have a leadership job?
HappyDays Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: a scrub like Pat Shurmur has gotten 2 head coaching jobs and went 19-46. His uncle was a former nfl DC. Who’s to say a minority coach won’t have done better if given those chances. So are you saying if the NFL gave higher draft position to minority coaches, Pat Shurmur wouldn't have gotten a job? If the racism is so ingrained I have a hard time believing that would make a difference. Frankly I don't think any amount of incentive will make NFL executives hire people that they don't believe to be the best candidate. It won't solve anything, it will just create a lot of pointless resentment. And now every black coach who's hired has that "were they only hired for draft picks?" hanging over their head. I'm good with the way things are. Again - I haven't seen a single example of a qualified black candidate that didn't get a shot.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Shurmur got hired because he’s a very well respected OC and some could argue his rep is better than KC’s guy (can’t ever spell his name) because he calls plays and doesn’t work for one of the best offensive minds in history. The real issue here is that hindsight is being used to evaluate things. Show me the clear example of a minority candidate who was objectively more qualified getting passed over for a white candidate. But that’s the whole point? How can you if more aren’t given the chance? Look in Miami. Sadly, they seemed to have rebuilt one of worst teams in a long time in one year. And Shurmur sucked in Clelveland and he sucked in NJ. He’s a terrible head coach who has gotten multiple chances.
whatdrought Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: But that’s the whole point? How can you if more aren’t given the chance? Look in Miami. Sadly, they seemed to have rebuilt one of worst teams in a long time in one year. And Shurmur sucked in Clelveland and he sucked in NJ. He’s a terrible head coach who has gotten multiple chances. Who Biscuit? Whose this dynamite minority coach getting passed over time and again? The KC coordinator who comes from the same spot as Doug Peterson (SB winner) and Matt Nagy (seemingly a flop)? Flip a coin about which one he’ll be. Everyone sucked in Cleveland and his re-hiring was because he had once again shown himself to be a top 5-10 offensive coordinator after the Cleveland gig. I’m not saying he was the right hire, but you can’t say that at the time he was the wrong one. That’s hindsight and revisionist. 1
KD in CA Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 To believe in any of this nonsense, you'd have to believe an owner would prioritize skin color over the success of his billion dollar investment. And if you believe that, you clearly have never met anyone who has a billion dollar investment. 2
artmalibu Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: 70% of the nfl is black. It’s not the rest of the US population. You don’t think any of those 70% over the years were qualified to have a leadership job? So, when its viewed that blacks are not fairly represented thats a problem. 70 % of the NFL is black and thats ok?
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