Anybody want to go on record about Josh?

[MJS]

Not hard to predict which posters will vote against Allen...

[Bss]

10 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

Can anyone point to examples of NFL QBs who flashed great potential in their first couple of years, but had some question marks, and eventually became great? 

Drew Brees. He showed some potential with the chargers for the first few years but didn't really break out until he went to the Saints. 

[Putin]

38 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Cam Newton without the MVP season.

Now who’s going to pick up a sword and fight?

I’m going for my AK 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

43 minutes ago, eball said:

I’m curious...lots of talk about this and that. What do you predict?

 

Don't you have a gap where we can't weigh in between top half and top 10?

 

[Happy]

I voted top ten, but he may be a little lower than top 10 most likely; probably in top 15.  Josh has the competitive drive and heart to be a leader, as well as one of the better league QBs in the next few years.  I think we throw the word 'elite' around here too much and that builds expectations more than they should be.  I would ultimately like to see Josh be the modern John Elway.

[BruceVilanch]

Top 5 QB.

[billspro]

I’ll go on record that he will be a top 5 NFL QB for at least 5 years. 

12 minutes ago, Happy said:

I voted top ten, but he may be a little lower than top 10 most likely; probably in top 15.  Josh has the competitive drive and heart to be a leader, as well as one of the better league QBs in the next few years.  I think we throw the word 'elite' around here too much and that builds expectations more than they should be.  I would ultimately like to see Josh be the modern John Elway.

that’s conservative, he will be better than that imo. If he figured out the deep ball this offseason, which I think he has, he is going to be a top 5 QB next year. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Future GOAT and he will be paired with fellow future GOAT RB McCaffrey here soon enough

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

 

I think he cracks the top 15 this year, followed by top 10 in 2021. After that I could see him crack the top 5 for a stretch. There's just something about him, he has "it", that competitive edge, the clutch gene. In those two regards he reminds me so much of Kelly. Let's face it, he was behind the learning curve coming out of college and has been playing catch up ever since.

 

After game 4 he had 17 TDs & only 3 INTs.

Inside the redzone 12 TDs & 0 INTs

Inside the 10 yard line 13/21 with 8 TDs & 0 INTs

Played in his first prime time games, all on the road, won the first 2 and was knocking on the door to tie the game at the end of the only game he lost of the 3.

His QB Rating last year, in the 4th quarter with the score +/- 7 points was over 110.0 with 5 TDs & 0 INTs. 

He tied for the league lead in 4th quarter comebacks. 

 

But it's not just on him, he'll need some help.

He needs more help from the running game and with Gore being replaced with Moss I think he'll get it. Only 4 rushing TDs by the RBs last year, Josh had 9.

The O-Line needs to play better. Way too many times we found ourselves in 1st or 2nd & 20, drive killers. Too many total whiffs throughout the year, usually in critical times.

WRs & Knox need to cut down on drops.

 

Basically about 10 more passing yards a quarter and another TD every 1.5 games and he'll crack the top 10(Using 2019 numbers). Fix the long ball and show improvement against the all out blitzes and he'll be well on his way. GO BILLS!!!

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

We have a good thing going with Allen. Please don’t ruin it with your predictions ?

 

Don't worry. Not allowed.

 

Are we cursed if Adam Schein predicts it, though?

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by transplantbillsfan

[KingBoots8]

2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Cam Newton without the MVP season.

Now who’s going to pick up a sword and fight?

I’ll take that as long as he gets the W in the Super Bowl(s)

 

 

[Jay_Fixit]

2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Statically. He's 10x the gamer and leader Newton is. 

I’m curious as to how “gamer” and “leader” are quantified and made into a statistic.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, msw2112 said:

Can anyone point to examples of NFL QBs who flashed great potential in their first couple of years, but had some question marks, and eventually became great?

 

Pretty much every QB. Go look at the rookie stats for a lot of the great QB's and they aren't that good. Pretty much you are banking on potential.

 

The great ones just keep getting better and better every year. The average ones just plateau after a couple years. But a lot of these QB's start out with equally below average rookie seasons and then branch off from there.

 

Tom Brady's stats from his first 2-3 years are not much different from Allen last year, besides throwing for more yards. Similar TD's, more INT's, and similar rating. Roethlisburger threw for less than 20 TD's his first three years. Brees was pretty putrid his first two years.

 

Obviously there are some guys who have great rookie years, but even some of those regress and don't become great.

 

I will say that by year 3 and 4 we should be seeing more. I expect Allen to show more and keep getting better.

Edited May 15, 2020 by MJS

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Allen is a gamer with a will to win that hasn’t been this visceral around here since the glory days imho. The team has quickly gelled around his young leadership because it’s obvious he puts his money where his mouth is and has their back—willing to do whatever it takes to daily get better is a hallmark of future champions is it not?  

 

[Bangarang]

6 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Allen is a gamer with a will to win that hasn’t been this visceral around here since the glory days imho. The team has quickly gelled around his young leadership because it’s obvious he puts his money where his mouth is and has their back—willing to do whatever it takes to daily get better is a hallmark of future champions is it not?  

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I’m curious as to how “gamer” and “leader” are quantified and made into a statistic.

You know it when you see it, right? For example, Josh Rosen could go out there and light it up out of nowhere for a game or 2, and I’m confident I still could say he’s not a true leader at the NFL level (thus far). Intangibles! 

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Was that taken after his walkoff playoff win? 

[purple haze]

3 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Also think Josh is a better leader of men , I think Can and his extra flamboyant style and personality rubs some guys the wrong way...

Cam's teammates seem to love him for the most part.  I think some fans are the one's who get rubbed the wrong way more so than players.

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 hour ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

I think he cracks the top 15 this year, followed by top 10 in 2021. After that I could see him crack the top 5 for a stretch. There's just something about him, he has "it", that competitive edge, the clutch gene. In those two regards he reminds me so much of Kelly. Let's face it, he was behind the learning curve coming out of college and has been playing catch up ever since.

 

After game 4 he had 17 TDs & only 3 INTs.

Inside the redzone 12 TDs & 0 INTs

Inside the 10 yard line 13/21 with 8 TDs & 0 INTs

Played in his first prime time games, all on the road, won the first 2 and was knocking on the door to tie the game at the end of the only game he lost of the 3.

His QB Rating last year, in the 4th quarter with the score +/- 7 points was over 110.0 with 5 TDs & 0 INTs. 

He tied for the league lead in 4th quarter comebacks. 

 

But it's not just on him, he'll need some help.

He needs more help from the running game and with Gore being replaced with Moss I think he'll get it. Only 4 rushing TDs by the RBs last year, Josh had 9.

The O-Line needs to play better. Way too many times we found ourselves in 1st or 2nd & 20, drive killers. Too many total whiffs throughout the year, usually in critical times.

WRs & Knox need to cut down on drops.

 

Basically about 10 more passing yards a quarter and another TD every 1.5 games and he'll crack the top 10(Using 2019 numbers). Fix the long ball and show improvement against the all out blitzes and he'll be well on his way. GO BILLS!!!

 

A "parody of an NFL QB prospect" simply would not be capable of performing that well in those situations.  So most here would agree that he cleared that Barr too.  Two areas that are 100% on him to improve upon.  Ball security while on the move and under tackle and consistently giving his WRs a chance to make a play on the deep throws.  We should be able to see if he improves in those areas rather easily.  I think 400+ points would be a nice benchmark.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, IslandBillsFan said:

Top 10 isn't a good classification of QB's.  Seems like there is an elite level (top 5 or so) and then a middling area before the dregs.  

 

The difference between 10 and 15 isn't that great.  

 

 

You're right, but it's equally true that if you don't have a QB within the top 10 or so in the league, your chances of winning a championship are miniscule. The majority go to teams with QBs in the top five but there are plenty more that go to guys who aren't. Wentz wasn't top five. Wilson is now but he wasn't when the Seahawks won. Eli was definitely playing at a top ten level during both championships. In the first one, he wasn't anywhere close to that for most of the season and he saw the light come on in the last two or three weeks. Top ten but not top five. Roethlisberger's never been a top five guy, always just barely outside that. Simms.

 

There are a few teams who've won championships without top ten QBs. But to do that you generally need a defense that is one of the best not just of that season but of all time. Only then can you generally win one with a QB like Dilfer or McMahon. Around 10% of all SBs are won this way, and out of all the thousands of teams that don't have a top ten QB, the odds on being one of those winners are just tiny.

 

The difference between 10 and 15 isn't that great, you're correct. But that difference seems to make all the difference.

 

 

 

As for the original question, I'm not really interested in that kind of guesswork. I'd rather hope that my hopes are more than hopefulness without guessing either way. But that's me.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Bss]

32 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Tebow was never going to be good but intangibles mattered.  Without them hes the original Nate Peterman, with them he was a bizarre national phenomenon who managed to pull off a lot of crazy ***** despite his complete lack of talent. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Bss