Josh's passing stats for 2019 aren't as bad as many people think.

[Happy Days Lois & Clark]

Josh Allen fumbles are a problem. He also seemed to take too many sacks taking the the team out of field goal range.

[Alphadawg7]

19 hours ago, first_and_ten said:

 

 I think you misunderstand what I mean. Yes Brown had some long catches. Not all of these fit into the "bomb" category I'm speaking about. You have to admit, your eyes don't lie. he overthrew many "bombs" last year. 

109 QB rating on 20+ yard throws to Brown.  Now add Diggs.  
 

He’s gonna be alright.  

[thebandit27]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

109 QB rating on 20+ yard throws to Brown.  Now add Diggs.  
 

He’s gonna be alright.  

I don’t doubt that that’s true, but I haven’t seen the source of that stat. Can you post the link?

[Bangarang]

This reminds of the Tyrod days when people argued he was good because his stats were great when Watkins and Woods both started and finished games.

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

This reminds of the Tyrod days when people argued he was good because his stats were great when Watkins and Woods both started and finished games.

The capacity for contortion acts on this board is incredible. Imagine if TBD’s used that brain power for good? We could probably solve world hunger, rather than argue that Josh is good passing on third and long because we convert 80% of the time when we’re on the left hash and John Brown is lined up on the right. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

I don’t doubt that that’s true, but I haven’t seen the source of that stat. Can you post the link?

 

I was curious as well. Here's two links. You have to do a little leg work to make sure you don't include the passes from Barkley, or the TD pass Brown threw to Singeltary or any short passes then ended up going for over 15 yards. But the raw numbers are:

 

18/38 478 yards 5TDs and 2 INTs  comes out to a rating of 111.29 

 

The above is for Pro Football Reference. Deeps passes to John Brown. It looks like they define a deep pass as any ball traveling 16+ yards in the air.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowJo02/receiving-plays/2019/

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/about/qb-rating.htm

 

I'm sure PFR has a easier way to find the numbers for just Josh Allen to John Brown on deep passes but I haven't figured it out yet. I love playing around with PFR though.

[Nextmanup]

25 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

This reminds of the Tyrod days when people argued he was good because his stats were great when Watkins and Woods both started and finished games.

Folks here are going to absolutely fight and die on Josh Allen hill.

 

He will continue to be discussed here ad nauseam--and defended--long after he leaves the team and begins phase II of his career, holding a clipboard  on the sidelines.

 

 

 

[thebandit27]

42 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

This reminds of the Tyrod days when people argued he was good because his stats were great when Watkins and Woods both started and finished games.

I’m also reminded of Tyrod—when he lead the NFL in 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives, and ranked in the top 3 in 3rd down passer rating and 4th quarter passer rating.

 

Wait...

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I’m also reminded of Tyrod—when he lead the NFL in 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives, and ranked in the top 3 in 3rd down passer rating and 4th quarter passer rating.

 

Wait...

Yeah, Tyrod’s passer rating on 3rd down was absolutely used on this board. You should remember.

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

I’m also reminded of Tyrod—when he lead the NFL in 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives, and ranked in the top 3 in 3rd down passer rating and 4th quarter passer rating.

 

Wait...

You’re right, people just cherry picked whatever Tyrod was good at and clung onto those for dear life. 

Just now, FireChans said:

Yeah, Tyrod’s passer rating on 3rd down was absolutely used on this board. You should remember.

People also loved his QBR and where he was ranked by PFF. We don’t care for those these days for obvious reasons.

[thebandit27]

Just now, FireChans said:

Yeah, Tyrod’s passer rating on 3rd down was absolutely used on this board. You should remember.

We used any and all data to discuss Tyrod. I remember it well.

 

My opinion on him never changed: he was good enough to win games with, but he was limited.

 

Just now, Bangarang said:

You’re right, people just cherry picked whatever Tyrod was good at and clung onto those for dear life. 

You don’t feel that the situations are dramatically different? One was a 4-year vet when he came here who never improved as a passer. The other Has played 2 years and showed significant progress in year 2 despite a lackluster supporting cast.

41 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I was curious as well. Here's two links. You have to do a little leg work to make sure you don't include the passes from Barkley, or the TD pass Brown threw to Singeltary or any short passes then ended up going for over 15 yards. But the raw numbers are:

 

18/38 478 yards 5TDs and 2 INTs  comes out to a rating of 111.29 

 

The above is for Pro Football Reference. Deeps passes to John Brown. It looks like they define a deep pass as any ball traveling 16+ yards in the air.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowJo02/receiving-plays/2019/

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/about/qb-rating.htm

 

I'm sure PFR has a easier way to find the numbers for just Josh Allen to John Brown on deep passes but I haven't figured it out yet. I love playing around with PFR though.

Thanks for the great analysis. This is helpful 

[FireChans]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

We used any and all data to discuss Tyrod. I remember it well.

 

My opinion on him never changed: he was good enough to win games with, but he was limited.

 

You don’t feel that the situations are dramatically different? One was a 4-year vet when he came here who never improved as a passer. The other Has played 2 years and showed significant progress in year 2 despite a lackluster supporting cast.

The situations are different. The usual contortionists contort regardless of the situation. 

[K-9]

I’ll hold off on the TT/JA comparisons until Josh’s fourth year in the league. 
 

In the meantime I’m shocked, SHOCKED! that Taylor’s stats were better with Woods and Wadkins in the game. 
 

I wonder if any of Allen’s receivers will look to get away from playing with him like Woods, who couldn’t get away from Taylor fast enough. 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’ll hold off on the TT/JA comparisons until Josh’s fourth year in the league. 
 

In the meantime I’m shocked, SHOCKED! that Taylor’s stats were better with Woods and Wadkins in the game. 
 

I wonder if any of Allen’s receivers will look to get away from playing with him like Woods, who couldn’t get away from Taylor fast enough. 

The fact that TT’s stats were better with his top two WR’s was never the issue, it was the fact that was used to prop him up as someone better than he was.

 

At least Woods kept his mouth shut. Diggs will let us know by week 3 if he’s unhappy.

 

Although, IIRC Woods was the first player who gave up on EJ. I think he started digging it vs Houston, right?

Edited May 29, 2020 by FireChans

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The fact that TT’s stats were better with his top two WR’s was never the issue, it was the fact that was used to prop him up as someone better than he was.

 

At least Woods kept his mouth shut. Diggs will let us know by week 3 if he’s unhappy.

 

Although, IIRC Woods was the first player who gave up on EJ. I think he started digging it vs Houston, right?

That’s not the way the posts up thread read. But I get your explanation.

 

Diggs gets a bad rap in that regard. And context matters a lot. But if he starts spouting off, F him. 
 

The coaches gave up on EJ before Woods did, but Manuel didn’t do himself any favors. 

[FireChans]

Just now, K-9 said:

That’s not the way the posts up thread read. But I get your explanation.

 

Diggs gets a bad rap in that regard. And context matters a lot. But if he starts spouting off, F him. 
 

The coaches gave up on EJ before Woods did, but Manuel didn’t do himself any favors. 

My contention has always been that Josh has shown enough good thing to like his chances as our QB without diving deep into weird stats that are ultimately meaningless, and he’s shown enough questionable things that you can nit pick some stuff without criticizing him for how he can’t throw the left deep out in away NFC North games when it’s sunny in Buffalo.

 

 

[Bangarang]

39 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

You don’t feel that the situations are dramatically different? One was a 4-year vet when he came here who never improved as a passer. The other Has played 2 years and showed significant progress in year 2 despite a lackluster supporting cast. 

The situations are different but the overall mindset when we talk about QBs is still the same.

 

Allen made significant progress. I’d like to see him make even more progress and be considered good in relation to his peers and not just how he entered the league. 

[thebandit27]

8 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

The situations are different but the overall mindset when we talk about QBs is still the same.

 

Allen made significant progress. I’d like to see him make even more progress and be considered good in relation to his peers and not just how he entered the league. 

Who wouldn’t? I mean I think we’re all on that train.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

I don’t doubt that that’s true, but I haven’t seen the source of that stat. Can you post the link?

Found the link: 

 

 

[Billl]

deleted

Edited May 29, 2020 by Billl