Rams stadium needs 500 mill more .. hopefully portends well for our situation..

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Here's why I think downtown is inevitable. Because the Pegulas have the start of their own Patriot Place in Canalside. A new stadium has to have a structure of retail development for a vital revenue stream. If you stay in OP you have to build that retail from scratch, so it ends up costing you more in the end, and you cannabalize your Canalside development.

The business and financial model has dramatically changed. This pandemic has crushed local and state finances. So you are going to get less, if any, public funds for a new stadium. And as SectionC3 stated retail in brick and mortar stores has dramatically been scaled down. The trend right now is not to build new stores but to either tear them down or repurpose them.

 

What is more likely is that a more austere stadium will be built in a location where it is cheaper to build, also including land costs. And that is certainly not downtown. The world has changed not only for the average man but also for the fat cats who buy billion $$$$ sports franchises. You don't think that the Pegula hotel, restaurants/bars and shopping centers have taken a gut wrenching hit? How long is it going to take to recover?  Look at the Pegulas' original source of wealth in the energy business? It's in a state of depression. That business certainly is cyclical but when renewable energy is the way of the future the long-term prospects for that business doesn't look so good. 

 

My main point is the mind-set of how things used to be does not mean that it will continue to be. The world has changed. You either adapt or go by the wayside. I can't say for sure what the new model will be but I can say is that the old model is less applicable to the new reality. 

[PromoTheRobot]

10 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Retail is dead.  

 

Patriot Place roster of shops

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The business and financial model has dramatically changed. This pandemic has crushed local and state finances. So you are going to get less, if any, public funds for a new stadium. And as SectionC3 stated retail in brick and mortar stores has dramatically been scaled down. The trend right now is not to build new stores but to either tear them down or repurpose them.

 

What is more likely is that a more austere stadium will be built in a location where it is cheaper to build, also including land costs. And that is certainly not downtown. The world has changed not only for the average man but also for the fat cats who buy billion $$$$ sports franchises. You don't think that the Pegula hotel, restaurants/bars and shopping centers have taken a gut wrenching hit? How long is it going to take to recover?  Look at the Pegulas' original source of wealth in the energy business? It's in a state of depression. That business certainly is cyclical but when renewable energy is the way of the future the long-term prospects for that business doesn't look so good. 

 

My main point is the mind-set of how things used to be does not mean that it will continue to be. The world has changed. You either adapt or go by the wayside. I can't say for sure what the new model will be but I can say is that the old model is less applicable to the new reality. 

 

It's too early to say how things will be going forward. If quarantine lingers on in some form long term the Bills will just play games in their field house. No stadium needed.

[ALF]

If the time comes for a new Bills stadium , a open air one not in the snow belt would make sense. This pandemic is a world changing costly event. I would prefer a indoor stadium near the present one , not sure if the Pegulas would do that alone.

[RiotAct]

26 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

It's too early to say how things will be going forward. If quarantine lingers on in some form long term the Bills will just play games in their field house. No stadium needed.

the TV crews would loooooove that ?

[SectionC3]

41 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Patriot Place roster of shops

 

It's too early to say how things will be going forward. If quarantine lingers on in some form long term the Bills will just play games in their field house. No stadium needed.

I’m sure patriot place has a nice roster of shops.  My stock portfolio also looks pretty nice because I’m overweight on Amazon and don’t have REITs or dinosaurs like Kohl’s,  Macy’s, and JCPenney. 

[Like A Mofo]

On 5/14/2020 at 2:00 PM, matter2003 said:

How the hell can costs go from $2.2 Billion to $5-6 Billion?  Someone is bilking them...

 

One word: California.

[mjd1001]

30 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I’m sure patriot place has a nice roster of shops.  My stock portfolio also looks pretty nice because I’m overweight on Amazon and don’t have REITs or dinosaurs like Kohl’s,  Macy’s, and JCPenney. 

I spent a few years living near Boston, and even now my company has an office off of 495 not too far from Foxboro....so I tend to drive by, it not drop in, Patriot place every so often.  The thing is...the place isn't that busy that often.  Many times in the past few years I have dropped by to walk around and stop at a place to eat on a really nice summer day in June or July...but if it is a weekday...the place isn't busy at all. I wouldn't say a 'ghost town', but certainly it is noticable how slow it can be there (pre-covid, of course).  

 

I'd like to see the actual turnover rate of businesses there..or see how much they are subsidized in their locations there....or just to see if they make SO Much more money on gameday/event weekends that it all evens out.

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I spent a few years living near Boston, and even now my company has an office off of 495 not too far from Foxboro....so I tend to drive by, it not drop in, Patriot place every so often.  The thing is...the place isn't that busy that often.  Many times in the past few years I have dropped by to walk around and stop at a place to eat on a really nice summer day in June or July...but if it is a weekday...the place isn't busy at all. I wouldn't say a 'ghost town', but certainly it is noticable how slow it can be there (pre-covid, of course).  

 

I'd like to see the actual turnover rate of businesses there..or see how much they are subsidized in their locations there....or just to see if they make SO Much more money on gameday/event weekends that it all evens out.

Look at harbor center or whatever that thing is in Buffalo.  Great for the city.   Dead zone for retail.  I can’t imagine the pegulas look at that and think doing the same with football would be a good plan.  
 

now, if the new stadium would double as a convention center, or potentially house the Sabres, and had hospitality spinoff possibilities, that might work.  But at this point we probably won’t know for two years whether 65,000 people can safely gather for a football game, or if the appetite for such gatherings will be there.  So the money here is on short term extension in OP, and on ultimately refurbishing OP. 

[Bob in STL]

i am pulling for Stan Kronke to fail.  He screwed the City of St Louis by demanding they build a Palace that they did not need.   He made it impossible to keep the team there and he put a terrible product on the field on purpose.  

 

then he moved to LA to build his own stadium and support two franchises (he even wanted the Raider to play there)  --- now that has changed and he is looking for more public funding for a Stadium no one needs.  No one needs that stadium, what a colossal waste of tax money.  

 

Any way that Stan can Fail is good by me. 

[PromoTheRobot]

50 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

i am pulling for Stan Kronke to fail.  He screwed the City of St Louis by demanding they build a Palace that they did not need.   He made it impossible to keep the team there and he put a terrible product on the field on purpose.  

 

then he moved to LA to build his own stadium and support two franchises (he even wanted the Raider to play there)  --- now that has changed and he is looking for more public funding for a Stadium no one needs.  No one needs that stadium, what a colossal waste of tax money.  

 

Any way that Stan can Fail is good by me. 

 

Unfortunately there's always a lifeline for guys like Kroenke.

[letsgoteam]

Hopefully the current climate of everything (Im talking about the how the country/economy was shut down) that it makes the league and everyone kick the can a few more years more down the road.

 

I will admit that I never been to the stadium, so I wont comment on what I think needs to happen/change as far as improvements go, but from what I understand Iisten to others talk about it seems that retrofit would be the best for everyone?

 

I think that is more of a possibility then before when Jerry Jones and NFL elites were pushing the new stadium narrative back before March.

[machine gun kelly]

The Rams stadium reminds me of that boondoggle in the Chunnel in Boston.  They initially requested from the Feds $2 bil. For that tunnel.  Granted the congestion there is insane, as bad if not worse than NYC, DC, or ATL., but $16 bil. later of our federal tax dollars for something pretty much only NE people use regularly is crazy.  If Kronke pays for the additional $500 mil. I could care less.  I can’t see CA ponying up as they are perpetually broke.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

22 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

If Kronke pays for the additional $500 mil. I could care less.  I can’t see CA ponying up as they are perpetually broke.

Based upon the league name (National Football League), all such expenditures will now be made from the federal level.  Never mind that Interstate highway improvement in your district, or adequate federal funding of PPE for health care workers, millionaires need their diversions, too!

*
?  (I hope nobody takes this suggestion seriously.)

[JohnC]

On 6/10/2020 at 12:32 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Unfortunately there's always a lifeline for guys like Kroenke.

Whatever lifeline there is it won't come from the public well. When the well is dry there is nothing to suck up. Do you think that the state or local governments have extra money to contribute to a mostly private project now or in the future? And in this political environment even if the public entities did have the resources the priority for a private project is at the bottom of the list. 

 

Kroenke got involved in a mega-project that went beyond building a stadium. His out-sized project included substantial development around the stadium. In his calculation that is where the return on his investment was. What he didn't do or more  likely couldn't do is contain the swelling costs in such a grandiose project. Now not only is he having trouble getting the stadium completed because of the cost overruns but when completed the finances will not be able to add up. When you end up with a project where the return on your investment is on the minus side you end up a loser. When you outsmart yourself you end up looking dumb. 

[machine gun kelly]

5 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Based upon the league name (National Football League), all such expenditures will now be made from the federal level.  Never mind that Interstate highway improvement in your district, or adequate federal funding of PPE for health care workers, millionaires need their diversions, too!

*
?  (I hope nobody takes this suggestion seriously.)

Ridgeway, I think you’re joking, but you do see my avatar I live in Tampa, born and raised in Buffalo, but have been a Regional Director so had a rep in NE. The last thing I want to do is live in NE.  I gUess you’re kidding on the National thing and if Kronke can’t maintain costs, I don’t care.  I don’t live in CA, thank god, for no other reason than the cost of living and taxes, but if CA wants to kick in, I have no opinion.

[Peter]

On 6/10/2020 at 11:42 AM, Bob in STL said:

i am pulling for Stan Kronke to fail.  He screwed the City of St Louis by demanding they build a Palace that they did not need.   He made it impossible to keep the team there and he put a terrible product on the field on purpose.  

 

then he moved to LA to build his own stadium and support two franchises (he even wanted the Raider to play there)  --- now that has changed and he is looking for more public funding for a Stadium no one needs.  No one needs that stadium, what a colossal waste of tax money.  

 

Any way that Stan can Fail is good by me. 

 

You are correct.  I have no respect for Silent Stan Kroenke. He screwed over St. Louis and he is from Missouri.  He has no loyalty to where he is from.  [Side note: St. Louis stole the Rams from LA so I have very little sympathy for it].

 

I am an Arsenal fan. Kroenke owns Arsenal as well. The silver lining may be that he may be forced to sell Arsenal to someone who actually will invest in the team the way the owners of the other elite teams do.