boater Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 On 5/18/2020 at 7:12 AM, billsfan_34 said: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, and im normally a pretty optimistic guy. The odds of the Bills getting a new stadium are slimmer and slimmer as each day passes. NYS is bankrupt and through many many conversations with people a max exodus is going to occur. On average, 50k leave the state, 30k come in. Out of the 30k that come in around 22-25k are not US citizens or NY residents- the majority are on medicaid, welfare, food stamps, heap, and all other forms of subsidies. The cost of living, even in Western NY is shooting through the roof and it is unsustainable. The tax base will be diminished. I know much of this because I work for the largest medicaid/medicare insurance company- 2 million members with a large chunk here in NY. If you would like to know more about the fraud and wasteful spending, inbox me. Well that was cheerful. He's not wrong.
1ManRaid Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 On 5/14/2020 at 4:30 PM, dwight in philly said: it portrays how the zeal for stadia in the NFL may have reached its zenith .. now back to realism That's what I figured just from the title without even having to read the article, I don't see how that's so hard to understand. Whenever the powers that be throw their regularly scheduled hissy fit at Buffalo to build a new stadium, the Pegulas just have to point to these inflated costs. These big construction projects are just too loosely regulated with too many back alley kickbacks for there not to be corruption. In Montreal where the mob basically runs construction, you're lucky if your costs only balloon to triple the original budget. Even my humble little city of 133,000 isn't immune to millions lost to embezzlement with the bridge refurbishment we did. Contract got outsourced to a non-local company who predictably bilked our region for every penny they could leading to investigations and whatnot.
billsfan_34 Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 8 hours ago, boater said: Well that was cheerful. He's not wrong. Right? Its sad really, but it is also reality.
BigDingus Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 I think the virus "portends" well for our situation if anything... How many owners are going to be hijacking their fanbases & local governments for handouts while pushing for a new stadium when there's so much uncertainty with future stadium attendance? Sure, some people will still go regardless of the possible risks, but plenty of others will hold out until they know cramming together with 60k-70k other people in a confined area won't just be a contamination breeding ground. Who's going to pay for those PSL's when people rather just watch safely at home on TV? Why build a multi-billion dollar stadium that's possibly going to sit half empty because people don't want to spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars in a s*** economy to sit with potentially infected people jammed tightly together? Seems risky...and a good reason for the Bills to hold off for now.
Charles Romes Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 On 5/14/2020 at 4:24 PM, jeremy2020 said: I think it's safe to say that any construction project of this measure should take the highest estimate and triple it. Can anyone point to a stadium that didn't have cost overruns? Heinz field and Foxboro stadium were both brought in for about 350 and are great outdoor few frills facilities. No one is on these teams back 24/7 about going broke to build a new stadium.
machine gun kelly Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 The other owners and Goodell are going to have an awful time trying to push Buffalo to build a new stadium. That’s a PR nightmare, and yes once there is a vaccine, they’ll try, but as much as I think the Pegulas will want to build downtown, it makes a heck of a more sense sinking a couple hundred million into new era. They can easily build out those nice restaurants and amenities as long as the structure is still sound.
PromoTheRobot Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, aristocrat said: I still don’t know what portends means por·tend /pôrˈtend/ Learn to pronounce verb 3rd person present: portends be a sign or warning that (something, especially something momentous or calamitous) is likely to happen. "the eclipses portend some major events" 24 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: The other owners and Goodell are going to have an awful time trying to push Buffalo to build a new stadium. That’s a PR nightmare, and yes once there is a vaccine, they’ll try, but as much as I think the Pegulas will want to build downtown, it makes a heck of a more sense sinking a couple hundred million into new era. They can easily build out those nice restaurants and amenities as long as the structure is still sound. Disagree. And there are reasons why sinking a billion (and it would be a billion) into a reno is a bad idea. There will be a new stadium eventually, likely downtown, but current events have pushed that at least ten more years into the future. Edited June 9, 2020 by PromoTheRobot 1
PromoTheRobot Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Charles Romes said: Heinz field and Foxboro stadium were both brought in for about 350 and are great outdoor few frills facilities. No one is on these teams back 24/7 about going broke to build a new stadium. Heinz Field cost $281MM in 2000. That's $374MM in 2020 dollars. This figure does not include cost of Three Rivers Stadium demolition. Gillette Stadium cost $351MM in 2001, $509MM in 2020$. not including highway improvements. Patriot Place cost $356MM in 2007. $440MM in 2020$. You might as well stay at New Era than spend half a billion on an open-air stadium near a lake known for gale-force winds and lake effect snow.
Charles Romes Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Heinz Field cost $281MM in 2000. That's $374MM in 2020 dollars. This figure does not include cost of Three Rivers Stadium demolition. Gillette Stadium cost $351MM in 2001, $509MM in 2020$. not including highway improvements. Patriot Place cost $356MM in 2007. $440MM in 2020$. You might as well stay at New Era than spend half a billion on an open-air stadium near a lake known for gale-force winds and lake effect snow. yes, then you do the KC stadium facelift on the cheap for 250 and everyone is off our back. Maybe a well placed wind wall or two to cut down the orchard park wind a little. I heard the stadium was originally supposed to be oriented 90 degrees from the current angle for wind blocking but they discovered a cemetery when digging. Edited June 9, 2020 by Charles Romes
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 28 minutes ago, Charles Romes said: yes, then you do the KC stadium facelift on the cheap for 250 and everyone is off our back. Maybe a well placed wind wall or two to cut down the orchard park wind a little. I heard the stadium was originally supposed to be oriented 90 degrees from the current angle for wind blocking but they discovered a cemetery when digging. I am probably the only other person on here who actually thought it was odd how they placed the field. It is called a "north south" runner because fields used to be oriented that way. A part of me wants to keep it the way it is because I love the wind, as long as I am not in the upper deck
T master Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 On 5/14/2020 at 3:55 PM, Seasons1992 said: Considering NYS is now in a $61B hole, there are two things that will happen with any new stadium: 1. Pegula's are paying for it 100%. 2. They retrofit New Era as-is. There's no way in the next 3-5 years they would consider building a brand new place. True Dat especially seeing as the state is still paying off the debt of the new Yankee's stadium, Mets new stadium, and the Nets new arena they have to wait until that is paid for and i'll along with some others will be long gone before the Bills ever see any monies for a new stadium . Thats part of why the Bills always get put on the back burner because of the black hole that is NYC . 1
machine gun kelly Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: por·tend /pôrˈtend/ Learn to pronounce verb 3rd person present: portends be a sign or warning that (something, especially something momentous or calamitous) is likely to happen. "the eclipses portend some major events" Disagree. And there are reasons why sinking a billion (and it would be a billion) into a reno is a bad idea. There will be a new stadium eventually, likely downtown, but current events have pushed that at least ten more years into the future. PTR, I agree on the 10 years thing, just not 2 years. We’ll see my friend.
Billl Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 45 minutes ago, T master said: True Dat especially seeing as the state is still paying off the debt of the new Yankee's stadium, Mets new stadium, and the Nets new arena they have to wait until that is paid for and i'll along with some others will be long gone before the Bills ever see any monies for a new stadium . Thats part of why the Bills always get put on the back burner because of the black hole that is NYC . How is NYC a black hole? They pay all the taxes.
aristocrat Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: por·tend /pôrˈtend/ Learn to pronounce verb 3rd person present: portends be a sign or warning that (something, especially something momentous or calamitous) is likely to happen. "the eclipses portend some major events" Disagree. And there are reasons why sinking a billion (and it would be a billion) into a reno is a bad idea. There will be a new stadium eventually, likely downtown, but current events have pushed that at least ten more years into the future. thank you now i'm caught up
billsfan89 Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 On 5/18/2020 at 8:51 AM, Greg S said: The Bills and their fans are better off at New Era. As a Bills fan living in NJ (also a Jets season ticket holder) I can personally say new stadiums aren't all that great. MetLife is a POS. Every Jets/Giants fan that I know would take Giants Stadium back in a NY minute. The cost of my seasons going from Giants Stadium to MetLife went from $1700 to $3700 per year. Enjoy New Era as its one of the few places where real fans can still afford to go to the games. Both the Jets-Giants lost a lot of their fans from attending as it became to expensive. Many who go are part of the corporate crowd. Neither team has a homefield advantage anymore. KC renovated Arrowhead. Chicago did the same to Soldier Field. Why can't the Bills do the same to New Era? I agree that the costs of a new stadium aren't worth the "upgrades" (most upgrades are things they charge you to experience) but MetLife is a better stadium not necessarily worth the extra money but it is better. Mainly because the Giants Stadium concourses were so small and the bathrooms so rundown. Getting out onto the concourse was always a traffic jam while the bathrooms were smelly and always clogging due to the run down plumbing of the stadium. MetLife has wider concourses and better facilities. I do agree that renovations are a better avenue for the Bill's. Cheaper and more sensible.
vincec Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) On 5/14/2020 at 5:12 PM, Just Joshin' said: The bids go in low then the change orders drive up the cost. Not 200% lol. Change orders are usually 10% or so on publicly bid projects. Reading between the lines of the article, I would guess That the $5+ billion dollar number includes the retail and entertainment district while the original $2.2 billion was just for the stadium. Edited June 9, 2020 by vincec 1
JohnC Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 11 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: por·tend /pôrˈtend/ Learn to pronounce verb 3rd person present: portends be a sign or warning that (something, especially something momentous or calamitous) is likely to happen. "the eclipses portend some major events" Disagree. And there are reasons why sinking a billion (and it would be a billion) into a reno is a bad idea. There will be a new stadium eventually, likely downtown, but current events have pushed that at least ten more years into the future. Although there has been a stall on development due to pandemic I don't see a stadium being built downtown ten or more years from now. Although there is still some open space that could eventually be developed downtown and near the waterfront steadily those areas are being filled with a variety of projects. As these smaller projects materialize there will be less adaptable locations with enough room for a large stadium to fit in. The landscape has dramatically changed from both a financial and urban development standpoint. As time goes on the city option declines.
PromoTheRobot Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, JohnC said: Although there has been a stall on development due to pandemic I don't see a stadium being built downtown ten or more years from now. Although there is still some open space that could eventually be developed downtown and near the waterfront steadily those areas are being filled with a variety of projects. As these smaller projects materialize there will be less adaptable locations with enough room for a large stadium to fit in. The landscape has dramatically changed from both a financial and urban development standpoint. As time goes on the city option declines. Here's why I think downtown is inevitable. Because the Pegulas have the start of their own Patriot Place in Canalside. A new stadium has to have a structure of retail development for a vital revenue stream. If you stay in OP you have to build that retail from scratch, so it ends up costing you more in the end, and you cannabalize your Canalside development. Edited June 10, 2020 by PromoTheRobot
SectionC3 Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Here's why I think downtown is inevitable. Because the Pegulas have the start of their own Patriot Place in Canalside. A new stadium has to have a structure of retail development for a vital revenue stream. If you stay in OP you have to build that retail from scratch, so it ends up costing you more in the end, and you cannabalize your Canalside development. Retail is dead.
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