JaCrispy Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, MJS said: He didn't manage better numbers than Allen unless you completely remove rushing stats, which is a mistake. Allen would have more passing TD's if he didn't run for TD's so much in the red zone. I don’t know that Allen is capable of throwing for many more tds than 20...he has never really proven it his whole life...we will see...if he can hit 30, I will be shocked... ps... I think he runs for tds because it’s easier for him than passing for them...just my opinion...
Doc Brown Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: Yes there is reason to debate this, Jones has a weak arm and is not accurate. He played well against a bad Buccaneers defense oh boy good for him. Josh is a far better QB and has taken us to the playoffs while the giants went 4-12 and they had to put Eli back in for the second half of the season. Jones is a career back up at best Something tells me you didn't watch a lot of Giants games as Jones gut hurt with a high ankle sprain and they had to put the decrepit Eli back in. Jones throws with better touch, accuracy, and goes through his progressions quicker than Allen. Allen has more zip on the ball and is more mobile. They both have fumbling problems but Jones's are worse. We got to the playoffs because of our defense and the Giants ranked 30th in points allowed (25th in yards allowed). I'm hoping Allen can become more consistent but I'd take Jones at this point in their careers.
MJS Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Something tells me you didn't watch a lot of Giants games as Jones gut hurt with a high ankle sprain and they had to put the decrepit Eli back in. Jones throws with better touch, accuracy, and goes through his progressions quicker than Allen. Allen has more zip on the ball and is more mobile. They both have fumbling problems but Jones's are worse. We got to the playoffs because of our defense and the Giants ranked 30th in points allowed (25th in yards allowed). I'm hoping Allen can become more consistent but I'd take Jones at this point in their careers. We can't say we got to the playoffs only because of our defense. We've had elite defenses in the past and didn't get to the playoffs because the offense held them back. The TEAM made it to the playoffs because the defense was excellent and the offense (including Allen) scored enough points. Can't have one without the other.
Doc Brown Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, MJS said: We can't say we got to the playoffs only because of our defense. We've had elite defenses in the past and didn't get to the playoffs because the offense held them back. The TEAM made it to the playoffs because the defense was excellent and the offense (including Allen) scored enough points. Can't have one without the other. We beat the Pats twice and the Browns with even just an average offense and take the AFC East. We were 23rd in ppg and 24th in ypg. We also ended up playing the 3rd easiest schedule I believe and beat one team who finished above .500. Allen improved in many areas but needs to take another step forward especially since we got him more help this offseason.
Bermuda Triangle Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 3 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Yep. No one. Jones has an equally below average receiving corps last season and still managed better numbers than Allen.... I wonder how many actually watched Daniel Jones play last season... I’m going to guess none of the people claiming Jones for Allen is stupidity. The Giants top 3 receivers last year were Sterling Shepard, Golden Tate and Saquon Barkley. The Bills top 3 receivers in '18 were Zay Jones, Lesean McCoy and Robert Foster. I understand that this is part of your shtick (as well as that of Billlll and CBiscuit), but it's gotten rather pathetic.
Franco_92 Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 6 hours ago, JaCrispy said: I would take Daniel Jones over Josh Allen straight up! He looked outstanding as a rookie, without all-Star WRs, and is only gonna get better...? I like Josh but I'm definitely not convinced he'll wind up better than Jones
Bferra13 Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 Man, reading this thread on a Bills message board is depressing. Sure seems like some people have an agenda against Josh Allen. Guess it just isnt the media. Prove em wrong Josh!
Chicken Boo Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 4 hours ago, Putin said: I don’t think Allen even scratched the surface of his potential ! I wouldn’t bet against Allen being the best QB in the league maybe even by the end of this year !! And Prescott is not close , and Jackson he’ll no !! I believe in Allen and GO BILLS !!! If Josh Allen put up Dak's numbers from 2019, you'd have him pegged for the Hall of Fame.
Hebert19 Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Considering Allen's upside and youth, it is hard to argue with trading him for much of anyone except for Watson, Jackson and/or Mahomes and still unproven Burrows. Prescott is close. Wilson, ehh maybe but he has some age on himself now. Sorry id take Jackson off that list 17 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: If Josh Allen put up Dak's numbers from 2019, you'd have him pegged for the Hall of Fame. How many wins did he have with a top 10 receiver and top 3 back plus the best oline in football? Edited May 15, 2020 by Hebert19
Captain Murica Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) Eh, I see some argument going on about taking Daniel Jones over Allen. Had this very discussion the other day. Half of my family is Giants fans and they can’t stand Jones. They believe he’s a better version of Dave Brown. They call him Dopey Dimes. They actually wanted to take Herbert or Tua this past draft and trade Jones to NE. I think he’ll end up being the guy that feasts on below average defenses to boost up the stat sheet but won’t ever be a consistent winner unless the giants build a world beater defense. I’m not an Allen stan but there are some things I personally like about the kid. But for the love of god hit a ***** deep ball ffs. As of now he’s below average and needs to be better. Edited May 15, 2020 by Captain Murica 1
Chicken Boo Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 13 hours ago, Hebert19 said: How many wins did he have with a top 10 receiver and top 3 back plus the best oline in football? Moving the goal post, are we? And the Colts have the best line in football.
GunnerBill Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 20 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Considering Allen's upside and youth, it is hard to argue with trading him for much of anyone except for Watson, Jackson and/or Mahomes and still unproven Burrows. Prescott is close. Wilson, ehh maybe but he has some age on himself now. I have Wilson as a definite and I wouldn't on Burrows standing here today. I like Burrow more coming out than I liked Josh but I have seen Josh be a reasonably successful NFL QB. My list of definite 1 for 1 trades is: Mahomes, Wilson, Watson. The two I'd think about are: Prescott (hugely underrated imo) and Jackson (if he repeats anything like last season then yes). That doesn't mean I think those are the top 5 QBs in the league or that Josh is a top 6 guy... but if I am looking at the next 5-10 years they are the names I am considering. If the question is to win ONE game played in September or even next February..... then I'd add a fair few more. 3
Protocal69 Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 On 5/14/2020 at 6:29 PM, ScottLaw said: Last year dude. Last year. Engram was hurt most of the year last season and Tate and Barkley missed a handful of games as well. They were still better than what Josh had his rookie year injuries or not
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 On 5/14/2020 at 1:57 PM, Bangarang said: However we have a pretty stacked and complete roster ready to compete for a championship right now. So keeping that in mind, if the goal is more short term in hopes of taking advantage of this roster then there are definitely better QBs that I think make that list a little longer. I think you have to look at it in the long term 10-15 year perspective. we still have to battle Mahomes in the playoffs every year so even bringing in Rodgers for say two years is no guarantee at a super bowl. Lesser QBs then Rodgers are even less a guarantee. the Rams went all in for a super bowl and ended up scoring 3points and leaving empty handed. Now their roster is starting to look expensive and not as good. They are suddenly third best in their division at best. so long term I would have Mahomes and Wilson as no brainers. I would reluctantly take Watson and Jackson and hope they stay healthy and productive. And I really like Kyler Murray last year so it would be a toss up with him.
CorkScrewHill Posted May 18, 2020 Author Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) Per Chris Simms if the trade had gone down he has been lead to believe that it would have been Josh Allen #1 to Seattle https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2020/05/buffalo-bills-qb-josh-allen-reportedly-would-have-gone-no-1-in-2018-draft-had-this-trade-occurred.html Edited May 18, 2020 by CorkScrewHill 2 1
StHustle Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 Insert Aaron Rodgers to this roster and we win a Superbowl (if we stay relatively healthy). I love Josh as much as the next guy but Dumb move not to make that trade. A proven top 5 all time QB with a few years left (had no help in GB...clearly still has it tho) VS a QB who most of us love but the jury is still out on? No brainer when you have this roster we have. If we were rebuilding then it would be a NO. Does any doubt that Brady in his prime doesnt take this team all the way???
stuvian Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 I think this was discussed in the same manner i discuss dating a Victoria's Secret model 1
DrDawkinstein Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 On 5/14/2020 at 4:34 PM, Jauronimo said: I bet Carroll was thinking about what he could do with Mayfield on a rookie deal and save $35 million to roll into skill positions and rebuilding a defense. Paying max contract to a QB makes filling out the rest of your roster difficult. On 5/14/2020 at 4:43 PM, FireChans said: I’m sure he was. And I understand the argument, I just don’t agree with it. Russ without a great team around him still put up STELLAR 18 and 19 campaigns. Baker put up good and okay numbers with a very talented Browns team (I know, Hue and Kitchens though.) Russell’s contract isn’t preventing Carroll from falling into All-Pro DB’s in the fifth round which was the real reason that team was so nasty in 2014. The other core guys were mostly drafted in the later rounds. I would put my money on Carroll being interested in Darnold. West Coast connection. USC connection. And outside of Dorsey's office, Darnold was (and still is) the best prospect of the 2018 class. Wilson is great, no denying that. But it would've been interesting if they pulled it off. Can Wilson turn Cleveland around? Does that mean Jets went with Allen at #3? Where do Bills go with Mayfield, Rosen, Jackson? 1
machine gun kelly Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 I’ve read a lot of conjecture, but the simpl3st is we trade up and if the Jets take Darnold, we take Mayfield, or the reverse. In my opinion, Mayfield is in a dysfunctional system which can contribute to him spouting off. I don’t see him doing that under McDermott. Darnold looks like he has not performed as well as Allen, but we have a top 3 defense and overhauled our offense. Again, better coaching and culture would have helped Darnold play better. Including Allen, any one these three QB’s would have a good chance for success at least in 19 and beyond.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: I’ve read a lot of conjecture, but the simpl3st is we trade up and if the Jets take Darnold, we take Mayfield, or the reverse. In my opinion, Mayfield is in a dysfunctional system which can contribute to him spouting off. I don’t see him doing that under McDermott. Darnold looks like he has not performed as well as Allen, but we have a top 3 defense and overhauled our offense. Again, better coaching and culture would have helped Darnold play better. Including Allen, any one these three QB’s would have a good chance for success at least in 19 and beyond. I would LOVE to have Darnold. I would be absolutely sick if we got stuck with Mayfield. I'd almost think at that point Beane doesnt trade up and may even trade down and take Jackson/Rudolph. Thank god it worked out like it actually did.
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