Jauronimo Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Gugny said: If the question is who I'd trade Allen for straight up: Mahomes Watson Prescott Wilson Dat's it. Mahomes Watson Wilson Rodgers This is a super bowl caliber roster with elite QB play. I'd take a 2-3 year window with an aging Rodgers for the chance to win a super bowl. I don't think Dak is that much of an upgrade. 2 1
Gugny Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Just now, Bangarang said: No Lamar? That’s interesting. I think Josh is a much better QB with far worse coaching. I'm hoping that, with the added talent on offense, Daboll will be able to somehow pry his head out of his ass and call plays that work best for the players on the field (instead of the 2007 Patriots). 2
JaCrispy Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mushypeaches said: Holy Christmas, I'd like some of what you're smoking No need my friend...just go watch the tape...and furthermore, Jones, as a rookie, was better than Allen in virtually every major statistical category... Edited May 14, 2020 by JaCrispy 1
Gugny Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Just now, Jauronimo said: Mahomes Watson Wilson Rodgers This is a super bowl caliber roster with elite QB play. I'd take a 2-3 year window with an aging Rodgers for the chance to win a super bowl. I don't think Dak is that much of an upgrade. I was on the fence on both Dak and Rodgers. My main reason for not taking Rodgers is that I think he's a team cancer. Dak has put up gaudy numbers, but I realize a lot of it has been an elite O line and Zeke Elliot. That one is a tough call for me - and I agree that any upgrade would not be significant.
RyanC883 Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 I'd only trade for Wilson or Mahomes. I also think Bridgewater is going to surprise people this year and possibly make the Pro Bowl.
Bangarang Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Gugny said: I think Josh is a much better QB with far worse coaching. I'm hoping that, with the added talent on offense, Daboll will be able to somehow pry his head out of his ass and call plays that work best for the players on the field (instead of the 2007 Patriots). A much better QB? Is this based on anything other than the fact you’re a Bills fan? It honesty sounds crazy. 2
Rico Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Josh Allen is my QB, right now I wouldn’t trade him for anyone else. GO JOSH! 1
Bangarang Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 If you’re only talking about long term prospects then the list of guys I’d trade Allen for straight is relatively small....probably like 5 guys. However we have a pretty stacked and complete roster ready to compete for a championship right now. So keeping that in mind, if the goal is more short term in hopes of taking advantage of this roster then there are definitely better QBs that I think make that list a little longer. 1
MJS Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Why’s that? 27 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Because Josh Allen is the greatest and there’s no chance another young QB could turn out better. 25 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Jones threw for more TDS and yards as a rookie than Josh in his 2nd year but trading Josh for Jones is “foolish”. ? 22 minutes ago, Bangarang said: You don’t get it, all other young QBs are trending down whereas Allen is only going to keep getting better. If there’s one thing we’ve learned from watching Bills QBs it’s that they always get better. Jones was so great he got his team to 4 wins. Josh Allen is better than Jones. He had more TD's and less INT's, oh and led his team to 6 more wins. Trading him for Jones would be idiotic. 1 1
Bangarang Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MJS said: Jones was so great he got his team to 4 wins. Josh Allen is better than Jones. He had more TD's and less INT's, oh and led his team to 6 more wins. Trading him for Jones would be idiotic. Wins aren’t a QB stat. Did you criticize Allen for only getting 5 wins as a rookie? Probably not because that would have been historically stupid. Edited May 14, 2020 by Bangarang 1
Gugny Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bangarang said: A much better QB? Is this based on anything other than the fact you’re a Bills fan? It honesty sounds crazy. It's based on watching both QBs. Lamar shocked the league with his athleticism. It was clear that by the end of the season, teams learned how to defend against him (take away the middle of the field; don't let him run). Buffalo should have beaten the Ravens and did a great job containing Jackson. Two years in a row, we've seen what playoff defenses do to him. I think he's been exposed and the Ravens' window was last year ... now shut. I think Allen is much more versatile, much smarter, will end up being more durable (Jackson won't last long running the ball that much). Jackson had a PHENOMENAL season last year and my hat's off to the young man. But he will never come close to duplicating it. Josh's ceiling is simply higher, IMO. 1
MJS Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Just now, Bangarang said: Wins aren’t a QB stat. Did you criticize Allen for only getting us to get 6 wins as a rookie? Probably not because that would have been historically stupid. QB is BY FAR the most important position in football and for winning games. Would you have traded Allen for Mayfield after their rookie years? Probably. But after another year that trade looks stupid. Similarly, it would be silly to trade for Jones after his rookie year especially since his stats were not better than Allen's. 14 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: No need my friend...just go watch the tape...? How much "tape" have you watched?
Bangarang Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: It's based on watching both QBs. Lamar shocked the league with his athleticism. It was clear that by the end of the season, teams learned how to defend against him (take away the middle of the field; don't let him run). Buffalo should have beaten the Ravens and did a great job containing Jackson. Two years in a row, we've seen what playoff defenses do to him. We could have beaten Baltimore, unfortunately Allen was horrible and overwhelmed by the Ravens defense. They admitted their plan was to make him be a QB. 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: I think he's been exposed and the Ravens' window was last year ... now shut. How was he exposed? He had a higher passer rating and threw significantly more TDs during the second half of the season. 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: I think Allen is much more versatile, much smarter, will end up being more durable (Jackson won't last long running the ball that much). Versatile in what way? Smarter how? Allen has already suffered a concussion running with the ball and running is also a major part of Allen’s game so it won’t and shouldn’t be taken away. Not sure how you can make such a definitive statement about Jackson’s durability compared to Allen’s. 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: Jackson had a PHENOMENAL season last year and my hat's off to the young man. But he will never come close to duplicating it. Josh's ceiling is simply higher, IMO. How is Allen’s ceiling higher when he’s never shown an ability to play at that high of a level? With Lamar, he’s shown us elite level production. With Allen, it’s still about potential. When you consider Allen’s ceiling, what kind of stats is he putting up?
Gugny Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bangarang said: We could have beaten Baltimore, unfortunately Allen was horrible and overwhelmed by the Ravens defense. They admitted their plan was to make him be a QB. How was he exposed? He had a higher passer rating and threw significantly more TDs during the second half of the season. Versatile in what way? Smarter how? Allen has already suffered a concussion running with the ball and running is also a major part of Allen’s game so it won’t and shouldn’t be taken away. Not sure how you can make such a definitive statement about Jackson’s durability compared to Allen’s. How is Allen’s ceiling higher when he’s never shown an ability to play at that high of a level? With Lamar, he’s shown us elite level production. With Allen, it’s still about potential. When you consider Allen’s ceiling, what kind of stats is he putting up? Stats? I'm not using any stats. I'm looking at one QB who is a running back who throws dead accurate 4-feet-in-the-air passes to TEs in the middle of the field. And I'm looking at another QB who is a consistent long ball away from being a superstar. 3
Bangarang Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, MJS said: QB is BY FAR the most important position in football and for winning games. Wins still aren’t a QB stat and just blindly throwing them out there with literally no other context is stupid. Quote Would you have traded Allen for Mayfield after their rookie years? Probably. But after another year that trade looks stupid. Are we judging QBs based on a one year sample size now? Do we not take coaching into consideration? Do you think Freddie Kitchens was a good coach and maximized all the talent his team had? Did Mayfield suddenly become less talented? Does context matter at all to you? Quote Similarly, it would be silly to trade for Jones after his rookie year especially since his stats were not better than Allen's. One could easily argue that in regards to rookie years, Daniel Jones was by far better than Allen. Even Jones’ rookie stats weren’t far off from Allen’s sophomore season and I’m sure the Giants are only expecting him to get better. It’s probably not as silly as you think.
Chandler#81 Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 26 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Wins aren’t a QB stat. Did you criticize Allen for only getting 5 wins as a rookie? Probably not because that would have been historically stupid. ??????????????????????????????????? i actually agree completely with this. But the majority of members here either completely disagree to the point of sleepless nights or quickly use it to argue against it. It all depends on the day and whether meds had been dispensed yet. 1
Motorin' Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Bangarang said: We could have beaten Baltimore, unfortunately Allen was horrible and overwhelmed by the Ravens defense. They admitted their plan was to make him be a QB. How was he exposed? He had a higher passer rating and threw significantly more TDs during the second half of the season. Versatile in what way? Smarter how? Allen has already suffered a concussion running with the ball and running is also a major part of Allen’s game so it won’t and shouldn’t be taken away. Not sure how you can make such a definitive statement about Jackson’s durability compared to Allen’s. How is Allen’s ceiling higher when he’s never shown an ability to play at that high of a level? With Lamar, he’s shown us elite level production. With Allen, it’s still about potential. When you consider Allen’s ceiling, what kind of stats is he putting up? I thought Jackson's performance last season was one of the best all-time individual seasons. With that said, the Bills' sort of wrote the book ok how to contain him. I wouldn't be surprised to see him regress, and with his running style he's just one hit away from serious trouble. I can see JA growing into a 4000 yard, 30 TD qb on a yearly basis. Edited May 14, 2020 by Motorin' 2
Bangarang Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 15 minutes ago, Gugny said: Stats? I'm not using any stats. I'm looking at one QB who is a running back who throws dead accurate 4-feet-in-the-air passes to TEs in the middle of the field. And I'm looking at another QB who is a consistent long ball away from being a superstar. Can you provide any kind of substance as to how Allen has a higher ceiling? If it’s just based on hope because you’re a Bills fan then I’d even take that. And calling Lamar a RB after having an elite MVP season as a QB is so ignorant. Just to clarify, because Allen may one day be a superstar, he’s clearly superior to the guy who proved he already was one? Got it...
Gugny Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Just now, Bangarang said: Can you provide any kind of substance as to how Allen has a higher ceiling? If it’s just based on hope because you’re a Bills fan then I’d even take that. And calling Lamar a RB after having an elite MVP season as a QB is so ignorant. Just to clarify, because Allen may one day be a superstar, he’s clearly superior to the guy who proved he already was one? Got it... Not acknowledging that Lamar Jackson is a RB is silly. I've given you as much substance as I choose to. I've watch both players in multiple games and I'd rather have Josh Allen as my long-term QB than Lamar Jackson. Again ... Jackson had a fantastic season. My opinion is simply that he'll never come close to doing it again and that if we fast forward to 2025, Josh Allen will be a top 5 QB in the league and Jackson will be a backup. Again .. my opinion. My opinion is based on the eye test and history. Because history has given us a lot of running QBs who've had limited regular season success and short-lived careers as starters. Josh will be better. Period.
Bangarang Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, Motorin' said: I thought Jackson's performance last season was one of the best all-time individual seasons. With that said, the Bills' sort of wrote the book ok how to contain him. I wouldn't be surprised to see him regress, and with his running style he's just one hit away from serious trouble. Allen is just one hit away from serious trouble too.. Quote I can see JA growing into a 4000 yard, 30 TD qb on a yearly basis. He definitely has the talent to do it. 1
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