Josh Norman discusses expectations for Bills on TMZ

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

So you'd sign Cam just in case that happens?  Why wouldn't, say, the Cheaters, or the Jets, or the Browns, or the Raiders do that as well?

The Pats can’t afford him like you’ve said a trillion times.

 

I don’t know if I’d sign Cam in case that happens. I don’t know if I’d even WANT it to happen. I’d rather win or lose with Josh and know where things stand going into year 4.

 

The Jets and Browns are in similar camps. Gruden seems to like Carr or so he says so I can’t comment on the Raiders. 

 

I’m torn on the point tbh. Especially since we have no idea what Cam has left in the tank.

[Mr. K]

I think he will be 1 and done with us. I hope he has solid production and passes on some knowledge to the youngsters. I hope he gets back into  for,. Obviously he isnt getting any younger so I hope he finds his way quick and delivers what he thinks he can.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He played for Carolina. ? Did Norman or even Butler strike you as “process” guys? 

 

Yes.  But OK, how much money would you put on them contacting Cam?

 

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

The Pats can’t afford him like you’ve said a trillion times.

 

I don’t know if I’d sign Cam in case that happens. I don’t know if I’d even WANT it to happen. I’d rather win or lose with Josh and know where things stand going into year 4.

 

The Jets and Browns are in similar camps. Gruden seems to like Carr or so he says so I can’t comment on the Raiders. 

 

I’m torn on the point tbh. Especially since we have no idea what Cam has left in the tank.

 

I never said the Cheaters can't afford him.  I said they can make deep cuts that will leave their team worse but they likely won't.

 

And if Cam signs anywhere, it will be for 1-year I bet.  The best course of action is to let Josh prove himself one way or another this year and then go from there.

[Kmart128]

On 5/13/2020 at 9:35 AM, QB Bills said:

It's funny how he actually scratches his head when he says that Newton not being on a team is a headscratcher. 

 

CB2 is the biggest position of concern on the team (other than QB if Allen regresses) so if Norman can turn back the clock a bit, this defense will be even better this year. 

 

I dont see how it is...

 

We have Josh Norman. Former all pro CB... switching back to Sean scheme should vastly improve what he did with Redskins

 

We have Levi Wallace. Started the past 2 years and our secondary has still be incredible. Levi is worst case scenario and he isnt even bad. He is a solid player. He goes through temporary lapses during course of season but thats true for many players.  We could do a lot worse than Levi.

 

We have EJ Gaines. Started for us a few years back. When he plays he is really  good. Injuries have been an issue. 

 

Chances are one of these CB will win the job and play well. The chances of having 3 CB who have proven to be successful in the past all fail during the same season is very unlikely 

[GunnerBill]

On 5/14/2020 at 6:12 PM, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

If the question of who you want to be your back up is based squarely on skill and ability, Cam is the obvious choice. But there is more to it than that. Other issues include their presence in the QB room, relationship to the team on the whole, and ability to not become a side show.  Cam is better, but its unclear he is so much better his talent would outweigh the sideshow he would become and impact he would have on the QB room.  

 

And this is really what I don't get. You are totally right in how most NFL teams view it. But they shouldn't. Ryan Tannehill, Teddy Bridgewater and Nick Foles in recent years surely prove that your single goal should be to have the most talented backup you can afford. And I do take the point that Cam is a personality off the field and you have to accept that when you sign him.... but man if you need your backup to play 4 games and it is a choice between Cam and Matt Barkley or Cam and Chase Daniels or Cam and Mike Glennon then every franchise in the NFL should want Cam. And as for the personality thing wasn't that argument levelled at RG3 too? "He is a diva, he will be a distraction". How much did he distract Baltimore's 13-3 season? It baffles me the NFL approach to backup QBs. And it isn't just Cam Newton either. Joe Flacco and Blake Bortles who have both proven they can play in this league are unsigned while some absolute scrubs are in line to be #2 QBs. I find it utterly nonsensical.

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

And this is really what I don't get. You are totally right in how most NFL teams view it. But they shouldn't. Ryan Tannehill, Teddy Bridgewater and Nick Foles in recent years surely prove that your single goal should be to have the most talented backup you can afford. And I do take the point that Cam is a personality off the field and you have to accept that when you sign him.... but man if you need your backup to play 4 games and it is a choice between Cam and Matt Barkley or Cam and Chase Daniels or Cam and Mike Glennon then every franchise in the NFL should want Cam. And as for the personality thing wasn't that argument levelled at RG3 too? "He is a diva, he will be a distraction". How much did he distract Baltimore's 13-3 season? It baffles me the NFL approach to backup QBs. And it isn't just Cam Newton either. Joe Flacco and Blake Bortles who have both proven they can play in this league are unsigned while some absolute scrubs are in line to be #2 QBs. I find it utterly nonsensical.

 

The huge difference is that RT, TB and NF (at the time) weren't being paid much to be backups, were never NFL MVP's, much less took their teams to the SB.  If Cam wants to be a backup in Buffalo for even $5M (which is more than any of those guys got), I'd be all for it.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Doc

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And this is really what I don't get. You are totally right in how most NFL teams view it. But they shouldn't. Ryan Tannehill, Teddy Bridgewater and Nick Foles in recent years surely prove that your single goal should be to have the most talented backup you can afford. And I do take the point that Cam is a personality off the field and you have to accept that when you sign him.... but man if you need your backup to play 4 games and it is a choice between Cam and Matt Barkley or Cam and Chase Daniels or Cam and Mike Glennon then every franchise in the NFL should want Cam. And as for the personality thing wasn't that argument levelled at RG3 too? "He is a diva, he will be a distraction". How much did he distract Baltimore's 13-3 season? It baffles me the NFL approach to backup QBs. And it isn't just Cam Newton either. Joe Flacco and Blake Bortles who have both proven they can play in this league are unsigned while some absolute scrubs are in line to be #2 QBs. I find it utterly nonsensical.

Fan and internal pressure. Most QB’s aren’t secure enough to get through half of a poor season.

 

Foles is the perfect example. Wentz struggled the next season, Foles had to step in, and the QB controversy was on.

 

Chase Daniels doesn’t bring that with him.

Edited May 15, 2020 by FireChans

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Fan and internal pressure. Most QB’s aren’t secure enough to get through half of a poor season.

 

Foles is the perfect example. Wentz struggled the next season, Foles had to step in, and the QB controversy was on.

 

Chase Daniels doesn’t bring that with him.

 

Chase doesn't bring any wins either though. 

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The huge difference is that RT, TB and NF (at the time) weren't being paid much to be backups, were never NFL MVP's, much less took their teams to the SB.  If Cam wants to be a backup in Buffalo for even $5M (which is more than any of those guys got), I'd be all for it.

 

This isn't about Cam or about Buffalo for me. It is about the NFL. It is pure stupidity. They take less talented scrubs because they don't have "baggage". It is such nonsensical thinking and no evidence points to it being a better approach. 

[GoBills808]

On 5/14/2020 at 10:56 AM, Doc said:

 

Why?  Does Cam strike you as a "process" guy?

He actually does, by accounts. It's not how he's portrayed but teammates and coaches love the guy.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Chase doesn't bring any wins either though. 

I hear what you’re saying and I agree. I’m just saying if you bring in Cam to a team like the Jets, or the Browns, if Baker/Darnold struggle for the first six games, there will be some pressure to switch QB’s. That doesn’t exist nearly as much with Barkley or Chase.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

I hear what you’re saying and I agree. I’m just saying if you bring in Cam to a team like the Jets, or the Browns, if Baker/Darnold struggle for the first six games, there will be some pressure to switch QB’s. That doesn’t exist nearly as much with Barkley or Chase.

 

It is such about face thinking. "Yea we better make sure our backup sucks in case our starter sucks." It is how you end up with that thoroughly depressing list of NFL backups we discussed last week. 

[GunnerBill]

On 5/14/2020 at 9:56 PM, Doc said:

 

So you'd sign Cam just in case that happens?  Why wouldn't, say, the Cheaters, or the Jets, or the Browns, or the Raiders do that as well?

 

So the Raiders can be excluded from this. They have signed Mariota. Mariota can play in the NFL. He has won playoff games as a starter. He isn't "the answer" for anyone but they haven't decided to ride with scrubs in case Carr fails this year the way they did last year. 

 

Cleveland and New England have two of the top end backups in the NFL in Keenum and Hoyer. Neither of them are Cam but those two guys have led teams to the post season too, Keenum as far as an NFCCG. Neither of those are guys who I go "okay if they have to play 4 games your season is sunk." 

 

But the Jets? Their backup QB as we stand here today is David freaking Fales. A man whose only serious NFL game experience was vs the Bills in week 17 of 2017 as a Dolphin. He sucks. He totally sucks. You could argue (like the Bills) well they took a QB on day 3 of the draft and maybe he becomes the backup straight away. Maybe so. But my word.... Cam Newton, Blake Bortles and Joe Flacco sit out there while a team is legitimately pointing at David Fales and saying "that is our plan B". It is vomit inducing. And if you are a team planning to ride with Logan Woodside (Titans) or Jeff Driskel (Broncos) or Josh Dobbs (Jaguars) then you are in the exact same boat. If any of those 3 or Fales or Barkley play 4 games your team is sunk. If the honest reason for those teams not having better options is because they don't want to put pressure on Allen or Darnold or Minshew or Lock in case they fall on their face, or Tannehill in case he turns back into a pumpkin then if those guys have to play 4 games and their team misses the playoffs as a result those GMs should be fired. 

 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

So the Raiders can be excluded from this. They have signed Mariota. Mariota can play in the NFL. He has won playoff games as a starter. He isn't "the answer" for anyone but they haven't decided to ride with scrubs in case Carr fails this year the way they did last year. 

 

Cleveland and New England have two of the top end backups in the NFL in Keenum and Hoyer. Neither of them are Cam but those two guys have led teams to the post season too, Keenum as far as an NFCCG. Neither of those are guys who I go "okay if they have to play 4 games your season is sunk." 

 

But the Jets? Their backup QB as we stand here today is David freaking Fales. A man whose only serious NFL game experience was vs the Bills in week 17 of 2017 as a Dolphin. He sucks. He totally sucks. You could argue (like the Bills) well they took a QB on day 3 of the draft and maybe he becomes the backup straight away. Maybe so. But my word.... Cam Newton, Blake Bortles and Joe Flacco sit out there while a team is legitimately pointing at David Fales and saying "that is our plan B". It is vomit inducing. And if you are a team planning to ride with Logan Woodside (Titans) or Jeff Driskel (Broncos) or Josh Dobbs (Jaguars) then you are in the exact same boat. If any of those 3 or Fales or Barkley play 4 games your team is sunk. If the honest reason for those teams not having better options is because they don't want to put pressure on Allen or Darnold or Minshew or Lock in case they fall on their face, or Tannehill in case he turns back into a pumpkin then if those guys have to play 4 games and their team misses the playoffs as a result those GMs should be fired.

 

Without knowing what Cam wants in salary, I can't speak to his situation.  All I've heard is he doesn't want to be a backup.  Again if he agree to play for cheap, bring him on.

 

As for Flacco, I think he's done.  Bortles would be an interesting add and I doubt there would be much clamor for him to start if Josh sucked.  But he, like most of the backups, even the top end ones, are just bandaids should the QB's falter.  Mariota isn't the future in Vegas.  Same goes for Hoyer or Keenum.  And Tannehill still needs to prove he can do it year after year.

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Without knowing what Cam wants in salary, I can't speak to his situation.  All I've heard is he doesn't want to be a backup.  Again if he agree to play for cheap, bring him on.

 

As for Flacco, I think he's done.  Bortles would be an interesting add and I doubt there would be much clamor for him to start if Josh sucked.  But he, like most of the backups, even the top end ones, are just bandaids should the QB's falter.  Mariota isn't the future in Vegas.  Same goes for Hoyer or Keenum.  And Tannehill still needs to prove he can do it year after year.

 

Agreed, nobody is arguing those guys are the future. That isn't the argument. The argument is those guys don't sink your season. There are only about half a dozen backups who, if a starter went down in camp, can come in and play a 16 game schedule and not sink your season. Dalton, Winston, Mariota, Brissett, Keenum and depending on who you consider starters in their cities Fitz and Tyrod. 

 

There is then a category of guys who can get you through maybe 4 games: Hoyer, RGIII, Kyle Allen maybe Mason Rudolph and Nick Mullens. Then there is Jordan Love who is less a backup and more a starter in waiting and then there are the rest who suck. 

 

As for Cam... I think originally he was against taking a backup job because there were open starter jobs. I understand his stance has softened as they have each been filled. Bortles is a better bet than everyone in my second group and Joe Flacco, while certainly done as a starter, still played well enough that if he still wants to play he is easily a top end backup. The reason these guys are unsigned is NFL GMs love the "don't rock the boat, be a good pro" solid vets who suck but are good in the room. Well great. Until they need to play. If I am an owner and I end up in a situation where I am having to start Jeff Driskel then I am asking my General Manager for an explanation of why. And if he wants to keep his job it better be good. 

[Doc]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Agreed, nobody is arguing those guys are the future. That isn't the argument. The argument is those guys don't sink your season. There are only about half a dozen backups who, if a starter went down in camp, can come in and play a 16 game schedule and not sink your season. Dalton, Winston, Mariota, Brissett, Keenum and depending on who you consider starters in their cities Fitz and Tyrod. 

 

There is then a category of guys who can get you through maybe 4 games: Hoyer, RGIII, Kyle Allen maybe Mason Rudolph and Nick Mullens. Then there is Jordan Love who is less a backup and more a starter in waiting and then there are the rest who suck. 

 

As for Cam... I think originally he was against taking a backup job because there were open starter jobs. I understand his stance has softened as they have each been filled. Bortles is a better bet than everyone in my second group and Joe Flacco, while certainly done as a starter, still played well enough that if he still wants to play he is easily a top end backup. The reason these guys are unsigned is NFL GMs love the "don't rock the boat, be a good pro" solid vets who suck but are good in the room. Well great. Until they need to play. If I am an owner and I end up in a situation where I am having to start Jeff Driskel then I am asking my General Manager for an explanation of why. And if he wants to keep his job it better be good. 

 

Eh...I disagree on many of those.  If you're counting on Brissett, Keenum,  Mariota, Fitz and Tyrod for a full season, your season is likely toast, meaning no playoffs.  They've been relegated to backup status for a reason.  Dalton I'd say yes as he's taken the Bungles to the playoffs many times and has a good offense around him in Dallas.  Winston is a maybe because he's also got a good offense around him but is a turnover machine. 

 

Can those and the other guys you mentioned not sink your season in a 4-game stretch?  Probably, but depends on the schedule.  I think they beat the bad teams and lose to the good teams.  I think that with the way the team is now, Barkley could not sink the Bills' season in a 4-game stretch, but definitely in a 16-game one.

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Eh...I disagree on many of those.  If you're counting on Brissett, Keenum,  Mariota, Fitz and Tyrod for a full season, your season is likely toast, meaning no playoffs.  They've been relegated to backup status for a reason.  Dalton I'd say yes as he's taken the Bungles to the playoffs many times and has a good offense around him in Dallas.  Winston is a maybe because he's also got a good offense around him but is a turnover machine. 

 

Can those and the other guys you mentioned not sink your season in a 4-game stretch?  Probably, but depends on the schedule.  I think they beat the bad teams and lose to the good teams.  I think that with the way the team is now, Barkley could not sink the Bills' season in a 4-game stretch, but definitely in a 16-game one.

 

Mariota and Keenum have taken teams to the playoffs as well. Maybe you are right on Brissett. He probably belongs in the Hoyer group. 

 

And if Barkley plays 4 games the Bills are going 1-3 at absolute best in those games. He is not very good.  I think he sinks your season. 

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

With this schedule?

 

Barkley could absolutely sink the Bills season if Allen is out for 4 games or more. I’d bet on it. 

 

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Mariota and Keenum have taken teams to the playoffs as well. Maybe you are right on Brissett. He probably belongs in the Hoyer group. 

 

And if Barkley plays 4 games the Bills are going 1-3 at absolute best in those games. He is not very good.  I think he sinks your season. 

 

OK, maybe Mariota as he took his team to 9-7 3 years and the playoffs once.  Keenum was a 1-year flash in the pan.

 

As for Barkley, it depends on what part of the schedule.  And I'm not sure that even 1-3 sinks the season.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Doc said:

 

 

OK, maybe Mariota as he took his team to 9-7 3 years and the playoffs once.  Keenum was a 1-year flash in the pan.

 

As for Barkley, it depends on what part of the schedule.  And I'm not sure that even 1-3 sinks the season.

 

Yea, I think you think Barkley is closer to the good backups than he is. 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Yea, I think you think Barkley is closer to the good backups than he is. 

 

Again, with this offense.  Last year's...not so much.  But again I'd be fine with kicking the tires on someone else.  And if Fromm shows anything, I'd roll with him.  I think that if Josh gets hurt, it will either be a game or two he misses or most of the season. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Doc