Balanced article on Josh - key takeaway .. he was and is a project

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Hardhatharry said:

Ok... Year 3 so he isn't allowed to be a "Project" anymore. They said nothing that hasn't been said a million times already but sure let's make a new article.

 

 

What you decide he is or isn't allowed to be is 100% beside the point. It's what he actually is that is the only important thing.

 

They're right that he needs to improve this year. They're also right that he's a project currently, and that's pretty likely to be an ongoing thing for a while. This was an excellent point from the article, "He doesn’t even have two full seasons worth of games under his belt at the NFL level. Allen has less games under his belt in the NFL than Baker Mayfield and Lamar Jackson had in college alone." That's a great observation. Mayfield played 48 games in college alone, and at a higher level, and then 30 in the pros, while Allen played in 27 games at a lower level at Wyoming, and seven before that at Reedley JUCO, an even lower level.

 

Of course he's still developing. And yet with all that extra time and work behind him, Mayfield regressed and showed he needed development also.

 

Fans want to deny that development may be needed because some guys don't need it. They say that because fans are impatient these days it's no longer time that guys are allowed. Not true. Some guys still need it. And the smarter teams go by the needs of the QB, no matter whether the fans get impatient. Fan impatience is totally understandable, but it's like getting mad at bad weather. Some years are good. Some aren't. Some QBs need time. Some don't. Aaron Rodgers, Alex Smith and Eli Manning are guys who needed time. And were given it. Eli for one didn't see the light come on till the last two or three games of his fourth year. Hell, Brady wasn't the player he's become till around 2005 - 2006.

 

Some guys take time. If we're very very lucky, our guy will have made huge strides in the offseason and be past his development stage. But that's very unlikely, especially with how this offseason is, um, developing.

 

 

[whorlnut]

2 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

Ok... Year 3 so he isn't allowed to be a "Project" anymore. They said nothing that hasn't been said a million times already but sure let's make a new article.

Not true. A lot of these guys are drafted as four year projects. Like it or not, that’s exactly what Allen is. He’s ahead of the curve so far and let’s hope he continues to trend up...

[JESSEFEFFER]

How much more of a "project" is he?  Josh Rosen was the consensus "most pro ready" QB of the 2018 draft.  How is that project going? Is Sam Darnold closer to being a finished product?  Is that project further along?   

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

All true, although I really can’t consider any team an “easy” SB contender. The vast majority of reasonable fans would view Allen in this light, with the unrealistic “he’s a first ballot HOFer” crowd and the “he’s a bum” crowd on the fringes. 

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I have found that the type of people that say things like, "no more excuses" are also generally not well read.  I wouldn't be surprised if you had never come across this bit of commentary. 

How about some more ridiculous generalizations to chuckle over while I enjoy my morning coffee 

[iinii]

2 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

Here we go more excuses....

If it did they wouldn't be talking about taking preseason games away, these same coaches would be playing starters in preseason games for more practice. 

 

Basic logic, homie.

No they wouldn’t.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You not wanting JA to have any excuses does not mean that the practices do not matter. They do matter.  For example, it is widely considered that the stark decline in O-Line play is directly correlated with the decrease in padded practices. 

No it isnt. It is believed to be the fact that most college offenses run a spread offense that looks nothing like a pro style offense. Has nothing to do with pads. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

49 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

"He doesn’t even have two full seasons worth of games under his belt at the NFL level. Allen has less games under his belt in the NFL than Baker Mayfield and Lamar Jackson had in college alone." That's a great observation. Mayfield played 48 games in college alone, and at a higher level, and then 30 in the pros, while Allen played in 27 games at a lower level at Wyoming, and seven before that at Reedley JUCO, an even lower level.

 

The old EJ Manuel sliding scale. 

 

Well the plan wasn't for him to start right away (well Kevin Kolb and Nate Peterman aren't real plans, so...)

Well he doesn't have a full 16 games yet (Allen hurt in 2018)

Well Allen didn't have the OTA reps, not looking over his shoulder in Training Camp, 2nd year in the system, an OLine that has "gelled", another year with the OC

Well he doesn't have a full 32 games yet

 

Allen gets 2018 from me. He was a rookie, with dreadful skill positions, a poor offensive line, and a Coaching staff that wanted to win games 17-13.

 

In 2019, he got improved weapons, at least to an NFL standard, a better line, a second year in the same system with the same OC and all the reps in OTAs and TC. 

 

In 2020, he needs to make the jump from a game manager, to a difference maker on the NFL scale, not just in comparison to his Wyoming or 2018 rookie self. 

 

There have been ideas around here that 2021 is the real year, but we all know that in sports, you better win when you have the chance. You're not guaranteed to keep bringing the same team back again.  

[Mickey]

"no more excuses"??? What excuses are those, something like, "excuse me for making the playoffs in my second year with two weeks to spare"?

 

How about "no excuses" for those who pronounced Josh to be a bust before he was even drafted or those who still can't get over the Bills passing on Josh Rosen? They were wrong then, they are wrong now and and though they live for the day to say "I told you so" that day will never come. 

 

Josh is a young, hard working, fearless QB whose best days are ahead and who will get better every game leaving the naysayers and the "he is terrible but oh, gee, I really want him to be good" crowd weeping into their completion percentage security blanket. Thumbsucking Linuses the lot of them.

 

And NO, the quarantine is NOT making me cranky (&(*&*^%$$#)&!!!! 

[Don Otreply]

2 minutes ago, Mickey said:

"no more excuses"??? What excuses are those, something like, "excuse me for making the playoffs in my second year with two weeks to spare"?

 

How about "no excuses" for those who pronounced Josh to be a bust before he was even drafted or those who still can't get over the Bills passing on Josh Rosen? They were wrong then, they are wrong now and and though they live for the day to say "I told you so" that day will never come. 

 

Josh is a young, hard working, fearless QB whose best days are ahead and who will get better every game leaving the naysayers and the "he is terrible but oh, gee, I really want him to be good" crowd weeping into their completion percentage security blanket. Thumbsucking Linuses the lot of them.

 

And NO, the quarantine is NOT making me cranky (&(*&*^%$$#)&!!!! 

Well the quarantine may not be making you cranky, but it sure as hell is making my wife cranky...

[BuffaninSarasota]

2 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

Nope I didn't quote myself. But thanks for adding to it.

No I didn't. Time to put you on ignore.

 

You two need to get a room ....?

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

No it isnt. It is believed to be the fact that most college offenses run a spread offense that looks nothing like a pro style offense. Has nothing to do with pads. 

That's part of it, admittedly; however, its eacerbated because they don't get the practices necessary to teach them the new technique. I cite to several articles below that say as much. 

1 hour ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

All true, although I really can’t consider any team an “easy” SB contender. The vast majority of reasonable fans would view Allen in this light, with the unrealistic “he’s a first ballot HOFer” crowd and the “he’s a bum” crowd on the fringes. 

How about some more ridiculous generalizations to chuckle over while I enjoy my morning coffee 

 

Its a generalization that just always seems to come true. 

[stinky finger]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

breaking news...

 

Oh no - not again?!?!

[NoHuddleKelly12]

 

4 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

Wrong again. I just don't care about your bull####. Already showed you were wrong stop hijacking this thread and make your own.

 

Numbers are not suffering offensive lines are just as good as they always been and yet you pretend like it's b.c they don't have more "Hitting practices" if that was true numbers would be suffering yet they are better now then they ever been.

Isn't that an opinion also? 

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The old EJ Manuel sliding scale. 

 

Well the plan wasn't for him to start right away (well Kevin Kolb and Nate Peterman aren't real plans, so...)

Well he doesn't have a full 16 games yet (Allen hurt in 2018)

Well Allen didn't have the OTA reps, not looking over his shoulder in Training Camp, 2nd year in the system, an OLine that has "gelled", another year with the OC

Well he doesn't have a full 32 games yet

 

Allen gets 2018 from me. He was a rookie, with dreadful skill positions, a poor offensive line, and a Coaching staff that wanted to win games 17-13.

 

In 2019, he got improved weapons, at least to an NFL standard, a better line, a second year in the same system with the same OC and all the reps in OTAs and TC. 

 

In 2020, he needs to make the jump from a game manager, to a difference maker on the NFL scale, not just in comparison to his Wyoming or 2018 rookie self. 

 

There have been ideas around here that 2021 is the real year, but we all know that in sports, you better win when you have the chance. You're not guaranteed to keep bringing the same team back again.  

It's as if he did nothing to help this team make the 2019 playoffs in his 2nd year, first as FT starter.  Besides being the first NFL Qb to lose a game in 3 different countries, how close did EJ come to delivering playoffs?

[dollars 2 donuts]

20 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

 

Isn't that an opinion also? 

It's as if he did nothing to help this team make the 2019 playoffs in his 2nd year, first as FT starter.  Besides being the first NFL Qb to lose a game in 3 different countries, how close did EJ come to delivering playoffs?

 

 

Few words...and that's all that was needed.

 

A home run is only a single swing.  Nicely put, HUDs.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

 

Isn't that an opinion also? 

It's as if he did nothing to help this team make the 2019 playoffs in his 2nd year, first as FT starter.  Besides being the first NFL Qb to lose a game in 3 different countries, how close did EJ come to delivering playoffs?

One minute he delivered us to the Playoffs (have to acknowledge a weak schedule and a defense that allowed 16.2 ppg), the next minute he's still raw. 

 

Yes we made the Playoffs. But just like the 10-3 loss in Jacksonville, it's a moral victory because it's another game that we should have won, but couldn't score enough points. 

 

Practice time should be over in 2020. He'll once again have any starter reps that may come in a TC, he'll cross the 32 games started mark, he'll have the same HC and OC for 3 years, improved skill players, same offensive line. I think Allen gets romanticized around here too much. 

 

Yes, the moments were awesome - Cowboys on Thanksgiving, his peak, the clincher against the Steelers on SNF - great to silence those fans, the no interception streak. 

 

But if he is a Franchise QB, there shouldn't have to be disclaimers anymore. Nobody is demanding Super Bowl titles. The highest bar I could set is just getting one Playoff win. But we romanticize his standing in the league and exaggerate his improvement. 

 

If he goes out and throws for 4,000 yards and 28 TDs, then we're on our way. That's what we have to see from Allen. In 1990, 3,000 and 20 TDs was a solid year. That's bottom tier NFL starter now. 

 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

This article is just so much bull####.  Josh Allen is a leader and a winner.  That's what we need in a QB.  JA is my QB, for better or worse.  

[GoBills808]

14 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

One minute he delivered us to the Playoffs (have to acknowledge a weak schedule and a defense that allowed 16.2 ppg), the next minute he's still raw. 

 

Yes we made the Playoffs. But just like the 10-3 loss in Jacksonville, it's a moral victory because it's another game that we should have won, but couldn't score enough points. 

 

Practice time should be over in 2020. He'll once again have any starter reps that may come in a TC, he'll cross the 32 games started mark, he'll have the same HC and OC for 3 years, improved skill players, same offensive line. I think Allen gets romanticized around here too much. 

 

Yes, the moments were awesome - Cowboys on Thanksgiving, his peak, the clincher against the Steelers on SNF - great to silence those fans, the no interception streak. 

 

But if he is a Franchise QB, there shouldn't have to be disclaimers anymore. Nobody is demanding Super Bowl titles. The highest bar I could set is just getting one Playoff win. But we romanticize his standing in the league and exaggerate his improvement. 

 

If he goes out and throws for 4,000 yards and 28 TDs, then we're on our way. That's what we have to see from Allen. In 1990, 3,000 and 20 TDs was a solid year. That's bottom tier NFL starter now. 

 

 

Yeah that's not an unreasonable standard at all, a whopping 3 quarterbacks managed that last year

[billsfan89]

Josh was always a raw prospect and he has looked raw at times. I always thought this team was best suited to sit him for 1-2 seasons before launching him into action. But McD bungled the 2018 QB situation so they forced him in early and all his flaws and positives showed. In 2019 he made a huge step forward but still has a lot of progress he needs to make. Josh played like a mid-level type NFL QB last season factoring in his rushing. He was sloppy with turnovers early but cut that down, he was very good at the short and intermediate range passing but couldn't get the long range accuracy down. 

 

Josh needs to tighten up the short and intermediate game some more (just needs to be somewhat more consistent with his footwork and touch), get that long range accuracy down, and process the game quicker in order to throw with anticipation. Can he do all of that? Hard to tell, he made tremendous progress on the short and mid-range passing last season and he seemed to make some progress on his footwork. But he has a lot he needs to work on. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

27 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yeah that's not an unreasonable standard at all, a whopping 3 quarterbacks managed that last year

Well since you bashed Bill yesterday for speaking in hyperbole. 

 

I guess I can throw it right back at you. 

 

It's not like that is the firm line that will be accepted. It's more like what season would put the questions away. 

 

3,300 yards and 22 TDs is borderline (that's Gardner Minshew as a rookie). He probably needs something like 3,600 yards and 25 TDs. Something that gets you out of 193 ypg and 1.5 TDs game. 

 

Allen was 23rd in yards (30th in ypg), 32nd in completion percentage, 24th in rating and tied for 21st in TDs. He has to get out of the bottom third because we all know you can't count on elite defense carrying over year and year. What the 2012-2015 Seahawks did was the exception to the rule. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Dopey]

6 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Tell me more...

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-nfl-offensive-line-crisis-20170913-story.html

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiDkbrH17DpAhVEK80KHSgYBaEQFjAAegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theringer.com%2Fnfl%2F2017%2F11%2F2%2F16596392%2Foffensive-line-crisis-league-midseason&usg=AOvVaw0jOne0FW9jieVNnk1uUyCw

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiDkbrH17DpAhVEK80KHSgYBaEQFjABegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Farticles%2F2463172-lack-of-offensive-line-development-in-nfl-falls-on-league-coaches&usg=AOvVaw0Kj-ja5AAzaX2NWBC5iyTu

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiDkbrH17DpAhVEK80KHSgYBaEQFjACegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fsports%2Fwp%2F2017%2F09%2F13%2Fthe-nfl-has-an-offensive-line-crisis%2F&usg=AOvVaw2HO4xqBLr2e41vxq-45Zty

 

This is your way of showing you're well read and someone who says "no more excuses" isn't !? What a load of

I have used the phrase before. I'd put $ down that you've used the phrase before. I too feel Josh has "no more excuses", even after reading those articles. So where does someone who read the articles you posted and still feel Allen has "no more excuses" fit? This ought to be good.