C.Biscuit97 Posted May 12, 2020 Posted May 12, 2020 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: He is not a precision passer, he isn't Drew Brees or Brady or Matt Ryan... but Big Ben has never been a precision passer either and has been borderline elite for most of his career. The Bills offensive weapons have dropped too many balls for at least 2 seasons and while, yes, some of that is on Josh, a lot of it is on the weapons. Not sure where the GM drafting for need comment came from, not sure that is relevant here? And CJ Spiller was absolutely a need pick. Gailey wanted a waterbug running back for his spread offense. He wasn't after big downhill runners. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm Ben is a 64% passer for his career, and in full seasons, has lowest % in a full season is 59.7%. For what it’s worth, he completely 65.5% for his college career. He’s not Brees but he surprisingly accurate. 5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: That trade for KB will forever be Beane's low point. This is the first time I have ever heard you make a negative post about the Bills. ?
GunnerBill Posted May 12, 2020 Posted May 12, 2020 2 hours ago, billsfan_34 said: 6 yards a play imo just isnt good enough with the speed he has. Foster and Duke are most likely gone. Talent and depth have caught up to them. McKenzie is a good depth guy. If he doesn't make it here (and he might not) then he will be on a roster next season. 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm Ben is a 64% passer for his career, and in full seasons, has lowest % in a full season is 59.7%. For what it’s worth, he completely 65.5% for his college career. I never said he wasn't accurate. Obviously Ben is accurate. You don't become a Hall of Fame QB if you are not accurate. But he isn't a precision passer. He is accurate enough, he is aggressive and has a really strong mentality. You don't have to be pin point precise on every ball to be great is the point. 1
PromoTheRobot Posted May 12, 2020 Posted May 12, 2020 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: This is the first time I have ever heard you make a negative post about the Bills. ? You need to pick up your stalker game.
GoBills808 Posted May 12, 2020 Posted May 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I never said he wasn't accurate. Obviously Ben is accurate. You don't become a Hall of Fame QB if you are not accurate. But he isn't a precision passer. He is accurate enough, he is aggressive and has a really strong mentality. You don't have to be pin point precise on every ball to be great is the point. Having guys like Antonio Brown who catche everything will do wonders for your comp% 1
DJB Posted May 12, 2020 Posted May 12, 2020 Leet me present to you exhibit A as to the reason why Josh had so many drops 1
Mango Posted May 12, 2020 Posted May 12, 2020 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: Having guys like Antonio Brown who catche everything will do wonders for your comp% Fair point. A little chick and egg. Both sides have some validity. Robert Woods has a near identical catch rate to Antonio Brown with LAR. But sub 60% in his time in BUF.
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted May 12, 2020 Posted May 12, 2020 On 5/11/2020 at 7:39 PM, buffalover4life said: It still had to be even worse in 2018. This video is comical. some fantastic passes in there though This is seriously painful to watch. Re-living that Clay drop brought so many bad memories. Just goes to show you that the 3,4 and 5 receivers can make a difference in the game if they just catch the damn ball. We should be better this year and Josh being inaccurate based on completion % is a joke. It will be nice to see Foster, McKenzie and Duke off the roster. 1
TwistofFate Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 It does not account for how catchable the pass was. Allen ranks 32nd in on-target throw percentage, per Sports Info Solutions. Only four quarterbacks have a lower “completion percentage over expectation” — David Blough, Dwayne Haskins, Gardner Minshew and Jared Goff — per Next Gen Stats. If you had to dive 5 yards across the field, or jump 10 feet in the air, then get your hands on the ball but are unable to haul it in, it counts as a DROP. The quality of the pass isn't taken into account in drop statistics. Luckily advanced metrics track these things and Allen is rank 32nd in on target throws. When you take into account all the data, it becomes pretty clear why we are so high on the drop scale. 2
dakrider Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 Its not just the number of drops, its also the number of contested catches that the good NFL receivers make, Bills did not have many of those at all. Bills receiving corp last 2 years was a glaring weakness. But this year it should be more of a strength. An improved running game, an improved and decent O-line, and a 3rd year Josh Allen - Bills should have a dramatic increase in scoring. An inexperienced Josh walked into a difficult situation with the Bills and took his lumps. Hopefully he will be the better for it this year!
reddogblitz Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 It is interesting that the QB with the second most drops only slightly behind Josh was a guy that played in the Super Bowl last year. Drops don't have to necessarily be killers if a QB can continue to put good passes in there post drop. 1
GoBills808 Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 25 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: It is interesting that the QB with the second most drops only slightly behind Josh was a guy that played in the Super Bowl last year. Drops don't have to necessarily be killers if a QB can continue to put good passes in there post drop. SF wasn't a big passing team though, they had less attempts on the year than us. I think it's more that they had a productive run game and great defense. Passing is a more efficient way of moving the ball than running, and drops are murder on pass efficiency.
Mango Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: SF wasn't a big passing team though, they had less attempts on the year than us. I think it's more that they had a productive run game and great defense. Passing is a more efficient way of moving the ball than running, and drops are murder on pass efficiency. I mean, Jimmy G had 15 more passes, 7 less drops on the season than Josh, and threw for 900 more yards. JG completed 69% of his passes and was top half in the league in total completed passes. They were incredibly efficient through the air to say the least.
GoBills808 Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Mango said: I mean, Jimmy G had 15 more passes, 7 less drops on the season than Josh, and threw for 900 more yards. JG completed 69% of his passes and was top half in the league in total completed passes. They were incredibly efficient through the air to say the least. Yes they have an outstanding offensive mind in Shanahan who was working w/what I would generously call limited resources at wideout. Similarly Balt, very efficient passing offense (although I firmly believe their level of productivity through the air is unsustainable) Bills...not so much 1
CorkScrewHill Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 On 5/11/2020 at 7:49 PM, HappyDays said: So if I'm reading this chart correctly, our drops cumutaively took about 55 expected points off the board on the season. That's 3.4 more points per game. That would have moved us from 23rd in the league to 16th https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game
reddogblitz Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Yes they have an outstanding offensive mind in Shanahan who was working w/what I would generously call limited resources at wideout. I think you may have reached the crux of the biscuit. Our "offesive mind" had very similar limitations with very different results. Our "offensive mind" has more to do with it than drops IMHO.
DieHardBillsFan Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 On 5/11/2020 at 7:06 PM, Hardhatharry said: I knew Tannehill was still garbage his pass catchers were just amazing. I suppose Drew Brees actually sucks too. There is an art to throwing a ball to a player that has a high percentage of catch-ability and throwing a ball that could have been caught to a player. The great ones make it easy for the receivers.
Mango Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said: That would have moved us from 23rd in the league to 16th https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game I am definitely too busy/lazy at the moment, but you can't adjust the Bills number and not the rest of the league, and state ranking change. They are what they are compared to the league, and everybody gets the bump or nobody does. They might jump 2 spots at best, but they also might just stay the same. Even when accounting for "adjusted" numbers across the league, Buffalo does not see a ton of movement in rankings compared to other franchises. Buffalo does not jump after adjusting everybody between 23 and 16: Indy Arizona Carolina Chargers Cleveland And is close with since exact numbers aren't provided, with: Detroit NYJ
GoBills808 Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 1 hour ago, reddogblitz said: I think you may have reached the crux of the biscuit. Our "offesive mind" had very similar limitations with very different results. Our "offensive mind" has more to do with it than drops IMHO. I agree but drops tend to have an outsized impact on certain QB metrics that get thrown about
CorkScrewHill Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Mango said: I am definitely too busy/lazy at the moment, but you can't adjust the Bills number and not the rest of the league, and state ranking change. They are what they are compared to the league, and everybody gets the bump or nobody does. They might jump 2 spots at best, but they also might just stay the same. Even when accounting for "adjusted" numbers across the league, Buffalo does not see a ton of movement in rankings compared to other franchises. Buffalo does not jump after adjusting everybody between 23 and 16: Indy Arizona Carolina Chargers Cleveland And is close with since exact numbers aren't provided, with: Detroit NYJ You are correct .. that was not sound logic on my part.
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