Graphic: QBs hurt most by drops last year

[Mango]

People talk a lot about our 2019 drops. 

 

Anybody concerned that we substantially upgraded our OL and WR corps from 18 to 19 and our starting QB played more games after a full NFL offseason and both drops and drop percentages went up pretty significantly?

 

2018: Josh Allen started 10 games. Team had 499 attempts. 24 Drops. 5% drop rate. 

 

2019: Josh Allen started 16 games. Team had 513 attempts. 36 drops. 7.4% drop rate. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/advanced.htm

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Mango

[transplantbillsfan]

I'll meet your graphic with another graphic...

[Bss]

11 minutes ago, Mango said:

People talk a lot about our 2019 drops. 

 

Anybody concerned that we substantially upgraded our OL and WR corps from 18 to 19 and our starting QB played more games after a full NFL offseason and both drops and drop percentages went up pretty significantly?

 

2018: Josh Allen started 10 games. Team had 499 attempts. 24 Drops. 5% drop rate. 

 

2019: Josh Allen started 16 games. Team had 513 attempts. 36 drops. 7.4% drop rate. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/advanced.htm

 

I think thats partially dawson knox and partially Josh getting more accurate so that more of those attempts have been close enough to the receivers that they're actually able to drop them 

[JESSEFEFFER]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

People talk a lot about our 2019 drops. 

 

Anybody concerned that we substantially upgraded our OL and WR corps from 18 to 19 and our starting QB played more games after a full NFL offseason and both drops and drop percentages went up pretty significantly?

 

2018: Josh Allen started 10 games. Team had 499 attempts. 24 Drops. 5% drop rate. 

 

2019: Josh Allen started 16 games. Team had 513 attempts. 36 drops. 7.4% drop rate. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/advanced.htm

 

Since Knox and Singletary were big contributors to this my answer is no.  They were so underutilized as pass catchers in their college careers that it was entirely predictable.  They also showed some real after catch ability that makes you think they could be key parts of a dynamic offense.

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 hours ago, buffalover4life said:

It still had to be even worse in 2018. This video is comical. some fantastic passes in there though

 

 

Those guys were absolutely horrible.  Jones, Benjamin, Thompson McKenzie and Foster.  Ridiculously bad.  Did anyone on our team make  one contested catch that entire season?  How did Zay Jones and Kelvin Benjamin turn out so badly?  One was a stud at FSU and caught the winning TD pass in the Nat Championship game against Auburn, and the other had the most catches in a D1 career.  They come to Buffalo and can not catch anything,  Who was our receiving  coach in 2018?  Was he let go after the season?  

[Mango]

20 minutes ago, Bss said:

I think thats partially dawson knox and partially Josh getting more accurate so that more of those attempts have been close enough to the receivers that they're actually able to drop them 

 

Thats a good call. Helps account for bad throw %. 

20 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Since Knox and Singletary were big contributors to this my answer is no.  They were so underutilized as pass catchers in their college careers that it was entirely predictable.  They also showed some real after catch ability that makes you think they could be key parts of a dynamic offense.

 

Knox was bad at catching the ball. I knew he lead the team with 10. But I had just assumed (my bad) that some combination of KB, Zay Jones, would easily hit that based on all the crap they get/got. But they only added up to 5. Chris Ivory actually led the team with 4. Same as Singletary. I’d call that a wash. 

 

17/24 drops from 2018 were not on the roster in 2019. And Knox played catch up for over half of it. Haha.

[Motorin']

39 minutes ago, Mango said:

People talk a lot about our 2019 drops. 

 

Anybody concerned that we substantially upgraded our OL and WR corps from 18 to 19 and our starting QB played more games after a full NFL offseason and both drops and drop percentages went up pretty significantly?

 

2018: Josh Allen started 10 games. Team had 499 attempts. 24 Drops. 5% drop rate. 

 

2019: Josh Allen started 16 games. Team had 513 attempts. 36 drops. 7.4% drop rate. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/advanced.htm

 

So he had 2.4% more drops while completing 6% more of his passes. Sounds like more passes were on target to be dropped in the first place. 

[Chandler#81]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Oh don't worry, I'm sure they'll be here before too long.

How many times have I told you damn kids to shut the screen door!?

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

Allen is still inaccurate with the deep pass.

Allen still fumbles too much.

Allen still bails the pocket and runs too much.

Most of those drops were because Allen through behind his receivers.

If Allen was black, he'd be a backup by now.

 

Did I get them all?

?‍♂️

[GunnerBill]

So I don't think the Allen number is any surprise, we all watched our "playmakers" drop the ball at key moments. The top 4 there are out in front by a fair amount. I wonder if all the people who say Dak isn't worth paying are surprised to see him up there? Because they have been telling me all spring he has great weapons. If you watched all 16 Dallas games last season (and I did) that number is not surprising. Paying Cooper before Dak might be one of the maddest decisions I can remember. It is Max Unger for Jimmy Graham bad.

Edited May 12, 2020 by GunnerBill

[eball]

All you need to do is listen to McDermott. When asked what he looks for in a receiver he immediately says “one who catches the ball.”

 

Beane and McD aren’t blind. Allen and the Bills’ passing offense are going to shut a lot of people up this season.

[MJS]

I was expecting this thread to be more graphic.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

McKenzie has the best worst hands and if the air blows he falls down. Kid has speed and thats where it ends. He wont make the 53 this time around.

He's a 1 play gadget guy not worthy of a roster spot. He was awful in 2018.

[DrPJax]

6 hours ago, buffalover4life said:

It still had to be even worse in 2018. This video is comical. some fantastic passes in there though

 

 

Wow thanks for posting that. It’s absolutely startling to see those strung together from supposedly “professional “  receivers!  I don’t know how Josh could ever trust throwing to Zay or Foster any longer, except he was not provided with any other options!  It still amazes me how long jones was kept on and it certainly makes me think after foster disappearing as a receiver last year that if any of the draft picks can be an effective gunner ( not difficult imho), he will be off the roster. We didn’t miss him in the playoff game ( I don’t think he was active was he? ) so I don’t see how he makes the roster if any of these new guys can catch ( not becoming Zayisms themselves) .   It sounds like McBean will no longer tolerate that type of ineptitude and rightfully so when this is a critical year to determine if Josh will be our long term franchise Qb, which I firmly believe he prove himself to be with a true #1 receiver In addition to cutting  his fumbles. After seeing a video like that it’s no wonder we can’t score points effectively. Pretty revealing video and point by OP documenting how badly Allen has been hurt by drops. 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

Wow thanks for posting that. It’s absolutely startling to see those strung together from supposedly “professional “  receivers!  I don’t know how Josh could ever trust throwing to Zay or Foster any longer, except he was not provided with any other options!  It still amazes me how long jones was kept on and it certainly makes me think after foster disappearing as a receiver last year that if any of the draft picks can be an effective gunner ( not difficult imho), he will be off the roster. We didn’t miss him in the playoff game ( I don’t think he was active was he? ) so I don’t see how he makes the roster if any of these new guys can catch ( not becoming Zayisms themselves) .   It sounds like McBean will no longer tolerate that type of ineptitude and rightfully so when this is a critical year to determine if Josh will be our long term franchise Qb, which I firmly believe he prove himself to be with a true #1 receiver In addition to cutting  his fumbles. After seeing a video like that it’s no wonder we can’t score points effectively. Pretty revealing video and point by OP documenting how badly Allen has been hurt by drops. 

 

Gabe Davis will be out gunner IMO. He did it some in college. He will be our 4th receiver and our #1 gunner. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

8 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

definitely A LOT of drops here, which i why we selected WRs known for good hands.

 

 

[GreggTX]

Josh Allen will always "suffer" more dropped passes than nearly all other QB's until he starts throwing accurate, well placed passes on a consistent basis. This proves nothing. Stop making excuses for him. He was 27th in passing efficiency among QB's with at least 100 attempts in 2019. Why do so many people willfully ignore the fact that he's not a good passer? This has always been a problem for him and it always will be. His deep ball accuracy may fluctuate as it often does with many QB's, but his short range accuracy is terrible too. The game may eventually slow down for him and he may even learn to handle pressure better, but he'll always struggle to put the ball on target.

 

We need to start using his running ability more and teach him to start securing the ball better. He was also 2nd in the NFL in fumbles. He still has a very long way to go, but in the mean time, we'll just keep ignoring the obvious and calling him "future MVP". McDermott had better figure this out or he will go down with his QB. I suspect that he is beginning to doubt, though. I never believe any GM that says he never drafts for need because they all do it every year unless it's a very high pick that falls to them because other teams didn't need the guy. I suspect that Fromm was only drafted to be a backup, though. We'll see. The only exception to the 'draft for need' I can think of for us was when Buddy Nix drafted CJ Spiller when he already had Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson.

Edited May 12, 2020 by GreggTX

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Josh Allen will always "suffer" more dropped passes than nearly all other QB's until he starts throwing accurate, well placed passes on a consistent basis. This proves nothing. Stop making excuses for him. He was 27th in passing efficiency among QB's with at least 100 attempts in 2019. Why do so many people willfully ignore the fact that he's not a good passer? This has always been a problem for him and it always will be. His deep ball accuracy may fluctuate as it often does with many QB's, but his short range accuracy is terrible too. The game may eventually slow down for him and he may even learn to handle pressure better, but he'll always struggle to put the ball on target.

 

We need to start using his running ability more and teach him to start securing the ball better. He was also 2nd in the NFL in fumbles. He still has a very long way to go, but in the mean time, we'll just keep ignoring the obvious and calling him "future MVP". McDermott had better figure this out or he will go down with his QB. I suspect that he is beginning to doubt, though. I never believe any GM that says he never drafts for need because they all do it every year unless it's a very high pick that falls to them because other teams didn't need the guy. The only exception I can think of for us was when Buddy Nix drafted CJ Spiller when he already had Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson.

 

He is not a precision passer, he isn't Drew Brees or Brady or Matt Ryan... but Big Ben has never been a precision passer either and has been borderline elite for most of his career. The Bills offensive weapons have dropped too many balls for at least 2 seasons and while, yes, some of that is on Josh, a lot of it is on the weapons.

 

Not sure where the GM drafting for need comment came from, not sure that is relevant here? And CJ Spiller was absolutely a need pick. Gailey wanted a waterbug running back for his spread offense. He wasn't after big downhill runners.

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Thanks man. I just looked it up.... I find it funny I already see people in the comments section of that tweet trying to explain away that fact that Allen is at the top. 

 

 

What you're doing there is framing. What they are doing is fair, just as fair as people trying to say that none of the drops go on Josh at all, just as fair as your saying that they're just "trying to explain away" something. Just as fair as that ridiculous video labelled "5 Minutes of Josh Allen Drops" that actually is a collection of drops, poor throws and defensed passes and a ton of instant replays and slo-mo replays taking up very significant amounts of the five minutes. Yup, plenty of drops in there, but equally several that absolutely weren't, though Kelvin Benjamin in particular comes off poorly. All are attempts to frame the data so it implies the result the writer/film editor has decided he wants.

 

Allen does have a problem with rifling the ball in too hard even on short passes. He needs to work on touch, and I'm sure if you asked him he'd totally agree with that. And that affects the drops.

 

How much? Impossible to say, really, but it absolutely does affect those numbers. He does seem to be improving, to my eyes at least. But he's got a ways to go. Plenty of rifle-armed QBs had that problem early in their careers and grew out of it, Elway for instance. Equally, though, some never learned. Allen is part of the reason for those numbers. Equally, though, the receivers are too. Plenty of real actual bad drops on display also.

 

 

 

The tweet's been removed, so I can't see what the OP is about, unfortunately.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Thurman#1

[HOUSE]

Really ?

 

[BobbyC81]

9 hours ago, SCBills said:

This graph is to Completion Percentage Truthers as a globe is to the Flat Earth Community. 
 

 

 

So, do the flat earth people just use a paper map?