How McDermott and Frazier confuse offenses

[MILFHUNTER#518]

9 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

716, thanks for starting this thread.  It sparked a great deal of discussion by the crew.

Refreshing to read about my original reason for coming here years ago, football. PPP is just so exhausting.

 

I was always a hockey guy, the Bills sucking and getting screwed so much made me as a young lad lose interest. I have learned so damned much from threads like this over the years, that people think I played football or coached LOL. 

 

Seriously, you do not realize how much Football is a thinking man's game until you learn the X'S & O'S, the game within the game so to speak. I had no idea how smart you have to be to be an offensive lineman, for example. They have so many checks they have to go through pre-snap, it boggles my mind. The game is just so much more fun to watch after you get even a mild grasp of what is going on with both sides of the ball, then you can truly appreciate the sport. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

The problem with that is Dugger isn't some covering specialist right now, actually a long way to go

 

He will be an in the box safety or a sub package LBr for a few years at least . He is nothing like a Hyde

 

He is an enforcer at this point with great speed but his coverage skills are lacking

 

McDermott wanted him to play the box role in his big nickel, not cover half the field in coverage

He’s like the A Williams prototype, he’ll find his way into the field one way or another imo

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He’s like the A Williams prototype, he’ll find his way into the field one way or another imo

For sure there are niches for guys like that but he isn't Ed Reed don't let him fool you

 

Aaron Williams was actually a really good football player. He played with passion , strength, tenacity and awareness

 

I thought the day we drafted him he should be plugged in at safety. I thought he was the best or second-best safety prospect in the class

 

He just didn't have the speed to cover on the outside and the bills put a square peg in a round hole

 

At safety he was a natural..  he could cover, hit, had ball skills

 

What he didn't have was discipline, he was a reckless player and that was his undoing

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

Refreshing to read about my original reason for coming here years ago, football. PPP is just so exhausting.

 

I was always a hockey guy, the Bills sucking and getting screwed so much made me as a young lad lose interest. I have learned so damned much from threads like this over the years, that people think I played football or coached LOL. 

 

Seriously, you do not realize how much Football is a thinking man's game until you learn the X'S & O'S, the game within the game so to speak. I had no idea how smart you have to be to be an offensive lineman, for example. They have so many checks they have to go through pre-snap, it boggles my mind. The game is just so much more fun to watch after you get even a mild grasp of what is going on with both sides of the ball, then you can truly appreciate the sport. 

At the highest levels. The NFL,  division 1 football.. it really is a thinking man's game. 

 

Sure the physical tools are great but it's what's between the ears that separates a good vs. Great player

 

I could write 200 pages about the intricacies and nuances of the sport. The chess match which takes place

 

being my biggest passion throughout my life it's amazing to think all the football knowledge I've learned , retained ,passed on to others .. and am still learning because you're never done learning

 

I remember my high school coach letting me draw plays on a whiteboard because I was just on a different level lol

[Don Otreply]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:41 PM, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Nice thread but I always thought it was more about the tequila McD had put in the visiting team's Gatorade.

It was Everclear...

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

It was Everclear...

If he was really smart and funny.. he would have given the other team PB&j and psychedelic mushroom sandwiches

Edited May 11, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Don Otreply]

19 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

If he was really smart and funny.. he would have given the other team PB&j and psychedelic mushroom sandwiches

That would be pretty damn funny to watch...

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

That would be pretty damn funny to watch...

I can hear the mic'd up already.. 

 

Darnold-(surfer voice) dudeeee, I feel funny, my hand is like oozing through the ball

 

Coach gase- dammit Darnold, you're playing like you're on drugs today(googly eyed)

 

Darnold-relax mannnn the universe is like bigger than all of us. Eat some of these sandwiches sean made for us and just vibe bro

Edited May 11, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Lazy]

Great thread OP! 

Love seeing/learning the complexities inside the game.

Thanks

[Buffalo716]

20 minutes ago, Lazy said:

Great thread OP! 

Love seeing/learning the complexities inside the game.

Thanks

No problem

 

Why I come here besides talking Bills

[Ralonzo]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

being my biggest passion throughout my life it's amazing to think all the football knowledge I've learned , retained ,passed on to others .. and am still learning because you're never done learning

Any insight on the Philly game? I only caught parts of it but it was the one game where the Bills D got beat and beat bad. Which was surprising because the Eagles mostly didn’t look special any other time I caught them.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 5/9/2020 at 6:44 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Diagram 2 shows Sean's favorite coverage from last year. Palms coverage out of a cover 4 look

 

Palms coverage is a very advanced coverage that most NFL teams don't even run its so complex. It all comes down to the awareness and the communication between corner and safety tandems

 

It's a quarters look with man elements depending on the offensive look.. where out routes are cover 4 killers , Palms counteracts that

 

Outside corners in quarters coverage CONVERT to MAN on slot out routes. Changing from quarters coverage to man.

 

The safeties in quarters coverage THEN became man up on the outside receivers

 

This is a very complex design but smart corners like Tre and Levi and Safeties like Hyde and Poyer allow us to execute this advance coverage almost flawlessly

 

Tres reaction and closing speed is Elite and this plays right into his hands

 

Now defenses don't know how to attack Buffalo's cover 4 because the green areas ARE NO LONGER GREEN

 

The slot wide receivers dictate what technique our corners and safeties will play

 

if this so complex, how is it that Rex's defense confused our own defense more than the other teams offense?

 

i know rex is terrible coach but i always thought his defense was so complex that the players just couldn't do it. (Also thank God rex is not here, just needed to say that ?)

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Buffalo Barbarian

[hjnick]

12 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Thanks for answering 808.  I was generally thinking the same thing but there was so much CB2 talk around draft time I was questioning

myself missing something big.  I have a limited expertise on this but I too thought the young guys looked like they were developing pretty good.

I think all the CB2 talk was because Norman only has a 1 year deal and alot of ppl here soured on Levi Wallace last year.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

if this so complex, how is it that Rex's defense confused our own defense more than the other teams offense?

 

i know rex is terrible coach but i always thought his defense was so complex that the players just couldn't do it. (Also thank God rex is not here, just needed to say that ?)

 

 

 

Part of it is this was year 3 of the system. McDermott did not come here and start playing some of the more advanced combination coverages straight away, or at least they were smaller parts of the D. They have added wrinkles to what they do each year. 

 

EDIT: though I will also say I was never that convinced Rex's defense was "too complicated" so much as it had become outdated and it was poorly coached by a guy who was half assing it.

Edited May 11, 2020 by GunnerBill

[Big Turk]

McDermott and Frazier defenses are a combination of simple concepts leading to complex coverages, players that pay attention to very minute details through film study and hard work and players that execute the scheme nearly flawlessly most games.

 

I mean in a league where 300 yard passing games are almost routine, the Bills many times don't even allow 200 yards.  It is honestly crazy to watch and see a team hit a 20 yard pass play on us and then be like "Wow, that was a big play" but then at the end of the game the team has like 168 yard passing total.  Almost like we are so used to seeing virtually nothing from a team that anything more than 15 yards is a big play against us.

5 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

if this so complex, how is it that Rex's defense confused our own defense more than the other teams offense?

 

i know rex is terrible coach but i always thought his defense was so complex that the players just couldn't do it. (Also thank God rex is not here, just needed to say that ?)

 

 

 

It is complex for other teams to decipher but the Bills have very specific rules they follow when running it which makes it easier for them to do it properly.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

if this so complex, how is it that Rex's defense confused our own defense more than the other teams offense?

 

i know rex is terrible coach but i always thought his defense was so complex that the players just couldn't do it. (Also thank God rex is not here, just needed to say that ?)

 

 

 

Rex's defense had a lot of checks, if you screw one up good luck.  .  Quicker snapping offenses will have success snapping off motion/jet-motion because of confusion for the LBs and Safeties.  It works alright if you have good man corners on the outside - you take away their best WRs.  But in a more spread out age with 3 WR sets being common - it's a tough sell.  It becomes more of a tough sell when the LBs and Safeties aren't particularly talented.  The linemen didn't seem to buy into what their role was either.

45 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

McDermott and Frazier defenses are a combination of simple concepts leading to complex coverages, players that pay attention to very minute details through film study and hard work and players that execute the scheme nearly flawlessly most games.

 

I mean in a league where 300 yard passing games are almost routine, the Bills many times don't even allow 200 yards.  It is honestly crazy to watch and see a team hit a 20 yard pass play on us and then be like "Wow, that was a big play" but then at the end of the game the team has like 168 yard passing total.  Almost like we are so used to seeing virtually nothing from a team that anything more than 15 yards is a big play against us.

 

It is complex for other teams to decipher but the Bills have very specific rules they follow when running it which makes it easier for them to do it properly.

 

Most of the big plays allowed this year were on screens, and missed tackles.  I remember poyer screwed up that one play in philly.  But either way, they aren't chucking up deep balls and completing them - even wallace does a good job preventing those with his size/athleticism. 

[Buffalo716]

10 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

if this so complex, how is it that Rex's defense confused our own defense more than the other teams offense?

 

i know rex is terrible coach but i always thought his defense was so complex that the players just couldn't do it. (Also thank God rex is not here, just needed to say that ?)

 

 

Rex's scheme was all over the place . He had too many players playing different techniques and putting square pegs in round holes

 

Sean's defense has complex coverages in the back half but he can simplify it down to 1 read. They only need to key on 1 guy not 3 different factors

[Jauronimo]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Part of it is this was year 3 of the system. McDermott did not come here and start playing some of the more advanced combination coverages straight away, or at least they were smaller parts of the D. They have added wrinkles to what they do each year. 

 

EDIT: though I will also say I was never that convinced Rex's defense was "too complicated" so much as it had become outdated and it was poorly coached by a guy who was half assing it.

Yup.  Poorly coached, poorly executed, and no communication between front office and coach could not have helped.  Rex/Rob couldn't get the call in and get guys lined up on either side of the ball. 

 

I think this sums up Rex's tenure. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000764204/article/rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-10men-fail-cost-us-the-game

 

With the playoffs on the line, we have 10 men on the field because Rex subbed in a guy Whaley released during the week.

 

[Saxum]

38 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Yup.  Poorly coached, poorly executed, and no communication between front office and coach could not have helped.  Rex/Rob couldn't get the call in and get guys lined up on either side of the ball. 

 

I think this sums up Rex's tenure. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000764204/article/rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-10men-fail-cost-us-the-game

 

With the playoffs on the line, we have 10 men on the field because Rex subbed in a guy Whaley released during the week.

 

 

Page is only partially there.  Maybe Rex moved to work for NFL.com in charge of server quality.

[letsgoteam]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Yup.  Poorly coached, poorly executed, and no communication between front office and coach could not have helped.  Rex/Rob couldn't get the call in and get guys lined up on either side of the ball. 

 

I think this sums up Rex's tenure. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000764204/article/rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-10men-fail-cost-us-the-game

 

With the playoffs on the line, we have 10 men on the field because Rex subbed in a guy Whaley released during the week.

 

Do you happen to know who the player was?