Convince me that the 2020 Pats are good...

[CardinalScotts]

First lets look how the Patriots won last year:

Brady was down last year but he wasn't terrible at all,  just unable to take over or come up with the back breaking plays he's known for. Still going 12-4  I think we would all take every year from who ever lines up at QB for us. Brady had 2 big games back to back giants and skins 348+334 he was Tom terrific then it really left - he had 3375 in the 14 other games again not terrible but that's 240 a game and not elite putting him 18th in the league. (YES I KNOW REMOVING HIS BEST TWO GAMES) 

As far as the patriots they won games in many different ways:

1) The overlooked specials teams great in many catagories  9th in kick off coverage...9th in punt coverage...10th in punt return ave.....9th in opposition starting average. 20.3 yd line.....there were 9 blocked punts in the entire league they had 4 of them.

            - the kickers they used FOUR kickers Folk, Nugent, Gustkowski, Forbath collectively they hit 80% are you kidding me?

2) Defense great at shutting you down but they do more that  25 interceptions (we had 14)  5 defensive touchdowns...15 forced fumbles (we had 16)

3) When they got the turnovers they whipped on teams, when they didnt they struggled, winning 16-10, 17-10, 13-9 

in the five games new england required the offense to score 20 to win they lost them all  0-5 giving up 20-27-23-28-37 

4) Brady still had some magic in him with clutch throws to Edelman and White that was the offense

 

they lost a few guys as everyone does but Brady was their confidence and leader

I think Bill will play a ball control, conservative, low scoring. gadget playing offense and try to win 13-10

  

Edited May 6, 2020 by CardinalScotts

[MrEpsYtown]

I do not think they are going to miss Collins or Shelton. They really like Adam Butler on the dline. They still have Lawrence Guy, who nobody on our team could block last year, and there is a chance that a guy like Derek Rivers finally puts it together. I don't like Josh Uche as a prospect, but I think he can replace some of what Collins brought to the table. I do think that they guy they are really going to miss is Van Noy. I think he is a pretty  underrated player. However, they always get production out of linebackers off the street like Elandon Roberts, Marquis Flowers, Jonathan Casillas, Ramon Humber. So I don't worry about them there. 

 

I think they have a really good line and good running backs. Now I do not think that Stidham is going to be very good, but I think he is better than lot of people are making him out to be. He has some tools. And for a less than ideal QB to have success you need two things: a good offensive line and a strong run game. So I would not right them off completely, but I do think they are the second best team in the division behind us. 

[CardinalScotts]

10 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I do not think they are going to miss Collins or Shelton. They really like Adam Butler on the dline. They still have Lawrence Guy, who nobody on our team could block last year, and there is a chance that a guy like Derek Rivers finally puts it together. I don't like Josh Uche as a prospect, but I think he can replace some of what Collins brought to the table. I do think that they guy they are really going to miss is Van Noy. I think he is a pretty  underrated player. However, they always get production out of linebackers off the street like Elandon Roberts, Marquis Flowers, Jonathan Casillas, Ramon Humber. So I don't worry about them there. 

 

I think they have a really good line and good running backs. Now I do not think that Stidham is going to be very good, but I think he is better than lot of people are making him out to be. He has some tools. And for a less than ideal QB to have success you need two things: a good offensive line and a strong run game. So I would not right them off completely, but I do think they are the second best team in the division behind us. 

YES!!  we cant get Guy blocked it was amazing to watch I thought I was the only one who noticed

4 hours ago, BeastMaster said:

I won't say they will be good, but I think they could be 8-8 or possibly 9-7.

 

The defense will carry the load while the offense will try to grind out points. New England has done a fantastic job utilizing their backs in the pass game and that is very helpful to a young QB. I can see them playing small ball and letting the defense hold up...alot like this Bills team of the past few seasons. 

 

Also, you cannot discount McDaniels and Belicheck being able to outcoach their opponents. McDermott has never been able to match wits with Billy.

 

I think it's foolish to make a definitive statement for either side, but to say they won't be a good team is something I'm not ready to write off.

match wits honestly he's shut brady down a lot and out coached Bill......just short a couple vet play makers who come up with the plays 

[CardinalScotts]

3 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

This was a good year to land a QB in free agency, yet Belichik is rolling the dice with Stidham and Hoyer.  Either he’s tanking or he has more confidence in his QB’s than Dalton, Winston, Newton, etc.  He won 11 games with Matt Cassell and rolled the dice on Brady when he was an unknown afterthought.  Maybe they’ll stink but Belichik has more than earned the benefit of the doubt.  It’s not laziness to think they could win division.  

the cassell year they were first on defense 1st in pts allowed, first in yards, 1st against the pass and led the league in turnovers

52 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

He had not started a game since high school.  Its amazing they even found Cassel.

gee he went to USC - do they have athletic scholarships at USC

he won with the top defense in the league...Cassel went 10-5 not 11 and lead the league in getting sacked....it was a dont lose it for us Matt

[aristocrat]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Lee won't be good. He sucks. I think Harry "could be good" but that is the category he is in going into year 2.... the "well maybe he is good?" category. I also think the other kid who was an UDFA last year is a decent little player. Myers is it? He isn't a #1 or anything but if they could say get Harry to break out as a #1 and still get a year from Edelman I think he could be a serviceable #3 option.

 

It is just a lot of projection though. Their QB and pass catchers are a combined 32nd of 32 to me. They have a line and they have some backs.... but beyond that the offense is a huge question mark.

 

lee has at least shown that he can play in the league. harry has shown nothing. sure he was coming off injury but now he's got no off season and a new qb.  they have a lot of questions on offense thats for sure

[GunnerBill]

Just now, aristocrat said:

 

lee has at least shown that he can play in the league. harry has shown nothing. sure he was coming off injury but now he's got no off season and a new qb.  they have a lot of questions on offense thats for sure

 

I must have missed the week Marquise Lee looked like an NFL receiver. Agree Harry has shown nothing yet but he does still have talent.

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, CardinalScotts said:

the cassell year they were first on defense 1st in pts allowed, first in yards, 1st against the pass and led the league in turnovers

gee he went to USC - do they have athletic scholarships at USC

he won with the top defense in the league...Cassel went 10-5 not 11 and lead the league in getting sacked....it was a dont lose it for us Matt

Gee, how many guys get drafted who didn't make a college start?  One of those 33 college passes must have been a beauty.  I wonder which one scouts liked the most?

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I must have missed the week Marquise Lee looked like an NFL receiver. Agree Harry has shown nothing yet but he does still have talent.

 

lee with a couple years of 860 yards and over 700 yards aren't world beating numbers but they're enough to keep you in the league.  harry has 100 yards in 7 games and looked lost out there. 

[blacklabel]

I think their defense is still going to be pretty good. And it's going to be the focal point because it's the more talented unit. They're gonna look to score 17-20 points a game and then let the defense close it out. Offensively, they're still able to adjust their schemes pretty well. One week they're a power running team, the next week they're a West Coast dink and dunkeroo show. A lot of that will depend on Stidham, though. I don't care how high they are on him, he's still going to struggle in his first year against NFL starters. They also lost Dante Scarnecchia, the OL coach. The last time he retired, the OL went straight to Poopsville, so much so that Bellychunx called and persuaded Scarnecchia to come back. Without him there, I'd like to think they'll make a long awaited return to Poopsville. They certainly won't be able to hide behind Brady's quick snap-to-throw times. 

 

It's just difficult to count them out either way, Brady or no Brady. They still have Bellychunx who is a situational football wizard and could probably find ways to win with a JV team. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

The Pats will wind up with a top pick and an elite QB prospect next year. 

 

See I don't think they'll be that bad. I don't see how they end up worse than the Jaguars, Jets, Dolphins, Redskins, Raiders... there will be at least 2 teams worse than them that will need a QB. Belichick is good enough to carry a bad roster to 5 or 6 wins.

[PromoTheRobot]

It's BBFS. Battered Bill Fan Syndrome. Belichick lives in your head.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I don't see how the Patriots trying to win by managing Stidham and leaning on defense, is stylistically a different approach than how Jauron tried to win, how Marrone tried to win, how Rex Ryan tried to win and how McDermott tried to win for 3 years here. Gailey actually threw the ball. 

 

The Bills have mostly had game managing Quarterbacks, where they leaned on defense to keep points as low as possible, shorten the game length, and try to make a living off other teams mistakes.  

 

The main difference is the Patriots have a history of good defensive play, even with rotating spare pieces in and out of the defense, and a mastermind.

 

It is interesting that Patriots passed on their opportunity to sign Dalton and Winston, have passed on Cam thus far, traded down in the Draft.

 

The Bills had an offense that scored 19 ppg in 2019, and allowed 16.2, en route to a 10-6 record. 

 

The Patriots could attempt to do the same thing, bleed clock, kick field goals, live off turnovers. They have the weakest QB room in the league, unless Stidham is good.   

 

 

 

 

[ngbills]

48 minutes ago, CardinalScotts said:

the cassell year they were first on defense 1st in pts allowed, first in yards, 1st against the pass and led the league in turnovers

gee he went to USC - do they have athletic scholarships at USC

he won with the top defense in the league...Cassel went 10-5 not 11 and lead the league in getting sacked....it was a dont lose it for us Matt

No - They were 8th in points, 10th in yards and 7th in 1st downs. Even more they were 20th in turnovers. These numbers were all down from the year before - 4th in both points and yards, 5th in 1st downs and 9th in turnovers. 

[BeastMaster]

55 minutes ago, CardinalScotts said:

YES!!  we cant get Guy blocked it was amazing to watch I thought I was the only one who noticed

match wits honestly he's shut brady down a lot and out coached Bill......just short a couple vet play makers who come up with the plays 

He got schooled on special teams this past season, and Brady took the D apart in week 16 when he could've finished the Pats ourselves.

 

I don't see McD anywhere close to BB in terms of coaching skills, but he's a good coach that should learn and improve with more time and experience, but I can't be convinced he outcoached BB whatsoever. We've had a superior roster and should've been able to win if that was the case.

[hjnick]

I think the first 4-5 weeks is going to dictate what New England does for the rest of their season.

 

They are going to give Stidham every chance to show his still skill and win over the first 4 games.

 

If Stidham has led them to a 3-2 or 4-1 record, they are going to keep trying to win.

If Stidham has led them to a 0-4(or 5) or 1-4 record, I think Bill will try and tank the season to get the #1 pick for Trevor Lawrence.

 

I'm sure New England has scouted him for the 2021 draft and realize how good he is.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Bellycheat and refs   Plus the commish. Nuff said. I see 11 wins

[ALLEN1QB]

They will be lucky to win 4 games.

Edited May 6, 2020 by ALLEN-2-DIGGS-TD!!

[FireChans]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So, I’ve been posting this in numerous threads for a few months. I know there are some people with me on it and some that think it’s crazy. The Pats are a bad team. They will win 6 games (and that’s with the greatest coach ever). Someone please make a case as to why they are a threat in the division? Please don’t use some lame reason like, “because they are king’s until they are not” or “because they are always good.” Give FOOTBALL reasoning as to why they are good!!
 

My reasoning as to why they are bad is that they have no talent on offense. Their OL is pretty good but lost their legendary coach. They have, at best, a massive question mark at QB. At worst, they have the worst QB situation in the league. The Pats likely have the worst set of skill players in the NFL as well. Some people are saying that they are going to run the ball and play defense. Their backs aren’t good and they will be forced to run against loaded boxes because no one fears their passing game. How does this team generate offense?!? Please, someone, tell me...

 

The secondary is really good. The pass rush isn’t. They lost Collins and Van Noy this offseason as well as Danny Shelton. That’s 3 starters in their front 7. That defense is no longer elite (although it could still be a top 10ish unit). 
 

Add that to, statistically, the hardest schedule in the NFL and explain to me what I’m missing? Again, no “because they always are” responses. This team has different players and coaches. I’m asking why THIS team is still a threat?  https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NE
 

I’m hoping that this thread inspires some thoughtful conversation. I suspect that the trauma of 20 years of being the nail has people living in fear for no reason. They will hide behind “because Belichick” because that’s the ONLY thing to stand behind. I’m not sure how many games, against that schedule, a great coach is good for? I think that they win 6 because of Belichick. That’s a 4 win team otherwise IMO. I’d love to hear a real football argument those as to why they can win? 

Good football team? I don’t know about that. No guarantee the Bills stomp them twice this season? Absolutely.

[HOUSE]

There are still plenty of ways to cheat

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

they will be in the superbowl against the buccaneers.

 

any questions