Rocky Landing Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Thanks for doing that. I had discussed it with a couple of fans but this brings in a much larger sample size. FWIW, I doubt that they are this bad for very long. They have a ton of cap space next year (assuming that the cap doesn’t take a big hit from Covid). They will have a read of their QB situation as well as their other young talent. If they get off to a slow start this year I can even see them unloading some quality vets for picks to expedite their timeline. As an extreme example could they get 2 firsts for Gilmore? That’s what Ramsey got and we know BB isn’t above dealing stars. If they aren’t ready to win now why not move your 30 year-old talent to help you acquire capital to get your next franchise QB? Just thinking out loud but those are the kind of moves that can jumpstart a rebuild. If they are 2 or 3 years from winning you’re better off with players that will be 25 then than 33. I have a good friend who's a die-hard Pats* fan, and knows football (rare, but they do exist). We had a conversation a year, or so ago about how much the Pats* have benefitted from their long dominance in the AFCE in terms of how many more practices they have held over the years. I had never really thought about that before that conversation, but in terms of a team's system, and their cohesion as a team, getting an additional month+ of practices every year for almost two decades contributed to the advantage they have had in the AFCE. That has just been interrupted, and in a way, this Covid-19 thing happened at the wrong time for the Pats*. And, if it happened at a "right time" for anyone, it's the Bills, who will enter the 2020 season with a decent team and a high degree of continuity. (I apologize for referring to a "right time" for Covid-19-- kind of an ugly thing to say...) I certainly agree that their fall will not be permanent. But, I don't agree with the "conventional wisdom" in NE that they're looking at a one year rebuild to a return to dominance. 1
ColoradoBills Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 20 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: It's BBFS. Battered Bill Fan Syndrome. Belichick lives in your head. Yes it is. NE with BB and TB have lived in the entire leagues head (not just the Bills) for so long now, it's all we know. TB is gone. TB is gone! Anyone thinking that isn't the most significant change in the NFL in decades is missing the point. @Kirby Jackson started what is arguably the most important off season thread this year! Posters are debating is it BB or TB who has been the most important? But IMO they're missing the point. It was a combination of the 2 that made that dynasty. BB composed the music and directed the defense BUT TB conducted the Offense for the last 10+ years. They won season after season because nobody has ever had a better "team winning" mentality than the Pats*. I can care less about any "statistics" for the Pats* past because it's all new this year. They won year after year because they didn't know anything other than winning. Defense having a tough game, no worries TB will pull it out with a final TD drive and vice versa. The Pats* roster is weaker than last year. How much? I don't care but it is weaker. The question going forward is how does the rest of the league (and our Bills) play the Pats* going forward. Teams lost to the BB/TB duo because THEY thought THEY couldn't beat that combination. TB is gone and the BB/TB dynasty is over and I don't think the locker room can handle it. I can't wait for the d-bag Pats* fans booing Stidham off the field because he doesn't play like the GOAT. I can't wait to see Edelman kicking the ball after he couldn't make the catch of poorly timed pass. I can't wait to see Gilmore pointing fingers for giving up a touchdown pass because the Offense isn't constantly pulling rabbits out its butt. I can't wait for the season to start! 2
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 32 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Sanu may need to be released to get under the cap. they spent a 2nd rd pick on him... tough spend on a 1yr rental with an affordable cap hit.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 7, 2020 Author Posted May 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, dneveu said: they spent a 2nd rd pick on him... tough spend on a 1yr rental with an affordable cap hit. I believe that they are currently $6.5M over the 2020 cap when you factor in the draft pool. If you have a better idea I’m here for it. The obvious answer is to sign Thuney to a long-term deal. The next most obvious is cutting Sanu.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 19 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I believe that they are currently $6.5M over the 2020 cap when you factor in the draft pool. If you have a better idea I’m here for it. The obvious answer is to sign Thuney to a long-term deal. The next most obvious is cutting Sanu. I'd say getting the Thuney extension in - could also restructure some guys, extend hightower. They have 25 mil in dead this year, so they'd really need to start using some future cap. Cutting sanu just makes that group so much worse, for an already not particularly good unit.
MJS Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 10 hours ago, Richard Noggin said: I hate every point you make mostly because they could be true. New England COULD grind out a 9-11 win season on the merits of their stifling defense and ball--control offense, no matter who the QB is. One mitigating, up-yours factor at play here is the annually unpredictable nature of NFL defensive success. But even there we find numbers that don't feel good: since and including 1996, NE's scoring defense has ranked outside the top-10 only six times (IN 24 SEASONS)! They had a fairly bad run of yards-allowed rankings from 2010-14 and 2017-18, but that didn't matter much with prime, top-5 Brady-led offenses. Belichick really is the best defensive coordinator I've ever seen. He's done it so many times, with so many different rosters. I'd say THAT's the number one argument in favor of the 2020 Pats being good. Then again, if the offense takes a major step back, that makes it MUCH more difficult for the D to play to its strengths. So that is the potential fly in the Hoodie's three-quarter sleeve ointment. One reason why their defenses were top 10 in preventing scores IS Brady and the offense. They led sustained, clock eating drives regularly, didn't turn the ball over, and basically never put their defense in bad positions. That goes a long way. Now, obviously Belichick is a great coach and he knows how to get the most out of his defensive players. But I think their points given up stat is just a little skewed because of how solid their offense has been with Tom Brady. 1
ColoradoBills Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 37 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I believe that they are currently $6.5M over the 2020 cap when you factor in the draft pool. If you have a better idea I’m here for it. The obvious answer is to sign Thuney to a long-term deal. The next most obvious is cutting Sanu. Your using the total contract cost for NE's rookies. Most of their picks won't affect the top 51 cap limits. They only need a little over 1 million to sign their rookies. BB trading out of the 1st was one way of keeping that number down. 8 minutes ago, dneveu said: I'd say getting the Thuney extension in - could also restructure some guys, extend hightower. They have 25 mil in dead this year, so they'd really need to start using some future cap. Cutting sanu just makes that group so much worse, for an already not particularly good unit. Both of you guys are talking about them extending Thuney. They have already had a chance to do it and still have not. I think it may have more to do about Thumey waiting to see what happens with the Pats* Offense. He may not want to stay in NE after this year. 1
Big Turk Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, dneveu said: Buffalo made the playoffs in 2017 with the 4th worst offense in the league by yardage standpoints, and they werent very good a year ago either. A lot of those deficiencies were attributed to injuries with NE. 2 linemen missed significant time, as did their 1st round pick WR. They also lost 2 WRs to suspension, and a HOF TE to retirement. And after all of that - they still had a much better offense than buffalo's in 2019. Because of Tom Brady, and no offense but 24 yards a game isn't exactly what I would call "much better" Edited May 7, 2020 by matter2003
FireChans Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, MJS said: One reason why their defenses were top 10 in preventing scores IS Brady and the offense. They led sustained, clock eating drives regularly, didn't turn the ball over, and basically never put their defense in bad positions. That goes a long way. Now, obviously Belichick is a great coach and he knows how to get the most out of his defensive players. But I think their points given up stat is just a little skewed because of how solid their offense has been with Tom Brady. Brady played the worst game of the year last year against the Bills, 18-39 for 150 and INT. We still got held to 10 and we still lost.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 7, 2020 Author Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, dneveu said: I'd say getting the Thuney extension in - could also restructure some guys, extend hightower. They have 25 mil in dead this year, so they'd really need to start using some future cap. Cutting sanu just makes that group so much worse, for an already not particularly good unit. Well it’s definitely an option: https://985thesportshub.com/2020/03/30/patriots-cap-space-nfl-rank-31st-fix-problem/ edit: NM, after reading @ColoradoBills post they only need about $1m Edited May 7, 2020 by Kirby Jackson
MJS Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Brady played the worst game of the year last year against the Bills, 18-39 for 150 and INT. We still got held to 10 and we still lost. Last year the Patriots had an elite defense. I was referring to the last two decades in totality. 1
ColoradoBills Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: Brady played the worst game of the year last year against the Bills, 18-39 for 150 and INT. We still got held to 10 and we still lost. It was the blocked punt for a TD that was a difference in that game. The Bills played an even game and it had more to do with "Can we ever beat BB and TB" syndrome than anything else.
FireChans Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 Just now, ColoradoBills said: It was the blocked punt for a TD that was a difference in that game. The Bills played an even game and it had more to do with "Can we ever beat BB and TB" syndrome than anything else. Brady didn’t block that punt. So, I’m utterly confident that Stidham is capable of putting up that statline above, and we know that statline can be good enough to beat us.
YattaOkasan Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 2 hours ago, dneveu said: Harry, Sanu, Edelman, Lee with a full offseason. I underlined the full offseason cause I disagree with this. Its def not a full typical offseason. Stidham will not get to throw to these guys as the starter until TC. Also I am not conviced they run the same system as last year because Stidham is not TB. I just dont see them as being able to have a good passing game at all. Just now, FireChans said: Brady didn’t block that punt. So, I’m utterly confident that Stidham is capable of putting up that statline above, and we know that statline can be good enough to beat us. we put up a lot of TOs in that game. I think thats what beat us and not that stat line.
FireChans Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 Just now, YattaOkasan said: I underlined the full offseason cause I disagree with this. Its def not a full typical offseason. Stidham will not get to throw to these guys as the starter until TC. Also I am not conviced they run the same system as last year because Stidham is not TB. I just dont see them as being able to have a good passing game at all. we put up a lot of TOs in that game. I think thats what beat us and not that stat line. That’s my point
YattaOkasan Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 Just now, FireChans said: That’s my point Yeah but thats not so much them beating us as it us giving it to them.
ColoradoBills Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Brady didn’t block that punt. So, I’m utterly confident that Stidham is capable of putting up that statline above, and we know that statline can be good enough to beat us. LOL you just keep cowering in the corner if you want. If you don't think just game planning and having Tom Brady on the field compared to a totally unproven rookie QB is equal we have nothing more to discuss. It's not even close.
FireChans Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: LOL you just keep cowering in the corner if you want. If you don't think just game planning and having Tom Brady on the field compared to a totally unproven rookie QB is equal we have nothing more to discuss. It's not even close. You think Brady and a rookie QB are equal?? Stidham isn’t a rookie btw. 23 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said: Yeah but thats not so much them beating us as it us giving it to them. Score read 16-10 Pats. That’s getting beat. I would put a hefty amount of money on us splitting the season series with the Pats this year.
Nextmanup Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 On 5/6/2020 at 9:21 AM, Kirby Jackson said: So, I’ve been posting this in numerous threads for a few months. I know there are some people with me on it and some that think it’s crazy. The Pats are a bad team. They will win 6 games (and that’s with the greatest coach ever). Someone please make a case as to why they are a threat in the division? Please don’t use some lame reason like, “because they are king’s until they are not” or “because they are always good.” Give FOOTBALL reasoning as to why they are good!! My reasoning as to why they are bad is that they have no talent on offense. Their OL is pretty good but lost their legendary coach. They have, at best, a massive question mark at QB. At worst, they have the worst QB situation in the league. The Pats likely have the worst set of skill players in the NFL as well. Some people are saying that they are going to run the ball and play defense. Their backs aren’t good and they will be forced to run against loaded boxes because no one fears their passing game. How does this team generate offense?!? Please, someone, tell me... The secondary is really good. The pass rush isn’t. They lost Collins and Van Noy this offseason as well as Danny Shelton. That’s 3 starters in their front 7. That defense is no longer elite (although it could still be a top 10ish unit). Add that to, statistically, the hardest schedule in the NFL and explain to me what I’m missing? Again, no “because they always are” responses. This team has different players and coaches. I’m asking why THIS team is still a threat? https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NE I’m hoping that this thread inspires some thoughtful conversation. I suspect that the trauma of 20 years of being the nail has people living in fear for no reason. They will hide behind “because Belichick” because that’s the ONLY thing to stand behind. I’m not sure how many games, against that schedule, a great coach is good for? I think that they win 6 because of Belichick. That’s a 4 win team otherwise IMO. I’d love to hear a real football argument those as to why they can win? They're good until they show us they aren't. If BB doesn't get that benefit of the doubt, who does?
YattaOkasan Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: You think Brady and a rookie QB are equal?? Stidham isn’t a rookie btw. Score read 16-10 Pats. That’s getting beat. I would put a hefty amount of money on us splitting the season series with the Pats this year. So you are banking on us turning the ball over that many times again. I don't see us doing that again against them.
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