Yantha Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 1. O-line 2. LB Depth 3. Safety Depth 4. CB could be tied with O-line if Josh Norman doesn't work out. Good to see that most of the "holes" are depth concerns. 1
Buffalo_Stampede Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Yantha said: 1. O-line 2. LB Depth 3. Safety Depth 4. CB could be tied with O-line if Josh Norman doesn't work out. Good to see that most of the "holes" are depth concerns. The entire OL is a hole? 1
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) It would be nice to have a top 10 player on the O-Line somewhere. Morse is probably considered a top 10 center but that’s all we really have. We need some more Elite level players on the O-Line. Edited May 4, 2020 by Call_Of_Ktulu
Thurman#1 Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 9 hours ago, Nihilarian said: Rex did luck into Incognito as no other team wanted to take a chance on him and it paid off with all pro seasons at LG in Buffalo. He made the Bills run game, pass game better. Ryan did attempt to obtain un drafted 6'4'' 320lb OT/OG from LSU, La"el Collins who Ryan wined and dined to lure him to Buffalo. Ultimately though, he chose Dallas. He has been their starting RT the last few seasons. Cam Newton represents one of running QB's that have suffered serious injuries from running the ball as big, tough as that player is...Kinda like someone else we all know. Another would be RG3, Mike Vick who suffered a broken leg on a scramble. However, you are right with Russell Wilson, a 9 year vet hasn't seen anything serious from all his scrambles. This is somewhat an anomaly from what I see as most NFL teams prefer their QB's in the pocket as the percentages from serious injuries favor those pocket passers. Then again, look at Alex Smith... And John Elway. And Fran Tarkenton. And Steve Young. Steve McNair. Donovan McNabb. Aaron Rodgers. The Amish Rifle could and did run and it hasn't come back to haunt him. And plenty of other recent guys who can run who didn't stay in the league because they weren't good enough, rather than because their running caused them injury problems. Kaepernick. Bottles. Gerrard. Mariota seems headed in that direction. There are plenty of running QBs who had long healthy careers. That's a fact. Also plenty of running QBs who didn't. Also a fact. But what you said was, "Cam Newton has proved that running QB's don't last in this league." He didn't do that. What he did was provide an example of a guy with tremendous potential whose career does indeed seem to have been harmed by physical damage, a lot of which was caused by running. Fair enough. He's a reasonable argument. He certainly hasn't proved that running QBs don't last. And I do remember losing out on La'el Collins. I was pissed. Do you really think that this F.O. wouldn't have tried to get him on the roster? I think they would have.
frostbitmic Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) Punter and OC. 12 hours ago, GunnerBill said: This. 100% this. I don't want safe Josh Allen. Or game manager Josh Allen. He just isn't that kind of player. He is at his best as a gunslinger, ball in his hands and playing a bit of hero ball in spots. If the Bills wanted a game manager they drafted the wrong Quarterback. I don't believe they did want that though. Put the ball in Josh's hands and let him throw. Just keep telling him to not turn his back to the defense and to not run backwards. Edited May 4, 2020 by frostbitmic
Thurman#1 Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Nihilarian said: According to what I read, Allen was ranked 11th @ 2.85 which was the same as Russell Wilson. In my view you need to look at the level of competition the Bills faced in 2019 as most teams they played against weren't very good. The better pass rushing teams, the teams with top pass rushers got in Allen's face far, far too often. The Ravens blitzed around 65% of their defensive snaps and Buffalo had no answer...except to keep asking Allen to throw. Which was literally moronic considering that the Bills run game was working. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw Now taking all that into consideration, Football outsiders has Allen as the 2nd most pressured QB in the NFL last season @ a 39.3 pressure rate. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/quarterbacks-and-pressure-2018 The 2020 Bills opponents look to be much more difficult and since the Bills made the playoffs 2 of 3 of the last 3 years, teams will be gunning for them. No more flying under the radar. The line play will be exposed over the course of the season and we will see who is quality and who isn't. I expect major changes coming to the line again after this season. I really don't have much faith in these starters considering the level of competition they faced vs how that line fared against the Patriots, Ravens and how they were all literally manhandled by the Eagles was eye opening to me. Yeah, I hear you that his time to throw was high. I'm saying that a lot of that was on him because he tends to hang onto the ball and look for longer plays. And that when you do that you are basically accepting that you'll get pressure while also possibly getting the chance to make a longer play. Which he sometimes did and sometimes didn't, but which makes the line look bad in terms of the tim-to-throw stat for something that was not their fault. If Allen starts hitting the shorter timing routes instead of holding the ball, we'll likely see the average time go down, as it did this year. In 2018 he was worst in the league, well above 3 seconds per play. Oh, and yeah, it's details, details but I question how well the running game was working against the Ravens. Allen had two runs for nine yards. Gore was stymied. And Singletary's yards per carry look pretty good, but on his 17 carries he had only six went for four or more yards. He had the beautiful 38 yarder, and one really productive second quarter drive, but other than that he was really held in check. Four of his 17 runs were for negative yardage, that's nearly a quarter of his runs. And eight of his 17 runs (more than half) were for two yards or less. And I believe you that the best pass rushing teams got in his face often. They do that to everyone. That's why they're the best pass rushing teams. As for what will happen after this year, I suppose major changes are possible. Dawkins could demand too much money and force his way out of town, though he's a fine player. And while I'm hopeful, it's possible we don't even have one right tackle, never mind two. IMO, though, if RT doesn't look good, that would result in Ford moving to guard and if he replaces someone, my guess is they wouldn't need to make more changes. If Ford succeeds, I could see one of the two guards being replaced from the draft or FA. Maybe two but I doubt it. This line is above average. Far from great, though, but they might easily get better just from Ford figuring things out, Nsekhe staying healthy and from increased familiarity. And no, I'm not satisfied with above average. I'd like to see excellence. But I'm also not unhappy with this o-line. My guess is they'll work towards excellence, on the OL and at every position group. Edited May 4, 2020 by Thurman#1
Nihilarian Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Oh, and yeah, it's details, details but I question how well the running game was working against the Ravens. Allen had two runs for nine yards. Gore was stymied. And Singletary's yards per carry look pretty good, but on his 17 carries he had only six went for four or more yards. He had the beautiful 38 yarder, and one really productive second quarter drive, but other than that he was really held in check. Four of his 17 runs were for negative yardage, that's nearly a quarter of his runs. And eight of his 17 runs (more than half) were for two yards or less. When you look at the drive charts you see the Bills started the game by running. Attempting some deep passes to counter that known Ravens 50% of defensive snaps blitzing. First series, Singletary one yard, Singletary 5 yards so 3rd and 4. Incomplete deep pass. PUNT Second series, Singletary -2 yards, sack, 3rd and 12 incomplete deep pass, PUNT Third series, pass complete 10 yards, short pass incomplete, deep pass incomplete, 3rd and 10 deep pass incomplete, PUNT Fourth series, Gore 2 yards, short pass incomplete, 3rd and 8 sacked, fumble recovered by Baltimore. Six series, 2nd quarter. short pass incomplete, penalty roughing the passer. 1st and 10. Singletary 6 yards, Singletary 3 yards, 3rd down and 1, Singletary 8 yards... First down! Singletary 3 yards, Singletary 14 yards... First down! Singletary 9 yards, Allen run 2 yards... First down! First and 10 at the Ravens 13 yard line. Short pass -4 yards, Singletary -1 yard. 3rd down and 15, Pass incomplete deep, FG. Alright, in my view this series proved that the run game will work if you commit to it, 7 straight runs all leading to first downs and score with a FG. The next series, pass incomplete deep, Gore gains 6, pass complete 6 yards, pass complete no gain, Gore no gain, Allen sacked -7 yards.PUNT With the run game showing that it can work with Singletary, the Bills started utilizing Gore for some reason in this series and in the next in the 2 min drill they started passing more again. FG. We know Singletary wasn't injured because he had that 38 yard run in the 4th. It seemed to me that the Bills OC was determined to make that passing game work against that Ravens defense, regardless. What happened after the half was that the Bills went pass happy with 26 pass drop backs vs 8 only runs the entire second half. At this point in the game that Ravens defense had really taken over the game and had the Bills linemen on their heels. Hence, Singletary in the second half, 2 yards, 1 yard, 5 yards, 2 yards, 38 yards, no gain, -3 yards, 2 yards. As we all know, that usually, the more a team runs the ball the better the RB does over the course of the game. Also, the weaker the opposing defense is against the run later in the game as it wears them down. Most NFL running backs want to see 20 plus runs. It's my contention that Devin Singletary was underutilized in the run game all season in comparison to other teams starting RB's like Minnesota's Dalvin Cook, Tennessee's Derrick Henry. Singletary with an yard per carry average as good as Henry's at 5.1 per. The way the Ravens had stepped up their blitzing to 65% of every offensive play after the first few series it made no sense to me to keep asking Allen to keep throwing the ball. Josh Allen is not at the level of an elite pocket passer and shouldn't be asked to carry the team with his arm. When a defense is blitzing this much I just can't wrap my head around why an OC would not pound the ball more to counter that blitzing. I don't see this game as a QB fail given his limited playing experience. A lot of veteran players on that O line and an experienced OC. You tell me! This has me somewhat perplexed as the Bills did have that one very productive series by running the ball with Singletary, then went to Gore for some reason who had 4 carries for 6 yards. Then back to Singletary sporadically over the course of the second half. If looking at this game doesn't have you very concerned about the Buffalo Bills offensive line play with the current starters, I don't know what would. Spain, Dawkins, Feliciano, Ford, Morse all 100% snap count. Allen 6 sacks, 12 QB hits. The QB under constant pressure all game. The Bills got the run game working for one series and then went away from it. Can't sack the QB if you are running the ball.
SydneyBillsFan Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 On 5/4/2020 at 10:38 AM, Cruiserplayer said: The challenge consultant should be replaced . What?.....NO WAY!!!
Fan in Chicago Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 On 5/3/2020 at 4:24 PM, Buffalo03 said: I would say the LB spot left open by losing Lorenzo Alexander. I'm excited to see what Vosean Joseph brings but maybe we can bring in a vet on a minimal contract for a year? The rest of the defense and the rest of the team for that matter is about as close to set as it can be except this one spot I think. Milano on one end, Edmunds in the middle and maybe someone like Clay Matthews on a one year cheap deal? He had 8 sacks and 2 forced fumbles last year in 13 games. He's 34 and obviously not completely what he once was but on a one year minimal deal and bringing a veteran presence and solid production last year. Why not? We might feel good about what we have although we did have Kirksey come in for a visit so, who knows? RT (with TE close behind as I dont trust Knox yet) 1
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 On 5/3/2020 at 7:31 PM, njbuff said: Shorter thread titles. Get off your lawn ? On 5/3/2020 at 7:48 PM, Thurman#1 said: Yup, He was pressured a lot. He was also one of the QBs who held the ball longest, as ranked from quickest to slowest, he was 29th, as per Next Gen Stats. It's not difficult to see that there is likely to be a bit of correlation there. Hold the ball longer and you make the job of the OL harder. In fairness it goes the other way too. This OL wasn't bad by any means. But equally they sure weren't great. What they were was professional. Slightly above average, possibly? Hopefully they'll be better this year with a year together under their belts to gel and perhaps someone beating someone else out by playing better. We don't have any journeymen as starters. You're right, though that we also don't have any All-Pros. But I'd argue that Rex lucked into Incognito as he was available cheap. Credit to him for reaching out to Richie, but if Incognito hadn't lost it, he'd likely still be here. This regime loved having him till it became impracticable. Can you point out any Richie Incognitos out there for being picked up? I can't. But Cam Newton didn't prove that running QBs don't last in this league. He proved that some running QBs don't last in this league. All you have to do is look at Russell Wilson to see that it's possible to last. But fair enough that it can be dangerous. 100 % agree. Throwing guys open is something he learns quickly and processing is the perfect word for what he can't do very well, yet.
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 14 hours ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said: They should have also reminded everyone that Allen held the ball for an incredibly long time because no receiver could get open. Shhhhhh. You get blasted for saying anything negative about #17. And as you can see very few, if any, are not posting the really biggest question mark on the team: #17 1
billsfan_34 Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 On 5/3/2020 at 5:39 PM, scuba guy said: Most people on the board would still say lb but others will note that we play nickel a lot But with lo who knows what he was playing he had so many roles With that said stronger rt play I think Joseph is going to be a stud- many forget about him
GreggTX Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 RT, RG, WLB, outside CB opposite White, slot CB and we need 1 of our TE's to step up and play like a starter. A LT upgrade would allow Dawkins to move inside. A RT upgrade would allow Ford to move inside. P and PK are also a concern. Of course, we need Josh Allen to take an even bigger step this year than he did last year if we're ever going to get deep into the playoffs let alone hoist the Lombardi Trophy. He needs to raise his passing efficiency by a good 10 points or hopefully 20. I keep seeing the words "good enough" when discussing our position strength. We need to start thinking beyond that. Why Beane hasn't gotten serious about addressing our OL this offseason is beyond me. He had plenty of cap space to do it. Spain and Dawkins are both pretty average. Morse is slightly above average. Feliciano is slightly below average and Ford is a turnstile on the outside. Williams suffered a terrible knee injury and played very poorly last year, so I don't know if he'll ever be any good again. One other concern is for Singletary's and Allen's fumbling. They need to get that under control.
Yantha Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 19 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: The entire OL is a hole? No of course not. I would say that OG and OT depth is very weak. Spencer Long, and Ty Nsheke could use an upgrade IMO. I would have been happy if we picked OG and OT in the draft. A few youngsters that could push the starters. But the draft has to "fall" that way (and it didn't). There was only one round where I had an OG as my top pick and Beane went another way. That's okay. We will survive. 8 hours ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said: Shhhhhh. You get blasted for saying anything negative about #17. And as you can see very few, if any, are not posting the really biggest question mark on the team: #17 lol. I've noticed that. But I really don''t blame Allen, honestly. Our starting WR's last year didn't exactly strike fear in opponents and if Allen is holding the ball, it's because he doesn't see anyone open. 1
Big Turk Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) On 5/3/2020 at 5:24 PM, Buffalo03 said: I would say the LB spot left open by losing Lorenzo Alexander. I'm excited to see what Vosean Joseph brings but maybe we can bring in a vet on a minimal contract for a year? The rest of the defense and the rest of the team for that matter is about as close to set as it can be except this one spot I think. Milano on one end, Edmunds in the middle and maybe someone like Clay Matthews on a one year cheap deal? He had 8 sacks and 2 forced fumbles last year in 13 games. He's 34 and obviously not completely what he once was but on a one year minimal deal and bringing a veteran presence and solid production last year. Why not? We might feel good about what we have although we did have Kirksey come in for a visit so, who knows? We just signed AJ Klein to fill that role. How is that a hole? 20 hours ago, Yantha said: 1. O-line 2. LB Depth 3. Safety Depth 4. CB could be tied with O-line if Josh Norman doesn't work out. Good to see that most of the "holes" are depth concerns. I don't see the OLine as a hole...I see it as likely trending sharply upward if only for continuity. In a pretty wide ranging analytic study the highest correlation found in relation to good OLine play was continuity. Edited May 5, 2020 by matter2003 1
Buffalo_Stampede Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 33 minutes ago, Yantha said: No of course not. I would say that OG and OT depth is very weak. Spencer Long, and Ty Nsheke could use an upgrade IMO. I would have been happy if we picked OG and OT in the draft. A few youngsters that could push the starters. But the draft has to "fall" that way (and it didn't). There was only one round where I had an OG as my top pick and Beane went another way. That's okay. We will survive. lol. I've noticed that. But I really don''t blame Allen, honestly. Our starting WR's last year didn't exactly strike fear in opponents and if Allen is holding the ball, it's because he doesn't see anyone open. Both players IMO are good depth. The 1 hole on OL I see is starting RT. Hopefully someone can solidify that position. Everyone else is at least average for their role. 1
T master Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 On 5/3/2020 at 4:24 PM, Buffalo03 said: I would say the LB spot left open by losing Lorenzo Alexander. I'm excited to see what Vosean Joseph brings but maybe we can bring in a vet on a minimal contract for a year? The rest of the defense and the rest of the team for that matter is about as close to set as it can be except this one spot I think. Milano on one end, Edmunds in the middle and maybe someone like Clay Matthews on a one year cheap deal? He had 8 sacks and 2 forced fumbles last year in 13 games. He's 34 and obviously not completely what he once was but on a one year minimal deal and bringing a veteran presence and solid production last year. Why not? We might feel good about what we have although we did have Kirksey come in for a visit so, who knows? Well at least Beane is working on it he brought in A.J. Klein, Mike Bell, Tyler (which he is ST's) plus Joseph then isn't Mike Love a LB ? he was having a really good preseason last yr when his injury hit him, hopefully he can come back to form this season so it's not like the cupboard is bare but knowing Beane he's still hard at it & will find a few more besides those already on the team .
Fan in Chicago Posted May 5, 2020 Posted May 5, 2020 9 hours ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said: Shhhhhh. You get blasted for saying anything negative about #17. And as you can see very few, if any, are not posting the really biggest question mark on the team: #17 Why this passive aggressive posting style ? - The debate has been fair on both sides of the aisle regarding Allen's strengths and weaknesses. Where have posters been "blasted" for writing against Allen ? I rarely see posters claiming he is the final answer for the team - The thread is about a "hole" which does not equate entirely to "question mark" or a weakness. IMO, hole is a position which is weak. Allen has at least stabilized the position to the point that it is not a weakness. - You should consider that not many are posting about the "biggest question mark" because most dont consider it to be so - If you feel it is the biggest hole, by all means say it and present supporting evidence. The above line is tiresome and annoying
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