BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 14 hours ago, Shaw66 said: First, it's funny how a thread about the receivers inevitably turns into a thread about Allen, but it's to be expected. Second, I disagree with your opinion, but I really like your last sentence. At the end of the day, all each of has is an opinion, and yours is that Allen doesn't have what it takes to be a successful NFL QB. I think you're ignoring too much evidence to the contrary, but all that is is my opinion. There's enough evidence to support your opinion, so I get that you can feel that way. So I assume you also think that Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield don't have the goods, because they have performed demonstrably worse that Allen, and also that Kyler Murray is at least on your watch list, because his first season was not materially different from Allen's second. I think that means you must be in the camp that says if a QB isn't in the top 10 by his second season, he doesn't have the goods. So that would mean you wouldn't want Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck or Drew Brees, all of whom took more than two years to emerge. Josh Allen's 2019 passing stats were better than Tom Brady's for each of the first three years that Brady started. He didn't have the goods, either? So what is it, exactly that you think is missing from Allen's game, the thing that will keep him forever from becoming a top 10 quarterback, the thing that Stafford and Ryan and Brees and Brady showed they had in their first few years starting? Many fans fail to recognize that most successful NFL quarterbacks take multiple years, three, four, five years, to learn to compete at a high level in the NFL. They fail to recognize that early success of Mitch Trubisky, Derek Carr, Carson Wentz, RGIII hasn't translated into consistent success. Bottom line for me is that it's too early to tell about Allen. He improved through his rookie season, and he improved through his second season, so there's no good reason to conclude that he's done improving. Why would you assume that ??????? HORRIBLY WRONG, but if you want to use the straw man for your argument, more power to you. Josh is one of the dumbest in game QB's I've seen. The bonehead plays are not because of youth, he just doesn't understand the position. Ummmm, also he is very, very, very inaccurate. Diggs may be asking for a trade by game 6 if Allen doesn't figure it out. If he could have sat behind a high football IQ QB for a couple years maybe he would understand the position better. But that won't help his accuracy. anything else you want to assume since you know me better than I know myself ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said: Why would you assume that ??????? HORRIBLY WRONG, but if you want to use the straw man for your argument, more power to you. Josh is one of the dumbest in game QB's I've seen. The bonehead plays are not because of youth, he just doesn't understand the position. Ummmm, also he is very, very, very inaccurate. Diggs may be asking for a trade by game 6 if Allen doesn't figure it out. If he could have sat behind a high football IQ QB for a couple years maybe he would understand the position better. But that won't help his accuracy. anything else you want to assume since you know me better than I know myself ? Hey now, it takes most QB’s four to five years to learn how to play QB. Except for Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Patrick Mahomes, Phillip Rivers, Dak Prescott, Peyton Manning, Deshaun Watson, Matt Ryan, etc etc. All I know is that if Watson and Mahomes are doing all this without knowing how to play QB yet, we are in big big trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 13 hours ago, eball said: It's interesting you bring up Wentz. While he unquestionably has put up better numbers than Josh so far at the same respective point in their careers, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest he is a bigger risk than Josh right now because of the significant injury history. I agree there is a lot of click-bait out there, but the "Josh Allen is/will be a bust" crowd was VERY vocal. . I would take my chances with Wentz in a straight up deal for #17. You ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxum Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 25 minutes ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said: . I would take my chances with Wentz in a straight up deal for #17. You ? Me? Absolutely no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) On 5/4/2020 at 6:59 AM, Shaw66 said: Second, I disagree with your opinion, but I really like your last sentence. At the end of the day, all each of has is an opinion, and yours is that Allen doesn't have what it takes to be a successful NFL QB. I think you're ignoring too much evidence to the contrary, but all that is is my opinion. There's enough evidence to support your opinion, so I get that you can feel that way. So I assume you also think that Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield don't have the goods, because they have performed demonstrably worse that Allen, and also that Kyler Murray is at least on your watch list, because his first season was not materially different from Allen's second. I think that means you must be in the camp that says if a QB isn't in the top 10 by his second season, he doesn't have the goods. So that would mean you wouldn't want Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck or Drew Brees, all of whom took more than two years to emerge. Josh Allen's 2019 passing stats were better than Tom Brady's for each of the first three years that Brady started. He didn't have the goods, either? I just want to apologize for the smart a$$ remarks I have made over something so insignificant as our differing opinions on the abilities and future success of Josh. I have done this on other topics as well, so sorry to anyone I got personal with. I have been a fan, and a fan in attendance since 1965 (5 years old) and just want a Super Bowl before I die. Disagreeing and disagreeing a lot in this case, should never get personal. It's easy to be a keyboard bully. I initially had been attacked for not being on board with Josh after his play this season, so I responded in kind. But that is really no excuse for being an a$$. Just Win1B4IDIE ! Edited May 5, 2020 by MOVALLEYRANDY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 12 hours ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said: . I would take my chances with Wentz in a straight up deal for #17. You ? I would want to watch a lot more film of Wentz before I agreed to that deal. I'd want to watch a lot of film on almost everyone. There are only two guys who, subject to film study, I'd trade even up for: Mahomes and Watson. Darnold is maybe. Mayfield, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray are nos, subject to some more study. My view about this is that these young guys have 15 seasons ahead of them, and the really great quarterbacks generally don't become really great until 6-7-8 years out. Russell Wilson may be the best exception, but it took Manning and Brady and Rodgers and Brees years to become real masters of the game. So the task with all these youngsters is to try to project them 6-7 years into the future. I can see Mahomes and Watson and Allen as being at that next level. I don't see any of the others there, but admittedly this is real crystal ball stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: I think your exaggerating a bit, but there are times where Josh does something unbelievably idiotic and I really struggle to be convinced that it’s just a result of youth..... considering those same boneheaded plays he still does now he was doing at Wyoming. It might just be who he is. I'VE ONLY BEEN ACCUSED OF EXAGGERATING ONCE, (a day), IN MY ENTIRE LIFE. Agree with this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 It is a nice looking receivers group, Nice upgrade at the #1 with Diggs, who will take some pressure off Brown and Beasley, not to mention two good prospects to bring along that can catch anything thrown to them. With the two new guys we can trade/cut Foster and McKenzie, and still have more than enough talent to run jet sweeps and cover STs needs, we could as well potentially deal Roberts who is really only a KR, being that we already have the talent to fill that position on the roster as well. This all bodes well for the season. More catches = more passing yards that = more points which = more wins. All of which boost QB stats as well. Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 hour ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said: I just want to apologize for the smart a$$ remarks I have made over something so insignificant as our differing opinions on the abilities and future success of Josh. I have done this on other topics as well, so sorry to anyone I got personal with. I have been a fan, and a fan in attendance since 1965 (5 years old) and just want a Super Bowl before I die. Disagreeing and disagreeing a lot in this case, should never get personal. It's easy to be a keyboard bully. I initially had been attacked for not being on board with Josh after his play this season, so I responded in kind. But that is really no excuse for being an a$$. Just Win1B4IDIE ! No need to apologize. As I said in response to your post, you save yourself with this: I hope I am wrong but I just don't see this guy as having the goods. We're all just fans, and all we have are opinions. I get kind of argumentative sometimes and in retrospect wish I hadn't. One reason I come here is that I find that in the give and take some information perspectives on the team or players come out, and in the process I learn more. Even though it's in the wrong thread, I love this discussion about who you would trade Allen for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 What is with this perception that only Allen makes boneheaded WTF throws in the NFL and that's why he sucks? How many of his plays from scrimmage grade as fails relative to the rest of the league? Does anyone even watch other teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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