Final result of the Marcel Dareus trade for Buffalo:

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, Rico said:

Yeah, neither of them needed all the proper nurturing/developing and veteran support group that MD needed & that this trainwreck of an organization at the time just couldn't provide. By the time McBeane came along and started cleaning up the mess, it was too late, he was already damaged goods. Damn shame.

 

It was one of the worst situations for MD to be in. Mario was one of the worst influences, the organization early on was cheap and not able to develop him mentally, and then when Rex and new ownership took over he had a big contract, bad influences on and off the team, and an inflated head. It was just destined to be a train wreck long term despite his amazing ability. 

[CheshireCT]

19 hours ago, somnus00 said:

 

I agree with you that he was troubled. I too hope things get better for him. He suffered terrible losses as well.

 

But I feel that you could see this on the field at Alabama. Just went through the motions at times. Physical abilities were not the problem.

 

I know this is just a game we're talking about. He had more important things going on.

 

But respectfully, I don't think his career was solid for the #3 overall pick. You need a superstar at that pick. I appreciate your comments by the way. Our opinions aren't that far apart, I feel.

 

Thanks for that. I agree also, the result did not live up to #3.

[Bob in STL]

14 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

It was one of the worst situations for MD to be in. Mario was one of the worst influences, the organization early on was cheap and not able to develop him mentally, and then when Rex and new ownership took over he had a big contract, bad influences on and off the team, and an inflated head. It was just destined to be a train wreck long term despite his amazing ability. 

Dareus had some hardships to overcome right from the start and some of it was not his own doing.   However, let's not forget that Dareus did not help himself either and he created a lot of problems with his off field behavior.  His work ethic was poor and he was easily distracted.  Definitely not a true professional and clearly someone who took his job and the team for granted.  You can blame Mario, Rex, the old regime but Marone took a gamble on him for the 2nd time and now his contract is expired and he is a free agent looking for work. 

 

So while Dareus is, or was, a top talent, he is the opposite of the kind of player that Beane and McD want here.   The current regime drafts players that already think "Team First" and that already are motivated to be the best they can be.  Trying to re-hab players is not something they want do to.  They  prefer to find players that are self motivated team players before they walk in the door. 

 

I would make the trade all over again.  Dumping his contract put us in a position to be successful for years to come. 

[Jauronimo]

I was highly critical of this move at the time and still think the timing was stupid.  I was similarly critical of the handling of Watkins contract and the eventual trade that looked like treading water.  I was supportive of the Kelvin Benjamin trade which may have been the biggest mistake of Beane's tenure.

 

Year's later my opinions have not changed that much.  My biggest takeaway is that the culture McD and Beane have established, the locker room, and the scouting department is strong enough to overcome some misses.  The foundation for sustained success appears to be in place.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Dareus had all the tools to be one of the best DT’s ever. He has lived a difficult life and I hope things get better for him.

[FireChans]

47 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I was highly critical of this move at the time and still think the timing was stupid.  I was similarly critical of the handling of Watkins contract and the eventual trade that looked like treading water.  I was supportive of the Kelvin Benjamin trade which may have been the biggest mistake of Beane's tenure.

 

Year's later my opinions have not changed that much.  My biggest takeaway is that the culture McD and Beane have established, the locker room, and the scouting department is strong enough to overcome some misses.  The foundation for sustained success appears to be in place.

To this day, I will never understand the thought process of dealing his fifth year option then trading Sammy. Just really stupid.

[DrDawkinstein]

16 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

It is hard to say that AJ Green or Julio Jones wouldn't have been better picks at #3 but at the time Dareus was considered as sure fire high ceiling low floor type prospect as you could get at a position where the Bills needed a lot of help at. 

 

 

With 20/20 hindsight, the right move would have been to take the Falcons to the cleaners since they were desperately trying to trade up ahead of the Bengals to land AJ Green and keep Green in Georgia (before settling on trading up for Julio Jones). Bills trade back for a slew of picks and take Cam Jordan.

 

But correct, at the time, Dareus was the consensus #3 pick.

17 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Go back and check the tape, almost everyone on this board wanted the Bills to sign Dareus to an extension. 

Beane signed a guy that quit at halftime and gave millions to an injured PED cheat.

None of them are perfect judges of character 

 

Of course, and the Bills/Whaley didnt really have a choice.

 

Even with the character issues being known, whats the other option? Letting the highest pick the Bills had in over a decade walk with no compensation? Not gonna happen. Had to take the risk.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

With 20/20 hindsight, the right move would have been to take the Falcons to the cleaners since they were desperately trying to trade up ahead of the Bengals to land AJ Green and keep Green in Georgia (before settling on trading up for Julio Jones). Bills trade back for a slew of picks and take Cam Jordan.

 

But correct, at the time, Dareus was the consensus #3 pick.

 

Of course, and the Bills/Whaley didnt really have a choice.

 

Even with the character issues being known, whats the other option? Letting the highest pick the Bills had in over a decade walk with no compensation? Not gonna happen. Had to take the risk.

According you and many others here, Dareus was the consensus #2 pick, over Von Miller ? good times 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 5/1/2020 at 4:44 PM, aceman_16 said:

And saved a TON of money on a lazy slob.

 

I know they paid him his base salary the rest of 2017 and i think they restructured 2018/2019.  Either way, IIRC 2018 was a fully guaranteed base salary so i assume it was a lot.  

 

2 and a half years for about 40something million from buffalo.  Jags paid him about 23 for 2 and a half years.   Now hes a FA and no one wants him. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I was highly critical of this move at the time and still think the timing was stupid.  I was similarly critical of the handling of Watkins contract and the eventual trade that looked like treading water.  I was supportive of the Kelvin Benjamin trade which may have been the biggest mistake of Beane's tenure.

 

Year's later my opinions have not changed that much.  My biggest takeaway is that the culture McD and Beane have established, the locker room, and the scouting department is strong enough to overcome some misses.  The foundation for sustained success appears to be in place.

 

Yeah - Dareus was not without problems either.  The suspensions, drug arrest, drag racing... 

 

I don't think that Beane and McD like wrote him off either - I believe he was given every chance to play and contribute, and he just was not buying in.  Scheme fit doesn't really make sense as a complaint either, I think he should have been able to play a phillips like role as a 3T - but they had him at nose because he was way too heavy.  He didn't want to be here so... trading him for nothing allows you to accelerate cap penalty into 2017, and dump the guaranteed salary in 2018 and beyond.  Double win. 

 

With Watkins, I think a lot of it came down to availability from injury - and maximizing a previous investment.  They had no intention of re-signing him, and getting the pick they got was much better than forcing yourself to work the comp pick formula.  Ragland wasn't a scheme fit.  Darby wasn't either.  

[Jauronimo]

32 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Yeah - Dareus was not without problems either.  The suspensions, drug arrest, drag racing... 

 

I don't think that Beane and McD like wrote him off either - I believe he was given every chance to play and contribute, and he just was not buying in.  Scheme fit doesn't really make sense as a complaint either, I think he should have been able to play a phillips like role as a 3T - but they had him at nose because he was way too heavy.  He didn't want to be here so... trading him for nothing allows you to accelerate cap penalty into 2017, and dump the guaranteed salary in 2018 and beyond.  Double win. 

 

With Watkins, I think a lot of it came down to availability from injury - and maximizing a previous investment.  They had no intention of re-signing him, and getting the pick they got was much better than forcing yourself to work the comp pick formula.  Ragland wasn't a scheme fit.  Darby wasn't either.  

Dareus showing up late to the pre-season game vs. Baltimore sealed his fate.   From that point on his days in Buffalo were numbered.  Most of us knew that unless he found Jesus then he wasn't in the team's long-term plans.  As @C.Biscuit97 pointed out, the timing made no sense to many of us.  I believe McD and Beane had no real intention of competing that season and did expect us to be winning games at that point.

 

The Watkins handling was a debacle.  Partly because there was no GM in place when the decision was up on Watkins 5th year option.  McDermott made the call on not extending as it was before Beane was hired.  I think they could have gotten a better package had they executed his 5th year and then traded him.  Can't fault Beane for dealing with the aftermath.

 

Ironically, the move everyone loved was the biggest whiff.  How were they so far off about Kelvin Benjamin?  

 

Given the way everything worked out, I can't say I care a whole lot.  I do wonder from time to time what this team looks like if we could have had our GM and head coach in place before the 2017 draft, but I have no complaints with where they're at right now.

[Billl]

On 5/2/2020 at 10:48 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I still fail to see how the timing of the Dareus trade was a good move.  It literally makes no sense to do a salary dump in the middle of a season when you are competing for the playoffs.  Especially at a position that was a huge weakness.  
 

McBeane has done some really good things but I think people fall all over themselves to praise them.  The Jags almost went to the SB with Dareus.  The Bills lost to the Jags 10-3.  Maybe if they have Dareus and kept Sammy instead of scrubs like Jordan Matthews and fat Kelvin, they win that game and go on a playoff run. 

This thread is revisionist history at it’s finest.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

With 20/20 hindsight, the right move would have been to take the Falcons to the cleaners since they were desperately trying to trade up ahead of the Bengals to land AJ Green and keep Green in Georgia (before settling on trading up for Julio Jones). Bills trade back for a slew of picks and take Cam Jordan.

 

But correct, at the time, Dareus was the consensus #3 pick.

 

Of course, and the Bills/Whaley didnt really have a choice.

 

Even with the character issues being known, whats the other option? Letting the highest pick the Bills had in over a decade walk with no compensation? Not gonna happen. Had to take the risk.

That was my point. But read this thread. People act like it was stupid decision to sign Dareus to an extension. It wasn't at the time and almost everyone on here celebrated when he signed extension.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 5/3/2020 at 6:16 PM, billsfan89 said:

 

It is hard to say that AJ Green or Julio Jones wouldn't have been better picks at #3 but at the time Dareus was considered as sure fire high ceiling low floor type prospect as you could get at a position where the Bills needed a lot of help at. 

 

Almost Everyone wanted the Bills to take him or Von Miller whomever was there at pick 3 and sign him to an extension. I am not sure if Mario being on the team and Rex showing up right when he got the extension made things worse? It was just such a drastic fall off form 2015-2017 from 2013-2014. In 2014 Dareus followed a Pro-Bowl caliber 2013 season by being one of the top 2-3 DT's in the league behind Suh and McCoy. He was 25 why wouldn't you want to keep that guy? 

Exaclty my point. Revisionist history to blame Whaley for signing him to extension. 

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

They got a 5th for Dareus and dumped his salary to use it on Star. Meh. Not sure what's so impressive. 

 

My guess is Star would have trouble finding a team just like Dareus if he was released. 

 

Star would get a one year deal from some team that runs a similar scheme. Just because he has been overpaid the past 2 seasons doesn't mean he doesn't have value and the fact that he is by all accounts not an issue in the locker room makes him easier to sign. Dareus comes with a toxic reputation one that coaches don't want to bring into the locker room. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Dareus showing up late to the pre-season game vs. Baltimore sealed his fate.   From that point on his days in Buffalo were numbered.  Most of us knew that unless he found Jesus then he wasn't in the team's long-term plans.  As @C.Biscuit97 pointed out, the timing made no sense to many of us.  I believe McD and Beane had no real intention of competing that season and did expect us to be winning games at that point.

 

The Watkins handling was a debacle.  Partly because there was no GM in place when the decision was up on Watkins 5th year option.  McDermott made the call on not extending as it was before Beane was hired.  I think they could have gotten a better package had they executed his 5th year and then traded him.  Can't fault Beane for dealing with the aftermath.

 

Ironically, the move everyone loved was the biggest whiff.  How were they so far off about Kelvin Benjamin?  

 

Given the way everything worked out, I can't say I care a whole lot.  I do wonder from time to time what this team looks like if we could have had our GM and head coach in place before the 2017 draft, but I have no complaints with where they're at right now.

 

I think at the time - with Tyrod's refusal to throw 50/50 balls, maybe they thought KB could jumpstart the offense a bit?

[Estro]

Marcell is currently an unsigned FA.  After making $87M over his NFL career, you have to wonder if he'll sign on somewhere this season.

[DrDawkinstein]

15 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Dareus showing up late to the pre-season game vs. Baltimore sealed his fate.   From that point on his days in Buffalo were numbered.  Most of us knew that unless he found Jesus then he wasn't in the team's long-term plans.  As @C.Biscuit97 pointed out, the timing made no sense to many of us.  I believe McD and Beane had no real intention of competing that season and did expect us to be winning games at that point.

 

The Watkins handling was a debacle.  Partly because there was no GM in place when the decision was up on Watkins 5th year option.  McDermott made the call on not extending as it was before Beane was hired.  I think they could have gotten a better package had they executed his 5th year and then traded him.  Can't fault Beane for dealing with the aftermath.

 

Ironically, the move everyone loved was the biggest whiff.  How were they so far off about Kelvin Benjamin?  

 

Given the way everything worked out, I can't say I care a whole lot.  I do wonder from time to time what this team looks like if we could have had our GM and head coach in place before the 2017 draft, but I have no complaints with where they're at right now.

 

 

Ding Ding Ding!

 

Making the playoffs that year was the most Billsiest thing to happen, considering it was the one year the new GM was actually focused on next years draft and getting their QB.

 

The Dareus trade, Watkins trade, and deciding in November to start Peterman for 4 games all make that pretty clear.

 

The good news is, they made the playoffs and got the monkey off our back, AND still got their QB.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Ding Ding Ding!

 

Making the playoffs that year was the most Billsiest thing to happen, considering it was the one year the new GM was actually focused on next years draft and getting their QB.

 

The Dareus trade, Watkins trade, and deciding in November to start Peterman for 4 games all make that pretty clear.

 

The good news is, they made the playoffs and got the monkey off our back, AND still got their QB.

 

Right?  Once we got Allen I think i truly understood the failure of Nix/Whaley.  You can get your QB in a variety of ways - they settled.  

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Right?  Once we got Allen I think i truly understood the failure of Nix/Whaley.  You can get your QB in a variety of ways - they settled.  

 

In some fairness to them, I've gone back and looked at those 2011-2014 years and can't really find the QB they "should have" gotten.

 

Passing over Russell Wilson in the 3rd for TJ Graham is the only missed QB I could find. Other than him, there werent any options that were any better than EJ (and even with EJ, they traded down to 17 and still got him). I guess maybe Kirk Cousins too, but not sure how he would have worked out in Buffalo. That's about it. It was just a dark time for QB prospects.

 

Same goes for when the Bills were trying to replace Kelly. I recently went back and looked at the draft classes from 1995-1998. Holy BARF. Pretty much zero successful QBs came into the league during that window, up until Peyton in 1998.

Edited May 5, 2020 by DrDawkinstein