Phil The Thrill Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Bob in STL said: Getting rid of that contract was huge. Dump it when you can. Dareus helped them for one year, and then he went back to being the typically unreliable Dareus. Getting rid of that salary help us to rebuild. He believes that if the Bills held onto him and traded him after the season, they’d get HOF’er value. I believe It’s foolish to assume that if the Bills kept an underperforming Dareus on the team for another season it could have had an adverse effect.
hjnick Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 On 5/1/2020 at 3:42 PM, warrior9 said: We initially traded Dareus for a sixth round conditional pick that turned into a fifth. The initial fifth round pick turned out to be Wyatt Teller. The Bills then traded Wyatt teller and a 7th for this year's 5th and 6th round draft picks. When all is said and done the Bills traded Marcel Dareus and recieve Jake Fromm, Tyler Bass Damn, Beane is playing 5D chess against these other GM's.
CheshireCT Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 On 5/2/2020 at 12:28 AM, somnus00 said: At the time, I hated the Dareus pick. I wanted Watt there (even at 3), or a trade down for Cameron Jordan. My 2 favorite D-line prospects in that draft. I saw Dareus as a 2 down DT. You don't spend the 3rd overall pick on a 2 down player in my opinion. Dareus was a day one starter and incredible talent who played at a high level even as "lazy" as he was. He dealt with a massive train of tragedies in a short period of time and he just couldn't cope with it. Whaley and the Bills staff at the time knew what he was dealing with and they were doing their best to help him and encourage him. It was a solid draft choice that didn't go as planned for anyone. I give my best wishes to Marcel, that he can recover and lead a good life whether he plays football again or not. 2
aristocrat Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 man if bass ends up becoming a justin tucker booming leg type guy we win this trade by a country mile.
Mango Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 10 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: He believes that if the Bills held onto him and traded him after the season, they’d get HOF’er value. I believe It’s foolish to assume that if the Bills kept an underperforming Dareus on the team for another season it could have had an adverse effect. It wouldn’t have increased any return but it would have helped our dead cap situation.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 10 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: If you read my comments here you know I don’t pretend every move is the greatest. But unlike some, I give this Bills administration a lot of credit for the job they’ve done. It seems like everything you write is critical. Im regards to trading Dareus being a “genius” move, I never said that. But if you remember in the summer of 2017, many in the NFL said it would be nearly impossible to move a slumping and lazy Dareus given this cap hit - if that’s why people are giving Beane props - that’s why. I said it was the right move which you again dismissed failing to take into account the reasons why keeping him was problematic. Again, it’s about changing culture and it happens all of the time. Also you can stop pretending that Dareus deserves the lion-share of credit for the Bills 4-2 record (he was playing less than 50% of the defensive snaps) or Jacksonville’s run defense who had already had a tremendous defensive line. To make either of these correlations is just using junk data for your confirmation bias Your anti-Beane bias shines loud and clear through threads like this. Oh please. If anything, I’m the most honest and clear thinking poster on this board. If a move is good, I will call it good. If it sucks, I will say it sucks. Defensively, I pretty much love every move they have made minus signing Star and Trent Murphy. Offensively, they have struggled. The qb situation has been very weak to bad. They traded for scrubs like Benjamin and Matthews and passed them off as starters. And they love paying veterans rbs who were washed up millions of dollars. 10 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: He believes that if the Bills held onto him and traded him after the season, they’d get HOF’er value. I believe It’s foolish to assume that if the Bills kept an underperforming Dareus on the team for another season it could have had an adverse effect. Yeah, now you’re just making stuff up.
Phil The Thrill Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Oh please. If anything, I’m the most honest and clear thinking poster on this board. If a move is good, I will call it good. If it sucks, I will say it sucks. Defensively, I pretty much love every move they have made minus signing Star and Trent Murphy. Offensively, they have struggled. The qb situation has been very weak to bad. They traded for scrubs like Benjamin and Matthews and passed them off as starters. And they love paying veterans rbs who were washed up millions of dollars. Yeah, now you’re just making stuff up. How am I making stuff up? You said they could have gotten more of a return by trading him the next season. This is a very presumptuous, and likely, an inaccurate statement
DCofNC Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 On 5/1/2020 at 4:48 PM, IronMaidenBills said: And to think we could have had AJ Green or Julio Jones... wtf Either would have been great to have along with all the other studs that were picked after him. That said, he did have an all-pro season, so it wasn't the talent that was the issue. Also, when he came out, people raved about his character and he was seen as the safest pick. Goes to show you what money and bad influences can do to people.
somnus00 Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 On 5/2/2020 at 8:42 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: A lot of people died around him. Sometimes that motivates people. Other times, you go the opposite way. I’m going to call BS in the Watt stuff. You were really calling for the Bills to draft a guy with 11.5 sacks in 3 years in college? Really??? Over the guy who was the D player of game in a national championship? Really??? Yes, I was calling for him. It's not just about stats. Watching him play in college, you could see he was a monster. His game speed for a guy that big was just unreal. I did not want Dareus. Again, just from watching him play. He dominated at times, but didn't seem to care at others. I've been wrong plenty of times with regards to college players. I have no problem admitting that. I wasn't sold on Russell Wilson. Huge screw up there. 1
somnus00 Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 8 hours ago, CheshireCT said: Dareus was a day one starter and incredible talent who played at a high level even as "lazy" as he was. He dealt with a massive train of tragedies in a short period of time and he just couldn't cope with it. Whaley and the Bills staff at the time knew what he was dealing with and they were doing their best to help him and encourage him. It was a solid draft choice that didn't go as planned for anyone. I give my best wishes to Marcel, that he can recover and lead a good life whether he plays football again or not. I agree with you that he was troubled. I too hope things get better for him. He suffered terrible losses as well. But I feel that you could see this on the field at Alabama. Just went through the motions at times. Physical abilities were not the problem. I know this is just a game we're talking about. He had more important things going on. But respectfully, I don't think his career was solid for the #3 overall pick. You need a superstar at that pick. I appreciate your comments by the way. Our opinions aren't that far apart, I feel. 1
Buffalo716 Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, somnus00 said: Yes, I was calling for him. It's not just about stats. Watching him play in college, you could see he was a monster. His game speed for a guy that big was just unreal. I did not want Dareus. Again, just from watching him play. He dominated at times, but didn't seem to care at others. I've been wrong plenty of times with regards to college players. I have no problem admitting that. I wasn't sold on Russell Wilson. Huge screw up there. Dareus had unreal speed and quickness fir a man that size It was basically getting hit by silverback gorilla. An animal. Marcell was a beast when he wanted to play football 2
Buffalo03 Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 On 5/1/2020 at 4:48 PM, IronMaidenBills said: And to think we could have had AJ Green or Julio Jones... wtf Or JJ Watt or Patrick Peterson. Any one of those four would have been better. That first round in 2011 was loaded
Matt_In_NH Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Buffalo03 said: Or JJ Watt or Patrick Peterson. Any one of those four would have been better. That first round in 2011 was loaded It was. But at the same time it’s not like dareus at the time of his selection was a poor choice. Many considered him the best player in the draft. The issue with him is motivation not skill. It is their job to evaluate a guys motivation and try to predict his behavior but it is always partly luck. 1
Turbo44 Posted May 3, 2020 Posted May 3, 2020 Some guys get paid and don’t have the internal character to work at their craft. Dareus ended his career with Buffalo as 2nd all time in sacks per game (behind some guy named Bruce smith). He also racked up a ton of tackles. He could have been an all-time great, he now is unsigned. He wasn’t willing to work 2
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 3 hours ago, somnus00 said: I agree with you that he was troubled. I too hope things get better for him. He suffered terrible losses as well. But I feel that you could see this on the field at Alabama. Just went through the motions at times. Physical abilities were not the problem. I know this is just a game we're talking about. He had more important things going on. But respectfully, I don't think his career was solid for the #3 overall pick. You need a superstar at that pick. I appreciate your comments by the way. Our opinions aren't that far apart, I feel. Good post. I definitely think his personal losses caught up with him. He was a different dude when he came to Buffalo than when he left. He had no one to hold him accountable in his family. He was like a goofy dude but by the end, he was trying to buy a strip club in Buffalo (got shut down by the Bills). Just a different person. same is he had a start similar to Warren Sapp. He could have been a monster. He just turned 30 too. 2
Rico Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 I've said it before & I'll say it again, I think MD was a great pick at #3 who unfortunately went to the wrong team at the wrong time. It happens. 3
billsfan89 Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 On 5/2/2020 at 12:53 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: I think you are missing the point. No one is arguing about trading Dareus. The argument is when they traded him and acting like it was some genius move. When they traded Dareus, they were 4-2. They finished 5-6 after the trade. Genius! It clearly sent an inspiring message in the lockerroom! It saved zero money when if happened; the Jags went from a terrible run defense to almost making the SB; and our run defense was awful after the trade. If they keep Dareus for the season, he might help win a few more games and possibly the playoff game. He also may have been traded for better value in the offseason. long term, they cleared cap room. But short term, no, it wasn’t a good move. You can still be a Bills fans and not pretend every move they make is genius. That's the proper criticism of the trade was why not do it in the 2018 off-season? The rush defense collapsed the rest of the season. As much as Dareus fell off as a interior disruptor he was still an elite level rush defender and it could have cost the team the 2017 playoffs by trading him a bit too early. BUT I understand that if someone is becoming such a huge problem in the locker room that it is looking like it will be toxic then maybe it was just too much of a risk to keep him around. 1
Ethan in Cleveland Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 Go back and check the tape, almost everyone on this board wanted the Bills to sign Dareus to an extension. Beane signed a guy that quit at halftime and gave millions to an injured PED cheat. None of them are perfect judges of character 2
billsfan89 Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Rico said: I've said it before & I'll say it again, I think MD was a great pick at #3 who unfortunately went to the wrong team at the wrong time. It happens. It is hard to say that AJ Green or Julio Jones wouldn't have been better picks at #3 but at the time Dareus was considered as sure fire high ceiling low floor type prospect as you could get at a position where the Bills needed a lot of help at. 2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Go back and check the tape, almost everyone on this board wanted the Bills to sign Dareus to an extension. Beane signed a guy that quit at halftime and gave millions to an injured PED cheat. None of them are perfect judges of character Almost Everyone wanted the Bills to take him or Von Miller whomever was there at pick 3 and sign him to an extension. I am not sure if Mario being on the team and Rex showing up right when he got the extension made things worse? It was just such a drastic fall off form 2015-2017 from 2013-2014. In 2014 Dareus followed a Pro-Bowl caliber 2013 season by being one of the top 2-3 DT's in the league behind Suh and McCoy. He was 25 why wouldn't you want to keep that guy? 1
Rico Posted May 4, 2020 Posted May 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: It is hard to say that AJ Green or Julio Jones wouldn't have been better picks at #3 but at the time Dareus was considered as sure fire high ceiling low floor type prospect as you could get at a position where the Bills needed a lot of help at. Yeah, neither of them needed all the proper nurturing/developing and veteran support group that MD needed & that this trainwreck of an organization at the time just couldn't provide. By the time McBeane came along and started cleaning up the mess, it was too late, he was already damaged goods. Damn shame.
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