What AJ Espensa peers say about facing him...

[C.Biscuit97]

I really like AJ but with all due respect, these puff pieces don’t really do much for me.  Of course, a high draft pick was to play against.  He is a strong dude.  But he won’t be that strong in nfl and his lack of explosiveness will keep him from becoming an elite sack guy (I hope I’m wrong).

 

but he will be at worst a very solid starter for a long time.  And anything that means less Murphy makes me happy.  

[yungmack]

First three picks - I'm including Diggs because they used the pick to get him - are home runs. Outta the park.

[Iverwig]

The more I see on this kid the more he is growing on me.  I really think the Bills got a steal and a future all pro defensive player.

[Alphadawg7]

55 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I really like AJ but with all due respect, these puff pieces don’t really do much for me.  Of course, a high draft pick was to play against.  He is a strong dude.  But he won’t be that strong in nfl and his lack of explosiveness will keep him from becoming an elite sack guy (I hope I’m wrong).

 

but he will be at worst a very solid starter for a long time.  And anything that means less Murphy makes me happy.  

 

I am not worried about his strength, and not sure why you say he is a strong dude but wont be in the NFL.  I mean the guys talking about his elite strength are all now in the NFL.  Its not like once you get to the NFL people become 10 times stronger.  If he was that strong against NFL level players, including first round picks, then he will be plenty strong in the NFL too.  I think the bigger question mark will be can he develop enough moves and be athletic enough to be a consistent disruptor to go along with his strength.  If he has to rely only on his strength, he can be neutralized much easier. 

 

I really do think he is going to be a good to great starter for the Bills personally.  But thats just an opinion, so we will see what he can do on the field soon enough.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[whatdrought]

I just expect him to blow up and be a force. Maybe not a double digit guy, but someone who forces teams to double and look at extra hard in game planning. He and Ed are such a great young combo. If Harry comes back healthy, next year we can snag a more pure speed guy and our DL will be set for years!

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

I just expect him to blow up and be a force. Maybe not a double digit guy, but someone who forces teams to double and look at extra hard in game planning. He and Ed are such a great young combo. If Harry comes back healthy, next year we can snag a more pure speed guy and our DL will be set for years!

 

Well until FA breaks them up HA.  If all 3 of those guys and another speed guy all become studs, we wont be able to afford to keep all 4 ha

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I am not worried about his strength, and not sure why you say he is a strong dude but wont be in the NFL.  I mean the guys talking about his elite strength are all now in the NFL.  Its not like once you get to the NFL people become 10 times stronger.  If he was that strong against NFL level players, including first round picks, then he will be plenty strong in the NFL too.  I think the bigger question mark will be can he develop enough moves and be athletic enough to be a consistent disruptor to go along with his strength.  If he has to rely only on his strength, he can be neutralized much easier. 

 

I really do think he is going to be a good to great starter for the Bills personally.  But thats just an opinion, so we will see what he can do on the field soon enough.

I meant that he will  it be so much physically more dominant in the nfl like he was in college.

 

and trust me, I’m very happy with the pick.  I though our biggest needs were pass rusher and big receiver.  I do worry that the lack of explosiveness will hold him back a bit.  He was talked about as a #1 overall pick before the season (which shows how stupid those are).  But imo, he is a very safe pick.  At worst, I think he is a 5-7 sack guy who is good against the run.  At best, he could possibly get to double digits.  But he will fit very nice on our defense.

6 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I just expect him to blow up and be a force. Maybe not a double digit guy, but someone who forces teams to double and look at extra hard in game planning. He and Ed are such a great young combo. If Harry comes back healthy, next year we can snag a more pure speed guy and our DL will be set for years!

Agreed.  That really good speed rusher is the only thing they are missing.  

[Big Turk]

15 hours ago, Logic said:

I just watched all the AJ Epenesa highlights I could find. 

He reminded me of someone, but it wasn't JJ Watt. I realized it was another #94, Justin Smith. Smith was a 5T, but truthfully, one could argue that that's Epenesa's best position, anyway. Besides, McDermott's defense often has his DEs aligned at 5T anyway.

But that's AJ...a classic strong, tall, powerful 5T, base end that can kick inside on passing downs.

Justin Smith made 5 Pro Bowls and was a two time 1st team All Pro and two time 2nd team All Pro .... all without ever having 10 sacks in a single season.

If bending the edge and tallying sacks is the measure, he may never be elite. But in terms of defending the run, taking on double teams, collapsing the pocket, controlling the edge, and pitching in 6-10 sacks a season...I think he's going to be dominant.

 

 

Every team would be much better with a player like that on it regardless of what the "numbers" say. 

[Rockinon]

Speed rushers are over rated. What gets you to a QB faster? Running all the way around the tackle or running through the tackle? There are different ways to rush a a passer and a speed rushers isn't necessarily going to get there faster. So we have an undersized DT in Oliver and now an over sized DE in Epenesa. Being good at football isn't all about size. Oliver is good because of his speed. Epenesa is good because of his strength. Both are explosive but for different reasons.

[Poleshifter]

@Alphadawg7 Thank you for breaking this out of the huge AJ thread. This is some great stuff!

 

I love hearing from the OL who faced him. Cool that Runyan Jr is so analytical about it.

 

Great thread!

[Mojo44]

4 hours ago, Rockinon said:

Speed rushers are over rated. What gets you to a QB faster? Running all the way around the tackle or running through the tackle? There are different ways to rush a a passer and a speed rushers isn't necessarily going to get there faster. So we have an undersized DT in Oliver and now an over sized DE in Epenesa. Being good at football isn't all about size. Oliver is good because of his speed. Epenesa is good because of his strength. Both are explosive but for different reasons.

I completely agree. Speed rushers are often one trick ponys and don’t play the run well. Besides, he did have 22 sacks the past 2 years against  Big Ten competition.

 

Another thing. The position is “edge”.  It looks like this guy can really set the edge which is as important as any skill set of the position. It forces plays inside.

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Iverwig said:

The more I see on this kid the more he is growing on me.  I really think the Bills got a steal and a future all pro defensive player.

me too . 

 Go Bills !!

4 hours ago, Rockinon said:

Speed rushers are over rated. What gets you to a QB faster? Running all the way around the tackle or running through the tackle? There are different ways to rush a a passer and a speed rushers isn't necessarily going to get there faster. So we have an undersized DT in Oliver and now an over sized DE in Epenesa. Being good at football isn't all about size. Oliver is good because of his speed. Epenesa is good because of his strength. Both are explosive but for different reasons.

running outside the tackle does not do well to protect to passing / running lanes.. This kid is strong enough to push off his  blocker and move inside or out when the play breaks down. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Poleshifter said:

@Alphadawg7 Thank you for breaking this out of the huge AJ thread. This is some great stuff!

 

I love hearing from the OL who faced him. Cool that Runyan Jr is so analytical about it.

 

Great thread!

 

No problem   

 

I wouldn't normally start a thread about a topic already going, but just felt this was a different take and was buried in that beast of a thread and was worthy of its own dialogue.  Glad you liked it too!

 

Comments from his peers who had to go up against him, especially guys so highly regarded in their own right, are IMO a good source of quality and insightful analysis on him.  Obviously scouts were high on him too as many had him going round 1 and Beane had a first round grade on him too he said.  But as usual, there were quite a few people here upset over this pick, which was quite surprising given the combo of the need and great value at where we got him.  

[Alphadawg7]

9 hours ago, Rockinon said:

Speed rushers are over rated. What gets you to a QB faster? Running all the way around the tackle or running through the tackle? There are different ways to rush a a passer and a speed rushers isn't necessarily going to get there faster. So we have an undersized DT in Oliver and now an over sized DE in Epenesa. Being good at football isn't all about size. Oliver is good because of his speed. Epenesa is good because of his strength. Both are explosive but for different reasons.

 

I agree totally with this...and TBH, speed rushers are more often less complete EDGE players as the are far too often all finesse.  They can struggle with containing the edge in stopping the run or are easily neutralized if they dont get past their blocker.  

 

Im not saying a dominate speed rusher cant be great, but too much emphasis is put on the sack total.  I mean at the end of the day, if a guy gets 14 sacks in a season, thats not even 1 a game.  And almost certainly didnt even likely get one in 14 different games, as they more thank likely had one or more multi-sack games too.  People way over value those 14 total plays on a season.  For me, the question is what he is doing the rest of the snaps and games?  I care more about that than double digit sack totals.  

 

You show me a guy with 8 sacks but also is good tackler and good against the run...and you show me a finesse guy who gets 12-14 sacks but isnt strong in run stopping or tackling...and I would take that 8 sack guy every single time who is a more complete player and will make a bigger and more consistent impact on that defense.  

 

And thats not to say AJE cant get more than 8 sacks...but people are hung up on that number because that moron Booger said it and someone else on draft coverage said he would probably be an 8-10 sack guy.  Especially on this defense, once he starts each week I think he potential is not limited in the kind of impact he could make.  

Edited April 30, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[boater]

On 4/28/2020 at 9:19 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

He wasn't a jerk out there

For some reason, this resonates with me.

[26TrapDraw]

On 4/28/2020 at 6:32 PM, Penfield45 said:

just hope that power translates to the NFL 

 

won't be long until he is a captain on that defense along with White, Edmunds and Oliver. 

I get that college weight programs are good but he will have the best strength coaches in the NFL in Buffalo and he will add even more strength. He's only 22. He already has great technique in his rushes. Put more strength on that frame and he could become elite.

[Freddie's Dead]

Espensa? 

[soflabillsfan1]

I like AJ.  Still feel like he would be better as a 3-4 DE but we'll see.

[Green Lightning]

1 hour ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

I like AJ.  Still feel like he would be better as a 3-4 DE but we'll see.

That's my first thought as well. He's Phil Hansen size (Like was 6'5" 278) and while not the same game, likely will have similar results. Set the edge, great run defender, reliable and about 6 - 7 sacks a year. Phil's on the Wall of Fame, so I hope AJ can have a similar career from a 4-3 front. I think kicking AJ inside on passing downs will be effective. 

[TigerJ]

The interesting thing about Epenesa, is that not only did he have a poor 40 at the combine, he also tied for the worst results in the D-line group in the bench (17 reps).  Yet he's always seen as a power end.  The film, and the comments of his opponents don't lie.  He's obviously a handful for opponents to deal with.  I'm assuming that he understands how he can use his attributes (length and mass) to gain a leverage advantage.  Then it's all about technique - hand fighting, balance etc.   I'm assuming he's pretty polished as far as his technique is concerned, though I'm sure ever rookie has things he can learn.  I think, however, that he probably has a lot of room to grow in terms of strength and explosion.  He's never going to run a 4.5 40, but neither did Kyle Williams.  Williams was explosive because he worked on his first step.  He was explosive in spite of his physical limitations.  I think Epenesa can do some of that too.