Governor Cuomo appoints Buffalo Bills owner Kim Pegula to New York re-opening advisory board

[TroutDog]

9 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Intelligent? Pegula?

Ummmmm...did you read what I wrote?

 

As an aside I’ve found it’s never wise to question the ability and intelligence of an individual (read: couple) who own two major league sports franchises. ? 

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

4th of July Festivals in East Aurora, North Tonawanda and West Seneca all got cancelled within the past day I believe.

 

So it just keeps going deeper into the summer heading towards Fall.

I hear the mother of all WNY Lawn Fetes, Queen of Heaven, is about to be cancelled. 

[Don Otreply]

40 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Should a person who makes millions of dollars packing thousands of people into relatively small spaces really be part of the committee to reopen NYS? By all reports, she’s a great woman, but I think there’s too much conflict of interest here. 

Yes there is a conflict, at the same time the Governor want opinions from all quarters.   Cuomo is a smart guy, and will continue to give priority to the science and medical experts, as he should.  Kim being part of this committee is not going to change the facts on the ground, she is not a decision maker on this topic nor are any of the members of the committee.  The decision will hinge on public safety.   Football is fun to watch and be a fan of, but it’s only a form of idle entertainment, keeping our family, friends and neighbors out of the hospital is the actual priority. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Don Otreply

[Wayne Arnold]

1 minute ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Can you elaborate a little bit? If you are speaking in regards to Covid I think that possibility is absolutely zero. You likely get a vaccine next year. At that point no one cares about this anymore. Say the vaccine fails, antibody tests have already revealed 15-20% of the population is likely infected. That makes your death rate .00005. So once that first vaccine fails, again, no one really cares anymore. In relative life terms, this won’t last very long. It just seems that way while living through it. 

 

So the vaccine that could...maybe...possibly...hopefully exist sometime in the latter half 2021 could fail and "no one will really care anymore"? That's what we're banking on to end this nightmare? That people just stop caring about it?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, boater said:

Advisory Board. I hope she kicks some butt. I truly believe a 2020 season is at risk. We need rational people advising the Governor.

 

I think Kim Pegula is probably a sharp lady, but isn't the point of an advisory board to absorb the best understanding of the epidemic and what drives it, then help the Governor figure out how different aspects of life can be re-opened safely, not to "kick some butt"?

 

If the primary consideration is the risk of the 2020 season rather than what can be done without plunging us back towards Hospital Overload, then she's the wrong person for the job.

[TroutDog]

49 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Should a person who makes millions of dollars packing thousands of people into relatively small spaces really be part of the committee to reopen NYS? By all reports, she’s a great woman, but I think there’s too much conflict of interest here. 

Right: get rid of someone because they’re successful? 
 

She was invited to be one voice. That’s it.

 

In my opinion, there are much more conflicts of interest in government to worry about than this. Trashing experts because they aren’t ‘on your side’ enough is radically more grotesque than this. Expertise matters. 
 

Now if she recommends filling the stadium instead of being half filled in opposition to scientists/medical doctors? Completely different story. 
 

I completely respect your question, just sharing my opinion.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

36 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Can you elaborate a little bit? If you are speaking in regards to Covid I think that possibility is absolutely zero. You likely get a vaccine next year. At that point no one cares about this anymore. Say the vaccine fails, antibody tests have already revealed 15-20% of the population is likely infected. That makes your death rate .00005. So once that first vaccine fails, again, no one really cares anymore. In relative life terms, this won’t last very long. It just seems that way while living through it. 

 

Where are these antibody test results that have revealed that published?  Source please?

 

What I've seen, is a small study in NYS that indicated that NYC may have 21% infection rate.  Outside of NYC/LI region, 3.6% were positive.  So while overall, the state had an average of 14% positive, it's sort of a "statistically, the duck is dead" result, right, where the average isn't terrifically meaningful?  If you live in NYC, Good for You; if you live Upstate, better not count on that 14% immunity.
 

There's a Santa Clara study that concluded 2.5%-4.2% were infected (the actual rate of positives was 1.5%, and their correction methods are subject to criticism)

There's an LA study of 800 people that concluded 2.8-5.6% were infected (they extrapolated to 8 million people, big jump) - average of 4% positive
There's a Miami study I haven't had a chance to dig into yet that the newspaper reporting says 6%.

 

I'm not aware of any study showing 15-20% of the population is infected, so kindly share your source and I will break out the tea and cookies to entertain it.  But Herd immunity requires 50-60% immunity for an R0 of 2-3, so even 15-20% is a long way short.

Oh, and there's a study (linked in the Covid-19 facts thread) saying that very few of these antibody tests are accurate - they have many, many more false positives than the test developers claim.

 

ON that death rate thing:  I've said it before, I'll say it again: we don't know the death rate and can't calculate it yet (as well as untested cases, there are also uncounted excess deaths).  What we DO know is in 4 different countries, in cities where this disease spread unchecked before lockdown, it completely overwhelmed the health care system.  It did this in Wuhan.  It did this in Italy.  It did this in Spain.  And it did this in NYC until lockdown, then it only totally overwhelmed the pre-existing capacity.

 

Whether the death rate is ultimately 5%, or 0.5%, or 0.05%, it's the high morbity (number of people sick enough to require hospital care) and the duration of care they require that make covid-19 problematic.

My best hope is that one or more of the clinical trials of therapeutics will yield a reasonably effective treatment to keep the health care system functional, able to treat and discharge patients. 

An actual detailed, effective plan to protect the health of vulnerable people would also be great, but I just hear empty words so far.

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

55 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Should a person who makes millions of dollars packing thousands of people into relatively small spaces really be part of the committee to reopen NYS? By all reports, she’s a great woman, but I think there’s too much conflict of interest here. 

Who should be on it then ; a park ranger in the Catskills ?  She’s a powerful business woman, and we need to reopen businesses. The great thing is, none of those thousands of people in the small spaces is forced to be there. They’re paying for the privilege.

[Wayne Arnold]

14 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

Ummmmm...did you read what I wrote?

 

As an aside I’ve found it’s never wise to question the ability and intelligence of an individual (read: couple) who own two major league sports franchises. ? 

 

Yes. Was there a hidden message there?

 

Just because someone is rich doesn't mean they're intelligent at everything...or anything aside from the one thing that allowed him to be rich.

 

Pegula is intelligent at creatively destroying the environment in effective ways and lobbying politicians to allow him to do so while "earning" more money than any single human should be allowed to have. That doesn't mean he makes intelligent sports team decisions or intelligently runs a hospitality business or is automatically capable of making intelligent decisions with regard to a health crisis. 

 

And I'm still trying to figure out where/when Kim has demonstrated an intelligence.

[PetermansRedemption]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

So the vaccine that could...maybe...possibly...hopefully exist sometime in the latter half 2021 could fail and "no one will really care anymore"? That's what we're banking on to end this nightmare? That people just stop caring about it?

The could maybe possibly is putting words in my mouth. It is very likely to exist in the spring-fall. Just can’t say with 100% certainty because nothing is ever certain. To your second point, I haven’t cared all along. Other than the imposing restrictions that the government is putting in place.  I have the upmost faith in my body to fight off a virus with a true mortality rate far lower than that reported. Once antibody tests are available to every American you will likely see 36-72 million infected. Do the math on that with 50,000 deaths and you see the true mortality rate. Disclaimer: The facts presented in this post are not backed up by anything and are a figment if what I believe may someday come true. 

49 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Where are these antibody test results that have revealed that published?  Source please?

 

What I've seen, is a small study in NYS that indicated that NYC may have 21% infection rate.  Outside of NYC/LI region, 3.6% were positive.  So while overall, the state had an average of 14% positive, it's sort of a "statistically, the duck is dead" result, right, where the average isn't terrifically meaningful?  If you live in NYC, Good for You; if you live Upstate, better not count on that 14% immunity.
 

There's a Santa Clara study that concluded 2.5%-4.2% were infected (the actual rate of positives was 1.5%, and their correction methods are subject to criticism)

There's an LA study of 800 people that concluded 2.8-5.6% were infected (they extrapolated to 8 million people, which is a big jump) - average of 4%

 

I'm not aware of any study showing 15-20% of the population is infected, so kindly share your source and I will break out the tea and cookies to entertain it.  But Herd immunity requires 50-60% immunity for an R0 of 2-3, so even 15-20% is a long way short.

 

ON that death rate thing:  I've said it before, I'll say it again: we don't know the death rate and can't calculate it yet (as well as untested cases, there are also uncounted excess deaths).  What we DO know is in 4 different countries, in cities where this disease spread unchecked before lockdown, it completely overwhelmed the health care system.  It did this in Wuhan.  It did this in Italy.  It did this in Spain.  And it did this in NYC until lockdown, then it only totally overwhelmed the pre-existing capacity.

 

Whether the death rate is ultimately 5%, or 0.5%, or 0.05%, it's the high morbity (number of people sick enough to require hospital care) and the duration of care they require that make covid-19 problematic.

My best hope is that one or more of the clinical trials of therapeutics will yield a reasonably effective treatment to keep the health care system functional, able to treat and discharge patients. 

An actual detailed, effective plan to protect the health of vulnerable people would also be great, but I just hear empty words so far.

 

 

 

Yeah... I have no source 

Edited April 29, 2020 by PetermansRedemption

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, PetermansRedemption said:

The could maybe possibly is putting words in my mouth. It is very likely to exist in the spring-fall. Just can’t say with 100% certainty because nothing is ever certain. To your second point, I haven’t cared all along. Other than the imposing restrictions that the government is putting in place.  I have the upmost faith in my body to fight off a virus with a true mortality rate far lower than that reported. Once antibody tests are available to every American you will likely see 36-72 million infected. Do the math on that with 50,000 deaths and you see the true mortality rate. 

 

That's great, bud; what about the people you encounter who may have less studly immune systems, or the people they encounter?

 

Maybe...it's Not Just About You.
 

And I think you should source that 36-72 million infected claim.

[PetermansRedemption]

46 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's great, bud; what about the people you encounter who may have less studly immune systems, or the people they encounter?

 

Maybe...it's Not Just About You.
 

And I think you should source that 36-72 million infected claim.

The at risk population is more than welcome to continue to lock down. I’ll make sure not to visit any of them while I might be a carrier.  And I have no source. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by PetermansRedemption

[RiotAct]

50 minutes ago, zonabb said:

More proof that money buys you access to power and policy, even absent any actual qualifications. From Olean waitress who intended to move to Alaska to join the fishing industry to unqualified president of two sports franchises (one she's running into the ground) to a role, which is thankfully largely symbolic, in addressing critical issues arising from a global health crisis. 

 

Total. Joke. 

 

I had a friend so disgusted with the Pegulas and esp her, he gave up his Bills seasons. Said he can't support these greedy, phony, leeches. Good for him.

ouch.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

The at risk population is more than welcome to continue to lock down. I’ll make sure not to visit any of them while I might be a carrier.  

 

How do you think these "at risk" people will survive?  Are you willing to subsidize their rent and groceries while they're "welcome to lock down"?  

 

If they require assistive care, who will care for them?  Will it be someone who can avoid contact with someone like you?

 

Will you make sure not to visit or interact in any way with someone who has necessary contact with an at-risk person?  You won't take public transportation, including taxis and Ubers?  You won't shop for groceries or at pharmacies?  You won't go to physicians offices?   How about the fact that the recent study of hospitalized patients in NYC identified co-morbidities that afflict 42 and 46% of the US adult population?

 

Flip, flip, flip and Glib.   At risk people are a lot more prevalent than you appear to believe and the problem of protecting them has more complexity.

 

Oh by the way, still waiting for your source about the claim that 15-20% of Americans infected......asdfasdfasdfasdfasdf

 

15 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

You have passive aggressiveness down to an art ?

 

I seem to have provided some facts, including links to actual results of actual antibody studies, none of which back up your claim.

You threw around some unsourced claims, and when asked to provide sources and back it up, you substitute insults. 

Either back up your claim about 15-20% with a source, or stand down and admit you can't.  This isn't difficult.

 

[PetermansRedemption]

37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How do you think these "at risk" people will survive?  Are you willing to subsidize their rent and groceries while they're "welcome to lock down"?  

 

If they require assistive care, who will care for them?  Will it be someone who can avoid contact with someone like you?

 

Will you make sure not to visit or interact in any way with someone who has necessary contact with an at-risk person?  You won't take public transportation, including taxis and Ubers?  You won't shop for groceries or at pharmacies?  You won't go to physicians offices?   How about the fact that the recent study of hospitalized patients in NYC identified co-morbidities that afflict 42 and 46% of the US adult population?

 

Flip, flip, flip and Glib.   At risk people are a lot more prevalent than you appear to believe and the problem of protecting them has more complexity.

 

Oh by the way, still waiting for your source about the claim that 15-20% of Americans infected......asdfasdfasdfasdfasdf

At risk people are more prevalent. Because we are a country of obesity and the pre-existing conditions that’s go along with it. We are a nation that eats fats and doesn’t exercise. We also have a third rate healthcare system with first rate funding. You want to see a problem completely of its own doing? Welcome to reality.

37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How do you think these "at risk" people will survive?  Are you willing to subsidize their rent and groceries while they're "welcome to lock down"?  

 

If they require assistive care, who will care for them?  Will it be someone who can avoid contact with someone like you?

 

Will you make sure not to visit or interact in any way with someone who has necessary contact with an at-risk person?  You won't take public transportation, including taxis and Ubers?  You won't shop for groceries or at pharmacies?  You won't go to physicians offices?   How about the fact that the recent study of hospitalized patients in NYC identified co-morbidities that afflict 42 and 46% of the US adult population?

 

Flip, flip, flip and Glib.   At risk people are a lot more prevalent than you appear to believe and the problem of protecting them has more complexity.

 

Oh by the way, still waiting for your source about the claim that 15-20% of Americans infected......asdfasdfasdfasdfasdf

 

 

I seem to have provided some facts, including links to actual results of actual antibody studies, none of which back up your claim.

You threw around some unsourced claims, and when asked to provide sources and back it up, you substitute insults. 

Either back up your claim about 15-20% with a source, or stand down and admit you can't.  This isn't difficult.

 

I have no source and live by the “half of all statistics are made up” mantra. I just usually happen to fall into that half. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by PetermansRedemption

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, PetermansRedemption said:

At risk people are more prevalent. Because we are a country of obesity and the pre-existing conditions that’s go along with it. We are a nation that eats fats and doesn’t exercise. We also have a third rate healthcare system with first rate funding. You want to see a problem completely of its own doing? Welcome to reality.

 

True statements, but beside the point that it's not viable for 42-46% of the country to isolate themselves.  Nor can the very vulnerable - the aged or immunocompromised - isolate themselves without assistance.  So how are you ensuring you are avoiding these folks?  It's more of a problem than your glib "I won't visit them".

 

You're also not responding to the request to source your claim that 15-20% of Americans are already infected.  This isn't rocket science, either we should all downgrade anything you say going forward as "likely to be made up"  or you can provide a source. 

[TroutDog]

24 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Yes. Was there a hidden message there?

 

Just because someone is rich doesn't mean they're intelligent at everything...or anything aside from the one thing that allowed him to be rich.

 

Pegula is intelligent at creatively destroying the environment in effective ways and lobbying politicians to allow him to do so while "earning" more money than any single human should be allowed to have. That doesn't mean he makes intelligent sports team decisions or intelligently runs a hospitality business or is automatically capable of making intelligent decisions with regard to a health crisis. 

 

And I'm still trying to figure out where/when Kim has demonstrated an intelligence.

Nope, I’d venture to say that I agree with you completely. 
 

My only contention is that we do not discard people for being successful or being experts in a certain field. I suspect if you and I sat down we’d feel the same about most things. 
 

My belief may differ in that looking to business owners to come up with novel ways to open things up should not be overlooked. 
 

Look, I have a blood cancer and it came out today that I have a 10% higher chance of kicking the bucket from this than the rest of the lot here. Should the NFL not move forward because of that? Nope, not in my opinion. It requires me making good decisions based on my circumstances. I want sports back (particularly football!!!!!). 
 

Yes, I am completely aware that there were people willing to injest/inject bleach. I am only commenting as me...not the masses (remove the ‘m’ if that’s helpful ?). 

Edited April 29, 2020 by TroutDog

[PetermansRedemption]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

True statements, but beside the point that it's not viable for 42-46% of the country to isolate themselves.  Nor can the very vulnerable - the aged or immunocompromised - isolate themselves without assistance.  So how are you ensuring you are avoiding these folks?  It's more of a problem than your glib "I won't visit them".

 

You're also not responding to the request to source your claim that 15-20% of Americans are already infected.  This isn't rocket science, either we should all downgrade anything you say going forward as "likely to be made up"  or you can provide a source. 

I have no source. I am a not a rocket scientist, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by PetermansRedemption

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Conflict of interest....but I like it

 

[PetermansRedemption]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

True statements, but beside the point that it's not viable for 42-46% of the country to isolate themselves.  Nor can the very vulnerable - the aged or immunocompromised - isolate themselves without assistance.  So how are you ensuring you are avoiding these folks?  It's more of a problem than your glib "I won't visit them".

 

You're also not responding to the request to source your claim that 15-20% of Americans are already infected.  This isn't rocket science, either we should all downgrade anything you say going forward as "likely to be made up"  or you can provide a source. 

 

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

True statements, but beside the point that it's not viable for 42-46% of the country to isolate themselves.  Nor can the very vulnerable - the aged or immunocompromised - isolate themselves without assistance.  So how are you ensuring you are avoiding these folks?  It's more of a problem than your glib "I won't visit them".

 

You're also not responding to the request to source your claim that 15-20% of Americans are already infected.  This isn't rocket science, either we should all downgrade anything you say going forward as "likely to be made up"  or you can provide a source. 

I do have a serious question for you though. Since you seem well informed of the subject at hand. There is something that I can’t piece together. The USS Roosevelt. 5,000 or so sailors on board with absolutely no chance of social distancing. Your eating with hundreds, passing hundreds daily, sleeping with hundreds, showering. You get the picture. How did they only have 800 confirmed cases, for a 16% infection rate. I haven’t been able to make heads or tails of that. 
 

Annnddd so you see it’s not made up 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3018331001