Rodgers in GB ( old article)

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

While I agree receiver was a need (and it was strange that they chose not to address it) they did actually replace Bulaga with Rick Wagner in free agency who had a down year last year with the Lions but before that both in Detroit and Baltimore had been one of the better right tackles in the NFL and is a year younger and cost half the price. I actually thought that was a good move. If Wagner plays at anything like his true level it is barely even a downgrade and a significant saving. 

 

I think the overall point on receiver is just that LeFleur is changing who Green Bay are. When you hire Matt LeFleur you have to know that. He isn't Kliff Kingsbury or Matt Nagy. He isn't coming in with 5 wides and spread it out that is not who he is. He is much more Kyle Shanahan. He is going to feed tight ends (seriously the tight they took in the 3rd round out of Cincinnati - excellent player - most people had it as a reach but by my board was not much of one, they took him late 3rd I had a high 4 on him) and he is going to pound the run game with a variety of backs who can attack the edge and the cutback lanes and get downhill.  

 

San Fran made the Superbowl with Emmanuel Sanders (a career #2 receiver) and Deebo Samuel (a rookie #2 receiver type). Davante Adams is better than both and yes Funchess and Lazard are not the most exciting complimentary options... I get that. But LeFleur clearly just doesn't think his system needs two studs outside.  At one point Rodgers had Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb and Davante Adams on the same roster and didn't make a Superbowl because when ahead in an NFCCG they were totally incapable of running the ball to eat clock. 

 

Essentially what I am trying to say is:

 

(1) I do think the clock is ticking on Rodgers and before we shed any tears for him remember he campaigned for the firing of Mike McCarthy;

 

(2) I thought the writing was on the wall as soon as they hired LeFleur and said as much. It was a wean yourself of Rodgers (who had been hurt a lot in the 3 previous seasons and whose game was already showing signs of decline) move;

 

(3) While I am surprised they didn't draft a receiver somewhere it is an offensive scheme in which backs and tight ends have equal value to wideouts;

 

(4) If the Packers had a first round grade on Jordan Love they were absolutely right to take him. First round graded Quarterbacks are not a dime a dozen. If your guy is 36 and you get a chance to draft one then you should darn well do it; 

 

(5) If Aaron Rodgers ends up - as seems very possible - with only one Superbowl then one of the main reasons for that will be Aaron Rodgers. He is a great Quarterback but he has never been a great leader. 

I try to take my personal feelings about Rodgers out of this because he's my least favorite QB in the NFL.  The Packers committed to him when they signed him to that long term deal that they won't be able to get out of until after the 2022 season and STILL take a 17 million dollar dead cap hit.  They shouldn't have hired LaFleur if the plan wasn't to make every move possible to win within that four year window.

 

To reiterate, they traded up to draft a developmental quarterback, a rotational running back who isn't a pass catching RB, and a back up blocking tight end with their first three picks. Their big receiver addition was Devin Funchess who caught five passes last year and they didn't draft a single WR in one of the deepest drafts ever at the position.  They needed some serious help with the middle of their d-line as they were exposed by SF and they didn't address it at all in free agency or the draft.

 

By the time they're ready to move on from Rodgers making the big assumption that Jordan Love will work out, Love will be ready to sign his second contract.  So.....the Packers miss out on their opportunity to take advantage of a QB on his rookie contract like KC did and didn't do everything they could to win now with an all time great nearing the end of his career.  I'm sorry.  I still don't get the strategy.

 

[Matt_In_NH]

I bet Jordan Love goes the way of Garoppolo. 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I try to take my personal feelings about Rodgers out of this because he's my least favorite QB in the NFL.  The Packers committed to him when they signed him to that long term deal that they won't be able to get out of until after the 2022 season and STILL take a 17 million dollar dead cap hit.  They shouldn't have hired LaFleur if the plan wasn't to make every move possible to win within that four year window.

 

To reiterate, they traded up to draft a developmental quarterback, a rotational running back who isn't a pass catching RB, and a back up blocking tight end with their first three picks. Their big receiver addition was Devin Funchess who caught five passes last year and they didn't draft a single WR in one of the deepest drafts ever at the position.  They needed some serious help with the middle of their d-line as they were exposed by SF and they didn't address it at all in free agency or the draft.

 

By the time they're ready to move on from Rodgers making the big assumption that Jordan Love will work out, Love will be ready to sign his second contract.  So.....the Packers miss out on their opportunity to take advantage of a QB on his rookie contract like KC did and didn't do everything they could to win now with an all time great nearing the end of his career.  I'm sorry.  I still don't get the strategy.

 

 

I said at the time they hired LeFleur that I thought it was a strange hire because he is an offensive system over an offensive talent guy. Rodgers has always been somewhat of a freelancer and McCarthy gave him the scope to do that. I don't think the Packers are not "trying to win now" but I think they are taking a Denver in late Elway era approach that the way to win with Aaron Rodgers as he is now is with him throwing less, running game and defense.

 

Doesn't mean I think their entire offseason is exactly what I'd have done - though on Funchess - he is far from my favourite player but he got IR'd after week 1 last season so slightly disingenuous to try and use his 2019 stats to knock him. He is a low end #2 / high end #3 type though and I agree a pretty uninspiring choice all around. Equally I am pretty high on Josiah Deguara - he is more than just a blocker. As I said in my "draft sleepers" post where I flagged him up right at the start of April, he isn't gonna be confused with Zach Ertz, he isn't an athletic freak who essentially plays as a receiver - but he is a solid pass catcher and has a good understanding of route running. I think he has the potential to be a really good NFL player.

 

I think the reason the overall strategy looks a bit "messy" is because it is. They had a regime change a year after Rodgers signed that massive extension. So the way that Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy might have seen the team rebuild at the point that deal was struck is not necessarily the way the current brain trust sees it.

 

Fundamentally though I still think if you have a QB age 36 and a chance to draft a guy you have a first round grade on you do it. Even if Love doesn't work out long term, it is the right strategy (and I do actually like Love's chances as a guy to sit, learn and take over in two years time). That is why Bill Belichick wanted to move off Brady and onto Jimmy G three years ago. Because he knew he had someone capable of playing at a top 15 NFL QB level in the system and finding those guys is not easy. Maybe he has another in the system in Stidham now (though I still find that a bit hard to believe) but if he doesn't then Robert Kraft might be left to reflect on whether the one additional Superbowl he won with Brady (in 2018) was worth the likely years of irrelevance as they struggle to find a Quarterback. Maybe he will conclude it was... and that is certainly fair enough... but in the Packers case I remain sceptical as to whether spending that pick on Tee Higgins, or on Michael Pittman, or on Ross Blacklock, or on Marlon Davidson, was really the difference between winning another Superbowl with Rodgers or not.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I said at the time they hired LeFleur that I thought it was a strange hire because he is an offensive system over an offensive talent guy. Rodgers has always been somewhat of a freelancer and McCarthy gave him the scope to do that. I don't think the Packers are not "trying to win now" but I think they are taking a Denver in late Elway era approach that the way to win with Aaron Rodgers as he is now is with him throwing less, running game and defense.

 

Doesn't mean I think their entire offseason is exactly what I'd have done - though on Funchess - he is far from my favourite player but he got IR'd after week 1 last season so slightly disingenuous to try and use his 2019 stats to knock him. He is a low end #2 / high end #3 type though and I agree a pretty uninspiring choice all around. Equally I am pretty high on Josiah Deguara - he is more than just a blocker. As I said in my "draft sleepers" post where I flagged him up right at the start of April, he isn't gonna be confused with Zach Ertz, he isn't an athletic freak who essentially plays as a receiver - but he is a solid pass catcher and has a good understanding of route running. I think he has the potential to be a really good NFL player.

 

I think the reason the overall strategy looks a bit "messy" is because it is. They had a regime change a year after Rodgers signed that massive extension. So the way that Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy might have seen the team rebuild at the point that deal was struck is not necessarily the way the current brain trust sees it.

 

Fundamentally though I still think if you have a QB age 36 and a chance to draft a guy you have a first round grade on you do it. Even if Love doesn't work out long term, it is the right strategy (and I do actually like Love's chances as a guy to sit, learn and take over in two years time). That is why Bill Belichick wanted to move off Brady and onto Jimmy G three years ago. Because he knew he had someone capable of playing at a top 15 NFL QB level in the system and finding those guys is not easy. Maybe he has another in the system in Stidham now (though I still find that a bit hard to believe) but if he doesn't then Robert Kraft might be left to reflect on whether the one additional Superbowl he won with Brady (in 2018) was worth the likely years of irrelevance as they struggle to find a Quarterback. Maybe he will conclude it was... and that is certainly fair enough... but in the Packers case I remain sceptical as to whether spending that pick on Tee Higgins, or on Michael Pittman, or on Ross Blacklock, or on Marlon Davidson, was really the difference between winning another Superbowl with Rodgers or not.

 

Agree 100% - I especially think the part about LaFleur is spot on.  Many thought it was a strange hire because his fit with Rodgers is not ideal.  If GB as an organization has a long term view - then the GM and HC are safe to make this pick.  
 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

apologies if already posted. 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bob-mcginn-suggests-matt-lafleur-190558401.html

 

Bob McGinn covered the Packers for 38 years. Which makes his opinions regarding the team worth considering.

 

So consider this paragraph from McGinn’s review of Green Bay’s much-maligned 2020 draft for TheAthletic.com, which started with the Packers trading up from No. 30 to No. 26 to draft Utah State quarterback Jordan Love: “Public niceties aside, my sense is [coach Matt] LaFleur, fresh from a terrific 13-3 baptismal season, simply had enough of [Aaron] Rodgers’ act and wanted to change the narrative. With a first-round talent on the roster, the Packers would gain leverage with their imperial quarterback and his passive-aggressive style. If the Packers do indeed want to become a running team next season, they surely wouldn’t want Rodgers rocking the boat and becoming even more difficult to coach.”

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, NewEra said:

No, they weren’t 1 player away from winning a super bowl.  You act as if the pick they used on a backup QB in 2020 is the only draft pick they had.  Like the packers couldn’t sign any free agents.  That pick just turns out to be their best asset.  
 

This last year they were one game short of the SB. How far can the team be?  Much closer than several other teams that are making a run and trying to win now.  
 

No more time wasted here.  I think they should go all in to win while they can with AR.   I’d be doing everything I can to give him what he needs to win.   
 

They didn’t.  They probably won’t win another SB with AR.  I’m over it.  

 

This is discussion  about the Love pick.  I won't disagree that they could have made other moves as well.

 

That Packers team was the worst 13-3 team in a while.  With the same roster this year, they won't win 12. 

 

They have trying to get back to the SB for 10 years.  LAst year was a fluke---and their absolute last shot, Tee Higgins or no Tee Higgins.

12 hours ago, Doc said:

Nope. Been saying that the earliest he can be gone is after that season because of the cap hit. 

 

So if he's not gone by the end of '21, how would Love already be a franchise QB by the end of '22?

11 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

That part I get, the part I don't is giving a Aaron Rodgers team who was a win away from the Superbowl no weapons. I guess you can say AJ Dillon but he doesn't catch out of the backfield so he is more. first-second down guy. Also not even calling and telling him their plans? That's cold, just my opinions.

 

 

Did they call Favre before they drafted his (eventual) replacement in the first round after they fell short of a playoff win?

[RodgersBills]

If Allen is not up to snuff this year which we know he isn't we need to go after Rodgers 

[Mr. K]

R-E-L-A-X. He probably isnt going anywhere but if he is willing to cut out his own family he would probably leave the packers if he really was that upset.

 

[CLTbills]

23 hours ago, ALLEN-2-DIGGS-TD!! said:

The curse of Danica lives on. Stenhouse looks alot better post Danica maybe Rogers should dump her.

Only time she ever went to victory lane was when Ricky won at Talladega and she had crashed out....

[Mr. WEO]

16 minutes ago, RodgersBills said:

If Allen is not up to snuff this year which we know he isn't we need to go after Rodgers 

 

Here's a grand entry...

[Doc]

3 hours ago, mattynh said:

I bet Jordan Love goes the way of Garoppolo. 

 

Meaning he's traded and they keep ARod?  Or that he looks like a franchise guy but the jury is still out?

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

So if he's not gone by the end of '21, how would Love already be a franchise QB by the end of '22?

 

I think we can all agree that not only drafting Love in the 1st but trading up for him is a message to ARod that his days are numbered.  The earliest they can get out of his contract is after the end of the '21 season (but it will still incur a $17M cap hit although they'll save ~$8M on the cap).  Meaning they start Love for the '22 season.  Basically exactly the way they did it with him/Favre. If he doesn't prove to be a franchise QB, or at least on his way to being one, by then, they made a big mistake.

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Doc

[4BillsintheBurgh]

32 minutes ago, Mr. K said:

R-E-L-A-X. He probably isnt going anywhere but if he is willing to cut out his own family he would probably leave the packers if he really was that upset.

 

Or "get hurt" and end up not playing at all. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

I don't see how as a coach that you can't tailor your offensive plan to take advantage of one of the most talented guys in the league, and that in and of itself is going to be a problem for LaFleur. Even if you're a run heavy team, why wouldn't you go get a burner, his effectiveness as a deep threat is multiplied because you know AR can get the ball out to him. Really seems egotistical on LaFleur's part to me. As far as Rodgers forcing McCarthy out, Mike himself admitted that he didn't continue to innovate and his offense got stale so that really isn't a valid criticism, probably more like AR feeling like McCarthy was not going to help him get to the Super Bowl. I have to think AR was trying to get changes to the offense and there was nothing happening for him so he forced the issue.

 

Really it comes down to winning, which they pretty well did last year. But there is tape out there now and the "new coach bump" may not sustain them into this year. Taking a future QB might be good for the team overall but you actually fall behind the other teams in your division because they're picking guys that are probably playing this year. And yes, given the razor thin difference in talent among the top teams, one player can matter, especially a first rounder.

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Meaning he's traded and they keep ARod?  Or that he looks like a franchise guy but the jury is still out?

 

 

I think we can all agree that not only drafting Love in the 1st but trading up for him is a message to ARod that his days are numbered.  The earliest they can get out of his contract is after the end of the '21 season (but it will still incur a $17M cap hit although they'll save ~$8M on the cap).  Meaning they start Love for the '22 season.  Basically exactly the way they did it with him/Favre. If he doesn't prove to be a franchise QB, or at least on his way to being one, by then, they made a big mistake.

 

 

Did a 15 year vet with diminishing output (who was drafted under the exact same circumstances) really need this pick to understand that "his days are numbered"?

 

Why is it that Aaron Rodgers is the only long term franchise QB who has to be tiptoed around by the team that must look forward to their future at QB?  This is how you are supposed to do it.  Love was a top QB prospect (better than the consensus seemed to be on Rodgers) that fell to the back of the 1st round--where they will likely be picking until Rodgers is gone, and likely won't find his replacement at that pick 2 years from now.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Did a 15 year vet with diminishing output (who was drafted under the exact same circumstances) really need this pick to understand that "his days are numbered"?

 

Why is it that Aaron Rodgers is the only long term franchise QB who has to be tiptoed around by the team that must look forward to their future at QB?  This is how you are supposed to do it.  Love was a top QB prospect (better than the consensus seemed to be on Rodgers) that fell to the back of the 1st round--where they will likely be picking until Rodgers is gone, and likely won't find his replacement at that pick 2 years from now.

It's not how the Pats* did it and it's not how the Steelers are doing it. Seems like you just like to take a position and practice arguing. I used to own a bar and I had a regular just like to argue about how good the other team was and get everyone riled up. I asked him one time why he did it and he said he just loved getting the rise out of folks. Your name Joe? 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Did a 15 year vet with diminishing output (who was drafted under the exact same circumstances) really need this pick to understand that "his days are numbered"?

 

Why is it that Aaron Rodgers is the only long term franchise QB who has to be tiptoed around by the team that must look forward to their future at QB?  This is how you are supposed to do it.  Love was a top QB prospect (better than the consensus seemed to be on Rodgers) that fell to the back of the 1st round--where they will likely be picking until Rodgers is gone, and likely won't find his replacement at that pick 2 years from now.

 

You think any star player thinks his days are numbered?  Much less a guy with ARod's ego?  Much much less a guy who is 36 at a position that can play into his 40's and who is coming off a Pro Bowl season?  LOL!   Good one.

 

And I couldn't care less what GB does.  What they did worked with him and Favre.  That doesn't mean it will in this case but, again, it's not my concern.  I, just like most everyone (even you), was surprised to see the Pack not only draft a QB in the 1st, but trade up for him when I figured they'd be using that pick to shore up the offense or defense and get past the 49'ers.  Time will tell if they made the right move. 

[fresh716]

We should do anything possible to get Rodgers. Our window is now with this roster besides our QB. Can't let Allen continue to blow this for us.

[ndirish1978]

They have NEVER given him a 1st rd skills position player. Love was a ridiculous pick. 

[C.Biscuit97]

26 minutes ago, fresh716 said:

We should do anything possible to get Rodgers. Our window is now with this roster besides our QB. Can't let Allen continue to blow this for us.

That’s a super strong take haha but with our roster, we would be serious SB contenders with Rodgers.  No way this happens though.  
 

And this is so interesting.  I think it is a great move to get a talented young qb to learn under one of the all time greats.  He will have 2 years to get the best kind of development.  That said, this is also a team that a game away from the SB.  I think I heard that the Packers have never spent a 1st round pick on an offensive player since Rodgers has been the qb.  That’s insane.  Their receivers are garbage minus Adams.  This is like the Chiefs with Mahomes except Rodgers on his worst day is better than Smith on his best.  They should have drafted an offensive player and then tried to trade up for Love.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

That’s a super strong take haha but with our roster, we would be serious SB contenders with Rodgers.  No way this happens though.

 

Super ignorant too, for numerous reasons.  The Pack can't trade ARod for another 2 years because of the cap hit.

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

They have NEVER given him a 1st rd skills position player. Love was a ridiculous pick. 

Yeah, they just got him Jordy Nelson, who was a star, Davante Adams, who is a star, and Randall Cobb, who was a star, all in the second round.  #WillSomeoneHelpRodgers?