HappyDays Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Neither was enough to credit with being "responsible" for the AFCC game appearance. You watched the Colts game, yes? We won by 3 points. Bass made 2 difficult field goals (which I assure you Hauschka couldnt make) and Davis made 2 incredible catches on a critical TD drive (which I assure you Brown couldn't catch). Remove any one of those 4 plays and it's likely a loss or overtime at best. This is playoff football. Games turn on a couple of plays. 10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: The topic is who the Packers would have picked in the first instead of Love, not downdraft picks they could have made regardless of who they picked in the first round. So your claim that, if it comes down to losing by one score, then that means it's "definitely possible" the Packers should have selected some-other-1st-round-pick-you-may-be-thinking-of instead of Love....yeah, that's ridiculous. I don't even know what you're arguing here. Are you saying a 1st round player would have meant exactly nothing to the Packers this year? If you agree that rookies can contribute and you agree that 1st round rookies are the most likely to contribute, then you must agree that a 1st round rookie would have had a good chance of contributing to their success this year. Which of those statements do you disagree with?
Mr. WEO Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, NewEra said: They errored if they don’t win a super bowl. I’ve stated that. it’s not about a 1st rd non Qb making the team significantly better. That player (actually 2 players. They traded a 1st and a 4th rd pick to move up). could contribute to them winning games this year...like Gabe Davis and Tyler Bass helped us beat the colts. Without them, our season could be over right now. Davis’ amazing catches let directly to points. Bass made clutch kicks, while the colts kicker missed. If we win the SB, one could say that we wouldn’t have won without Gabe Davis making those catches vs the colts. Our season could’ve been over that game if not for his catches. Jordan Love contributed zero. My point has always been about the their FO mindset of building for the future instead of trying to win when the iron is hot. They made the NCCCG.....the iron was hot, yet they drafted their GOATs replacement instead of drafting players that could potentially help them win another SB. My point has always been that AR having only 1 SB is a result of the FO failing him and the team. Their philosophy has never wavered, I give them credit for sticking to what they do, but I also believe that they would have more championships if they veered from what is their norm from time to time. Championships > everything Every packers fan I know....7 to be exact, agreed with me 💯. They saw an opportunity to win another SB in 2021. I did too. You were sure that they had no chance to make it back to the NCFCG. Thousands, probably more along the lines of millions of people agreed with me. To your first point in quotes: it’s not just about 1st round non QBs rookies making an impact on a championship caliber team. It’s about rookies in general. They gave up a 1 and a 4th. To be specific: Do the Rams win the SB without Torrey Holts? 7-109-1. Do they even make it to the SB without him? Do the pats win the SB without Sony Michel, who had a record 6 TDs in 3 games. 94 yards and the games only Td. Do the redskins win the super bowl without Timmy smith? 204-2 Do the Ravens win the super Bowl without a Jamal Lewis? 102-1. Do the eagles win the super bowl without Corey Clement? 4-100-1 Yes, Rookies can have a direct impact on a team winning a super bowl. As to the first bolded: yes, in fact that is literally what this discussion is about. No one is saying that the Packers didn't help themselves with later picks. It is only about what they did with their first pick compared to what they could have done with the pick. You keep changing the subject. As to the second bolded. Is there a team "hotter" that the Packers in the NFCC (and the NFL, except the Bills) right now? The Packers actually are better this year than last.
HappyDays Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: There is no more important use of a first round pick than a guy you think can be a franchise Quarterback. But they already have their franchise QB... their Super Bowl window is now and they made a pick that possibly helps them with a Super Bowl window 5 years from now. I'm all for teams building for the future but you have to know when it's time to put all your chips in. Rodgers doesn't look anywhere close to retirement. I get that the age wall can hit at any time but it's unpredictable when that will happen. They should be maximizing their chances now. I for one am glad they picked Love because if we face them in the Super Bowl that's one less solid player we have to worry about on the field. 1
NewEra Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Good picks, but no. Bass is a solid replacement for Hauschka. Davis a solid replacement for Brown (who they need to test the market with at this point). Neither was enough to credit with being "responsible" for the AFCC game appearance. The topic is who the Packers would have picked in the first instead of Love, not downdraft picks they could have made regardless of who they picked in the first round. So your claim that, if it comes down to losing by one score, then that means it's "definitely possible" the Packers should have selected some-other-1st-round-pick-you-may-be-thinking-of instead of Love....yeah, that's ridiculous. Gave Davis’ catches are the reason we scored on the final drive of the first half. We won by 3. You use the word “responsible” as if one player, other than a QB, can be the sole reason that a team wins a game. Without his great catches. There’s a good chance we lose that game, wether you choose to accept that fact is on you just trying to defend you point 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: As to the first bolded: yes, in fact that is literally what this discussion is about. No one is saying that the Packers didn't help themselves with later picks. It is only about what they did with their first pick compared to what they could have done with the pick. You keep changing the subject. As to the second bolded. Is there a team "hotter" that the Packers in the NFCC (and the NFL, except the Bills) right now? The Packers actually are better this year than last. lol. You just ignore all the facts that prove your statement incorrect. Typical you. You were wrong. have a nice day
Mr. WEO Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: You watched the Colts game, yes? We won by 3 points. Bass made 2 difficult field goals (which I assure you Hauschka couldnt make) and Davis made 2 incredible catches on a critical TD drive (which I assure you Brown couldn't catch). Remove any one of those 4 plays and it's likely a loss or overtime at best. This is playoff football. Games turn on a couple of plays. I don't even know what you're arguing here. Are you saying a 1st round player would have meant exactly nothing to the Packers this year? If you agree that rookies can contribute and you agree that 1st round rookies are the most likely to contribute, then you must agree that a 1st round rookie would have had a good chance of contributing to their success this year. Which of those statements do you disagree with? It's a full season that got them to this game. Bass made some kicks (Hauschka was 9/10 from 40-49 the year before they cut him), but Colts kicker missed a chip shot (his first of 13 in that range all season) and Rivers missed a wide open TD pass. I'm saying that picking Love in the first, in and of itself, has had no obvious negative impact on the Packers success this year (compare to last year). The facts bear this out. "Contributing" doesn't mean the team is measurably better. The Bills top pick Epenesa had little if any impact on their season. He contributed, but not much. Is that more clear? 7 minutes ago, HappyDays said: But they already have their franchise QB... their Super Bowl window is now and they made a pick that possibly helps them with a Super Bowl window 5 years from now. I'm all for teams building for the future but you have to know when it's time to put all your chips in. Rodgers doesn't look anywhere close to retirement. I get that the age wall can hit at any time but it's unpredictable when that will happen. They should be maximizing their chances now. I for one am glad they picked Love because if we face them in the Super Bowl that's one less solid player we have to worry about on the field. So it's better to wait until your HOF QB says "i'M done" to look for your next franchise QB? How did that work out for the Bills? Was their method better than the ones the Packers have employed? 7 minutes ago, NewEra said: Gave Davis’ catches are the reason we scored on the final drive of the first half. We won by 3. You use the word “responsible” as if one player, other than a QB, can be the sole reason that a team wins a game. Without his great catches. There’s a good chance we lose that game, wether you choose to accept that fact is on you just trying to defend you point lol. You just ignore all the facts that prove your statement incorrect. Typical you. You were wrong. have a nice day lol adios
GunnerBill Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: But they already have their franchise QB... their Super Bowl window is now and they made a pick that possibly helps them with a Super Bowl window 5 years from now. I'm all for teams building for the future but you have to know when it's time to put all your chips in. Rodgers doesn't look anywhere close to retirement. I get that the age wall can hit at any time but it's unpredictable when that will happen. They should be maximizing their chances now. I for one am glad they picked Love because if we face them in the Super Bowl that's one less solid player we have to worry about on the field. I am sorry I just disagree. There are lots of ways to add impact players. There are many fewer ways to find potential franchise Quarterbacks.
HappyDays Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It's a full season that got them to this game. Bass made some kicks (Hauschka was 9/10 from 40-49 the year before they cut him), but Colts kicker missed a chip shot (his first of 13 in that range all season) and Rivers missed a wide open TD pass. Okay I get the sense that you're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. If you don't agree that Bass and Davis were instrumental to our victory last week I don't know what to tell you. Every single player on the team counts in tight playoff games, even rookies. The Packers have to win 3 games to win the Super Bowl and you're trying to argue another decent player on the field wouldn't make any difference at all. 23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: I'm saying that picking Love in the first, in and of itself, has had no obvious negative impact on the Packers success this year (compare to last year). Love isn't actively hurting them, correct. He also isn't actively helping them. Another player would have is the point. 24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: So it's better to wait until your HOF QB says "i'M done" to look for your next franchise QB? It's better to maximize your Super Bowl chances in your window. Maybe they could have used that pick to trade for DeAndre Hopkins and steamroll teams all the way to the Lombardi. It's not like Jordan Love was their last chance to ever draft a QB again. But any season over the next 3 years might be their last chance to win a Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers. The chances of Love ever giving them that same opportunity are minimal. 16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I am sorry I just disagree. There are lots of ways to add impact players. There are many fewer ways to find potential franchise Quarterbacks. I think you're stretching this rationale too far. By the same logic maybe the Bills should have drafted a QB last year. After all Allen didn't prove he was a franchise QB in 2019. So my philosophy is as long as you are pretty sure you have your franchise QB for the next 2 years, drafting a QB high should not be a priority. There is a minuscule chance Love will ever be as good as Rodgers. Bills fans should know franchise QBs don't come easy. You should do everything you can to win a Super Bowl when you have the chance.
GunnerBill Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I think you're stretching this rationale too far. By the same logic maybe the Bills should have drafted a QB last year. After all Allen didn't prove he was a franchise QB in 2019. So my philosophy is as long as you are pretty sure you have your franchise QB for the next 2 years, drafting a QB high should not be a priority. There is a minuscule chance Love will ever be as good as Rodgers. Bills fans should know franchise QBs don't come easy. You should do everything you can to win a Super Bowl when you have the chance. I just think your philosophy under values Quarterback. You have to have a Quarterback in this league. Everything else and I mean everything else is secondary. Aaron Rodgers was 36. There is no guarantee that when he is 38 a QB you like gets to you. I will always and forever defend any team drafting a Quarterback in the first round. It is a Quarterback league. If you think one pick stops you surrounding Rodgers with the pieces then we are never going to agree. Quarterback. Quarterback. Quarterback. And if a team like Green Bay didn't believe that before this year then the New England Patriots are the cautionary tale. They could still have drafted him a receiver, or signed a better free agent than Devin Funchess or signed a defensive tackle if that is what @Doc would have done. There are plenty of ways of going all in with Aaron Rodgers without prostituting the future of the franchise. Love was the right decision if, as they clearly do, they believe he is a potential franchise Quarterback. Regardless of anything else.
GunnerBill Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 40 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: So it's better to wait until your HOF QB says "i'M done" to look for your next franchise QB? How did that work out for the Bills? Was their method better than the ones the Packers have employed? How is it working out for New England? Look at the situation in New Orleans.... how does that look now..... considering they talked themselves out of a trade up (and remember they had far less distance to go than the Chiefs) for one Patrick Mahomes because "QB wasn't our biggest need." To me the moment your Quarterback is 35 it is your biggest need. I suspect Atlanta are going to pass on one at #4 this year too because "Well Matt Ryan can still play and the defense is really bad and we still have Ridley and Julio and we can make a run..." I get that Atlanta and Ryan are not Green Bay and Rodgers. But The reason Green Bay are Green Bay and Rodgers is Rodgers because the last time they were faced with this decision they got the strategy right.
Mr. WEO Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: Okay I get the sense that you're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. If you don't agree that Bass and Davis were instrumental to our victory last week I don't know what to tell you. Every single player on the team counts in tight playoff games, even rookies. The Packers have to win 3 games to win the Super Bowl and you're trying to argue another decent player on the field wouldn't make any difference at all. Love isn't actively hurting them, correct. He also isn't actively helping them. Another player would have is the point. It's better to maximize your Super Bowl chances in your window. Maybe they could have used that pick to trade for DeAndre Hopkins and steamroll teams all the way to the Lombardi. It's not like Jordan Love was their last chance to ever draft a QB again. But any season over the next 3 years might be their last chance to win a Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers. The chances of Love ever giving them that same opportunity are minimal. I think you're stretching this rationale too far. By the same logic maybe the Bills should have drafted a QB last year. After all Allen didn't prove he was a franchise QB in 2019. So my philosophy is as long as you are pretty sure you have your franchise QB for the next 2 years, drafting a QB high should not be a priority. There is a minuscule chance Love will ever be as good as Rodgers. Bills fans should know franchise QBs don't come easy. You should do everything you can to win a Super Bowl when you have the chance. It's not the "same logic", at all. Rodgers is in his 16th season, not his 3rd. And Love doesn't have to ever be "as good as Rodgers"--if that's the bar, then the Packers should never draft a QB again. What did the Eagles, SB winners 3 years ago do to give their franchise QB more weapons this year? They drafted his replacement. What did BB for Brady in the draft over 20 years? Gronk. But, yeah, maybe you're right. Packers should have drafted "that other guy" who could have made them the #1 Offense in the NFL and led them to the NFCC game. oh, wait... 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: How is it working out for New England? Look at the situation in New Orleans.... how does that look now..... considering they talked themselves out of a trade up (and remember they had far less distance to go than the Chiefs) for one Patrick Mahomes because "QB wasn't our biggest need." To me the moment your Quarterback is 35 it is your biggest need. I suspect Atlanta are going to pass on one at #4 this year too because "Well Matt Ryan can still play and the defense is really bad and we still have Ridley and Julio and we can make a run..." I get that Atlanta and Ryan are not Green Bay and Rodgers. But The reason Green Bay are Green Bay and Rodgers is Rodgers because the last time they were faced with this decision they got the strategy right. Exactly. The overwhelming irony is that this very team is as successful as it is right now because they did this exact same thing 16 years ago. It is clear that the Packers FO was far more confident in their roster going into the draft. Everything that we have all seen all season (and nothing in all these really poor arguments to the contrary) simply proves they were correct.
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