GunnerBill Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 9 minutes ago, Doc said: In 2005, the Packers weren't a game away from the SB. They had just lost badly to the hated division-rival Vikings in a wildcard game at home. And Favre had taken a beating over his career, having played mostly during the era where they didn't protect QB's and didn't last as long as they do now. Errr.... who has missed more games injured? Brett or Aaron?
spartacus Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 3 hours ago, NewEra said: The discussion isn’t just about the Love pick. I was discussing Rodgers’ future in GB....you know, the title of the thread? i was talking about how Gb was one win away from making the SB and with a good offseason, adding the proper prices, they could be a super bowl team. a good offseason includes multiple draft picks and free agents. Not one pick. The bolded: you’re talking about make believe. Things that you have no idea about but talking like you KNOW what will happen. You absolutely do not. the one thing that we DO know. Jordan Love sitting on the sideline will not help the 2020 packers win a super bowl. not sure why I even quoted you. Same ****, different day. you making up stuff as if it’s a science you speak of. why is it pre-ordained that GB will replicate the success from last year they hit lightning in a bottle look at Jax for a comparable so close to a Superbowl they believed and re-signed Bortles have not come close to winning again, let alone the Superbowl The mgmt team has a plan "process" which Rodgers does not seem to buy into
FireChans Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, Doc said: From what I gather, ARod has a roster bonus of $6.8M due on the 3rd league year in 2021, which is somewhere in March. If they wait until June 1st to cut/trade him, sure they can spread out the $31.556M dead cap/bonus hit, but that's another $6.8M on their books for 2021, pushing it to $14.3M. And since his salary in 2021 in $14.7M, they're saving around $500K, not $22M. He could very well force their hand to trade/release him. Depends on how he wants to play it. His cap hit in 2021 is $36M. His dead cap if traded post 6/1 is $14.3M. Thus, $22M in savings. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/aaron-rodgers-3745/
Mr. WEO Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 24 minutes ago, Doc said: So they were so thoroughly out-classed by the 49'ers that they...decided to give up and draft a project QB who won't help them for at least 2 years? LOL! If that's the case, they should have traded whoever they could and start all over with that brilliant logic. Mock drafts are worthless for predicting anything after the 1st round, never mind the 5th round. The point in mentioning this was to say that no one was calling for the Packers to draft a QB in the 1st round, which is entirely different from taking a backup QB in the 5th round. Yeah they can't trade him for 2 years because of the cap hit, as I've repeatedly said. The question is whether ARod plays good soldier or not over the next 2 seasons. NE got bounced by the Broncos in 2013 . Did they draft a WR to beef up the receiver room of Edelman, Amandola, Dobson and Tompkins? No, they drafted their future QB. "Project QB"? He was scouted far better than Rodgers. And for the record, they "traded up" 30 to 26 and it cost them a 4th to get the guy who was variously mocked to Miami, Baltimore and LAC far upstream. But I get it, you and others think the Packers are very close to the SB right now. We will see pretty soon if that is true. I'm comfortable saying they won't win 13 games this season. You feel they should be as successful as they were last season. We shall see.
Gugny Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29113844/brett-favre-says-thinks-aaron-rodgers-finish-career-packers Favre fanning the flames!!! I love it!!!! Favre said he's talked with Rodgers since the Packers traded up four spots to pick Love at No. 26 on Thursday. "I'm not going to talk about all that we talked about, but he was ... let's just say surprised that they went in that direction," Favre said. "I'm not surprised that he reached out to Jordan, being in a similar situation himself 15 years ago," Favre said. "And we had a great relationship in spite of -- I wouldn't say it took a turn for the worst when I left, but he was basically caught up in the middle of a hornet's nest, if you will. I don't foresee that happening here. I think Aaron will do whatever. It's not his job to mentor Jordan Love. "This discussion went on when I left Green Bay. It's not the head guy's job to mentor the next guy. That guy's ultimately there to take your spot. Now, if Jordan were to ask, 'Can I watch extra film with you?' I would be shocked if Aaron said no. I think he would go over and beyond to help, but he's not going to go out of his way, and I can't blame him."
Mr. WEO Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 14 minutes ago, Doc said: In 2005, the Packers weren't a game away from the SB. They had just lost badly to the hated division-rival Vikings in a wildcard game at home. And Favre had taken a beating over his career, having played mostly during the era where they didn't protect QB's and didn't last as long as they do now. LOL Favre was the all time iron man in the NFL. 297 starts is a record that will never be broken. 321 total starts won't either. This has to be the silliest comment on this you've made yet....and that's an accomplishment! 4 minutes ago, Gugny said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29113844/brett-favre-says-thinks-aaron-rodgers-finish-career-packers Favre fanning the flames!!! I love it!!!! Favre said he's talked with Rodgers since the Packers traded up four spots to pick Love at No. 26 on Thursday. "I'm not going to talk about all that we talked about, but he was ... let's just say surprised that they went in that direction," Favre said. "I'm not surprised that he reached out to Jordan, being in a similar situation himself 15 years ago," Favre said. "And we had a great relationship in spite of -- I wouldn't say it took a turn for the worst when I left, but he was basically caught up in the middle of a hornet's nest, if you will. I don't foresee that happening here. I think Aaron will do whatever. It's not his job to mentor Jordan Love. "This discussion went on when I left Green Bay. It's not the head guy's job to mentor the next guy. That guy's ultimately there to take your spot. Now, if Jordan were to ask, 'Can I watch extra film with you?' I would be shocked if Aaron said no. I think he would go over and beyond to help, but he's not going to go out of his way, and I can't blame him." This will come as a surprise to a lot of posters here who still believe in this sort of thing for some reason.
Mr. WEO Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 29 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He had 4,000 yards, 26 tds, 4 ints with Lazard as his second leading receiver in a “bad year.” What qb besides maybe Mahomes is going better with that group? There is talk that the Jimmy G stuff lead to a a divide between Brady and Belichick. Brady made a career out of it. And no doubt Brady looked sideways at the Jimmy pick....but, so what? They had to draft the next guy at some point.
Gugny Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: This will come as a surprise to a lot of posters here who still believe in this sort of thing for some reason. It's shocking how Curtis Painter ended up so damn good! 1
TwistofFate Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, BarleyNY said: Nope, no way. That’s because the dead cap for trading him after this season would be $31.6M. Two more seasons would make it $17.2M. And then under $3M after three more. So unless Rodgers forces a trade they don’t have to be in a hurry to do anything. Rodgers sat for 3 seasons while Favre was the starter and I expect Love to do the same. At minimum it’ll be two, but probably three. I don’t even know that Love will work out at all as a starter in the NFL, but if he does it won’t be replacing Aaron freaking Rodgers next season unless things have really gone off the rails up there in Green Bay. Scenario 2: Trading/Cutting Rodgers in early 2021 Things get a little more interesting next season. Rodgers counts for $36.35 million on the salary cap while playing on a $22 million salary. Rodgers also has a $6.8 million roster bonus that is due by the third day of free agency so any move would need to be made before that. It basically gives them an official two day window to execute a trade. This is still not a cheap option. Both moves would cost the team $31.556 million in cap dollars though that would free up around $4.8 million in cap space. If they wait until after the roster bonus is paid however the dead money jumps by $6.8M meaning he will remain on the team. If the NFL is seriously impacted by the Covid-19 outbreak there may be some logic in freeing up cap room and bailing on a high salary for the year, though you would think QB would be the last position teams look at for that. Provided teams do not get into a cost protection mode next year Rodgers would definitely have big trade value because his salary average is currently at $24.3M for the three years. This is likely the optimum trade year for the Packers but the cost is high so they would need to be blown away by an offer. https://overthecap.com/the-packers-options-with-aaron-rodgers/ Rodgers is not Lafleur's guy. He doesn't fit his system, and there is no reason to MOVE UP in the draft to grab a QB in the first if you plan on keeping Rodgers around for the next 3 years. Rodgers's hanging on the bench for years back in the day doesnt happen in today's NFL. 1st round picks are off the bench within a year. No first round pick is sitting the bench for 3 years in today's NFL, let alone a guy you traded up for. Edited April 29, 2020 by TwistofFate 1
NewEra Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 1 hour ago, spartacus said: why is it pre-ordained that GB will replicate the success from last year they hit lightning in a bottle look at Jax for a comparable so close to a Superbowl they believed and re-signed Bortles have not come close to winning again, let alone the Superbowl The mgmt team has a plan "process" which Rodgers does not seem to buy into Why is a given that they hit lightning in a bottle? Look for Jacksonville? They had Blake Bortles. The packers have one of the greatest qbs of all time. this my last post in this thread. Some here prefer to give up on the next couple years with aaron Rodgers as their QB and build for the future. That’s fine. I’d prefer to do my best to win another super bowl with aaron Rodgers as my QB. It’s my belief that aaron Rodgers now >>> jordan Love at his best ever. If the coach/gm don’t like Rodgers and want to move on, so be it. They got gifted one of the best QBs ever. And they chose Jordan Love. Eager to see how long it takes them to win a SB
Doc Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 50 minutes ago, FireChans said: His cap hit in 2021 is $36M. His dead cap if traded post 6/1 is $14.3M. Thus, $22M in savings. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/aaron-rodgers-3745/ I think I see the discrepancy. They're figuring he's traded prior to the 3rd day of the league year, somewhere in March, and given a post-June 1st designation. Will they be able to do that is the question? 49 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: NE got bounced by the Broncos in 2013 . Did they draft a WR to beef up the receiver room of Edelman, Amandola, Dobson and Tompkins? No, they drafted their future QB. "Project QB"? He was scouted far better than Rodgers. And for the record, they "traded up" 30 to 26 and it cost them a 4th to get the guy who was variously mocked to Miami, Baltimore and LAC far upstream. But I get it, you and others think the Packers are very close to the SB right now. We will see pretty soon if that is true. I'm comfortable saying they won't win 13 games this season. You feel they should be as successful as they were last season. We shall see. 44 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: LOL Favre was the all time iron man in the NFL. 297 starts is a record that will never be broken. 321 total starts won't either. This has to be the silliest comment on this you've made yet....and that's an accomplishment! Yeah, the Packers are the Cheaters. OK. Never mind that Brady was the same age as ARod back then, coming off a similar season production-wise, but ARod is done. Great logic, as always. What you fail to realize is that drafting Jimmy G was a waste because Brady wasn't done and they had to trade him away, and are now looking for another QB. And yes, throwing for 20 TDs and 17 INTs in the powerhouse Mountain West Conference isn't the sign of a project QB. Silly? Nothing can top your "Diggs isn't a top-10 receiver because I don't think he'd have gotten x yards in his last game or because 3 guys in 2015..." Never mind the "Singletary is a fumbler...fumbles are over blown."
FireChans Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Doc said: I think I see the discrepancy. They're figuring he's traded prior to the 3rd day of the league year, somewhere in March, and given a post-June 1st designation. Will they be able to do that is the question? Yeah, the Packers are the Cheaters. OK. Never mind that Brady was the same age as ARod back then, coming off a similar season production-wise, but ARod is done. Great logic, as always. What you fail to realize is that drafting Jimmy G was a waste because Brady wasn't done and they had to trade him away, and are now looking for another QB. And yes, throwing for 20 TDs and 17 INTs in the powerhouse Mountain West Conference isn't the sign of a project QB. Silly? Nothing can top your "Diggs isn't a top-10 receiver because I don't think he'd have gotten x yards in his last game or because 3 guys in 2015..." Never mind the "Singletary is a fumbler...fumbles are over blown." I think that bonus is still paid if he is traded post June 1 and it’s included in his cap hit. The “early” designation is for cutting only I believe, and exists solely for teams to be able to spread out cap hits. Edited April 29, 2020 by FireChans
Doc Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 Just now, FireChans said: I think that bonus is still paid if he is traded post June 1 and it’s included in his cap hit. Yes, which is why I said they would need to cut/trade him prior to the 3rd league day but with a post-June 1st designation. If they actually wait until after June 1st, then they have to pay that roster bonus and probably his workout bonus, making his dead cap almost $22M and they lose $7M in cap room.
FireChans Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Doc said: Yes, which is why I said they would need to cut/trade him prior to the 3rd league day but with a post-June 1st designation. If they actually wait until after June 1st, then they have to pay that roster bonus and probably his workout bonus, making his dead cap almost $22M and they lose $7M in cap room. If that was the case, then why does Sporttrac say that cutting him with a post 6/1 designation is the same as trading him? AFAIK, you can’t make “post 6/1” trade designations. If his dead cap is $22M, they are still saving $14M in space by getting rid of him. Because his total hit is $36M in 2021. Edited April 29, 2020 by FireChans
Doc Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 1 minute ago, FireChans said: If that was the case, then why does Sporttrac say that cutting him with a post 6/1 designation is the same as trading him? AFAIK, you can’t make “post 6/1” trade designations. True, there is no post-June 1st trade designation, just cut. Meaning they'd get nothing for losing him and he'd be free to sign anywhere.
Mr. WEO Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, Doc said: I think I see the discrepancy. They're figuring he's traded prior to the 3rd day of the league year, somewhere in March, and given a post-June 1st designation. Will they be able to do that is the question? Yeah, the Packers are the Cheaters. OK. Never mind that Brady was the same age as ARod back then, coming off a similar season production-wise, but ARod is done. Great logic, as always. What you fail to realize is that drafting Jimmy G was a waste because Brady wasn't done and they had to trade him away, and are now looking for another QB. And yes, throwing for 20 TDs and 17 INTs in the powerhouse Mountain West Conference isn't the sign of a project QB. Silly? Nothing can top your "Diggs isn't a top-10 receiver because I don't think he'd have gotten x yards in his last game or because 3 guys in 2015..." Never mind the "Singletary is a fumbler...fumbles are over blown." BB thought Brady was nearing expiration, obviously. And they drafted his replacement. See how it works? Mountain West Project? Didn't stop the Bills from drafting one of those. What a disaster----another great point doc! Singletary is a fumbler--in fact he was the absolute best fumbler in the NFL last year! But to me it's not a huge problem. Even having the highest rate in the Leaguen had no impact on the Offenses struggles, good or bad. As for Diggs, yeah--it's pretty silly to not give a player credit for amassed yards which he hasn't earned. You always leap into every pothole..
FireChans Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Doc said: True, there is no post-June 1st trade designation, just cut. Meaning they'd get nothing for losing him and he'd be free to sign anywhere. I think I’d rather trade Rodgers after 6/1 rather than cut him, even if it accelerates a 2021 hit a little more. But it’s not my money.
Doc Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 Just now, Mr. WEO said: BB thought Brady was nearing expiration, obviously. And they drafted his replacement. See how it works? Mountain West Project? Didn't stop the Bills from drafting one of those. What a disaster----another great point doc! Singletary is a fumbler--in fact he was the absolute best fumbler in the NFL last year! But to me it's not a huge problem. Even having the highest rate in the Leaguen had no impact on the Offenses struggles, good or bad. As for Diggs, yeah--it's pretty silly to not give a player credit for amassed yards which he hasn't earned. You always leap into every pothole.. BB was wrong. He should have drafted his replacement a couple years ago. Are the Packers right or wrong here? We'll see. Allen was a project. Is that a revelation to you? And initially I didn't want him. I like his potential but he still needs to take the next step. Yes fumbling isn't an issue. You shouldn't have bothered to bring it up and make yourself look ridiculous. And I didn't give Diggs credit for yards he didn't earn. That's why I said "per game," because you can't amass yards in games you didn't play, or predict how many yards would have been amassed had he played. Which brought out the laughable "well in 2015..."
hjnick Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 2 hours ago, TwistofFate said: Scenario 2: Trading/Cutting Rodgers in early 2021 Things get a little more interesting next season. Rodgers counts for $36.35 million on the salary cap while playing on a $22 million salary. Rodgers also has a $6.8 million roster bonus that is due by the third day of free agency so any move would need to be made before that. It basically gives them an official two day window to execute a trade. This is still not a cheap option. Both moves would cost the team $31.556 million in cap dollars though that would free up around $4.8 million in cap space. If they wait until after the roster bonus is paid however the dead money jumps by $6.8M meaning he will remain on the team. If the NFL is seriously impacted by the Covid-19 outbreak there may be some logic in freeing up cap room and bailing on a high salary for the year, though you would think QB would be the last position teams look at for that. Provided teams do not get into a cost protection mode next year Rodgers would definitely have big trade value because his salary average is currently at $24.3M for the three years. This is likely the optimum trade year for the Packers but the cost is high so they would need to be blown away by an offer. https://overthecap.com/the-packers-options-with-aaron-rodgers/ Rodgers is not Lafleur's guy. He doesn't fit his system, and there is no reason to MOVE UP in the draft to grab a QB in the first if you plan on keeping Rodgers around for the next 3 years. Rodgers's hanging on the bench for years back in the day doesnt happen in today's NFL. 1st round picks are off the bench within a year. No first round pick is sitting the bench for 3 years in today's NFL, let alone a guy you traded up for. Wasn't Green Bay 12-4 last year? If Rodger's isn't Lafleur's type of QB, what kind of QB is he looking for? thx
Doc Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 18 minutes ago, FireChans said: I think I’d rather trade Rodgers after 6/1 rather than cut him, even if it accelerates a 2021 hit a little more. But it’s not my money. Trying to trade him post-June 1st will be tough. Most teams have their caps tied-up by then and will find it hard to absorb his $14M salary. If they're going to get rid of him after next season, they're going to have to cut him on the 1st or 2nd league day and get nothing, not even a comp pick, for him.
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