GunnerBill Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 46 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: All these guys became stars with Rodgers. They didn’t do squat after leaving GB. What’s more likely - Rodgers got the most out of these wrs, of vice versa? Adams was awful when he became a starter yet Rodgers kept feeding him. I don't think anyone is arguing, at least I am certainly not, that Rodgers isn't one of the best to have played. But so was Favre - I still think if you get a chance to take a QB you have a 1st round grade on when you own QB is 36 then you should do it. I didn't like the coaching mesh with him and LeFleur from day 1 and I don't love the way they have attacked the offseason overall. I am as surprised as anyone they didn't take a receiver somewhere, but I do think Deguara will prove to be a bit of a gem. And taking Jordan Love? I have no issue with that.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think anyone is arguing, at least I am certainly not, that Rodgers isn't one of the best to have played. But so was Favre - I still think if you get a chance to take a QB you have a 1st round grade on when you own QB is 36 then you should do it. I didn't like the coaching mesh with him and LeFleur from day 1 and I don't love the way they have attacked the offseason overall. I am as surprised as anyone they didn't take a receiver somewhere, but I do think Deguara will prove to be a bit of a gem. And taking Jordan Love? I have no issue with that. I never got the LaFleur hire. The Titans weren’t a good offense. I don’t hate the Love pick but I get why Rodgers is upset. Plus with guys playing to 40 now, there is less urgency to get a guy. and normally, I’m for what’s best for the franchise. But Rodgers is their franchise. He got held back by McCarthy and Dom Capers and his toupee. They literally have one nfl starting caliber receiver and did nothing to improve it. i do think Love will be a player in the long run though. But if I was a Pack fan, I would go all in on an all time great qb.
FireChans Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I never got the LaFleur hire. The Titans weren’t a good offense. I don’t hate the Love pick but I get why Rodgers is upset. Plus with guys playing to 40 now, there is less urgency to get a guy. and normally, I’m for what’s best for the franchise. But Rodgers is their franchise. He got held back by McCarthy and Dom Capers and his toupee. They literally have one nfl starting caliber receiver and did nothing to improve it. i do think Love will be a player in the long run though. But if I was a Pack fan, I would go all in on an all time great qb. I think you got that backwards. McCarthy let Rodgers do whatever he wants. He certainly wasn't an incredible coach, but not the worst you can do. Biscuit, what you have to understand is that the Pack have a new GM/HC combo. These guys weren't here in 2014. You are arguing they are giving up on Rodgers too early. You could be right. They have evaluated their roster and made their picks accordingly. I don't think they had a stellar draft myself, but when you saw how they got absolutely dismantled in the postseason, it's hard to argue Tee Higgins is going to make or break them next season, and they took Love to secure a successor. Should they have drafted a receiver in the 4th? Probably. Do I think Gabe Davis on the Packers really makes a difference? No. You can get receivers who contribute at that level day one off the scrap heap.
NewEra Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: This is discussion about the Love pick. I won't disagree that they could have made other moves as well. That Packers team was the worst 13-3 team in a while. With the same roster this year, they won't win 12. They have trying to get back to the SB for 10 years. LAst year was a fluke---and their absolute last shot, Tee Higgins or no Tee Higgins. So if he's not gone by the end of '21, how would Love already be a franchise QB by the end of '22? Did they call Favre before they drafted his (eventual) replacement in the first round after they fell short of a playoff win? The discussion isn’t just about the Love pick. I was discussing Rodgers’ future in GB....you know, the title of the thread? i was talking about how Gb was one win away from making the SB and with a good offseason, adding the proper prices, they could be a super bowl team. a good offseason includes multiple draft picks and free agents. Not one pick. The bolded: you’re talking about make believe. Things that you have no idea about but talking like you KNOW what will happen. You absolutely do not. the one thing that we DO know. Jordan Love sitting on the sideline will not help the 2020 packers win a super bowl. not sure why I even quoted you. Same ****, different day. you making up stuff as if it’s a science you speak of.
papazoid Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) GB is definitely NOT cutting him his contract says he will be there for 3 more seasons....otherwise the dead money would be crazy high.....first potential out is in 2023 might they trade him before that ?....very doubtful. i'm going the other way regarding drafting a backup QB with a first rounder....i applaud GB......everytime rodgers gets hurt....the team takes a chit Edited April 29, 2020 by papazoid
Doc Brown Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I said at the time they hired LeFleur that I thought it was a strange hire because he is an offensive system over an offensive talent guy. Rodgers has always been somewhat of a freelancer and McCarthy gave him the scope to do that. I don't think the Packers are not "trying to win now" but I think they are taking a Denver in late Elway era approach that the way to win with Aaron Rodgers as he is now is with him throwing less, running game and defense. Doesn't mean I think their entire offseason is exactly what I'd have done - though on Funchess - he is far from my favourite player but he got IR'd after week 1 last season so slightly disingenuous to try and use his 2019 stats to knock him. He is a low end #2 / high end #3 type though and I agree a pretty uninspiring choice all around. Equally I am pretty high on Josiah Deguara - he is more than just a blocker. As I said in my "draft sleepers" post where I flagged him up right at the start of April, he isn't gonna be confused with Zach Ertz, he isn't an athletic freak who essentially plays as a receiver - but he is a solid pass catcher and has a good understanding of route running. I think he has the potential to be a really good NFL player. I think the reason the overall strategy looks a bit "messy" is because it is. They had a regime change a year after Rodgers signed that massive extension. So the way that Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy might have seen the team rebuild at the point that deal was struck is not necessarily the way the current brain trust sees it. Fundamentally though I still think if you have a QB age 36 and a chance to draft a guy you have a first round grade on you do it. Even if Love doesn't work out long term, it is the right strategy (and I do actually like Love's chances as a guy to sit, learn and take over in two years time). That is why Bill Belichick wanted to move off Brady and onto Jimmy G three years ago. Because he knew he had someone capable of playing at a top 15 NFL QB level in the system and finding those guys is not easy. Maybe he has another in the system in Stidham now (though I still find that a bit hard to believe) but if he doesn't then Robert Kraft might be left to reflect on whether the one additional Superbowl he won with Brady (in 2018) was worth the likely years of irrelevance as they struggle to find a Quarterback. Maybe he will conclude it was... and that is certainly fair enough... but in the Packers case I remain sceptical as to whether spending that pick on Tee Higgins, or on Michael Pittman, or on Ross Blacklock, or on Marlon Davidson, was really the difference between winning another Superbowl with Rodgers or not. That's the part I was trying to get at. I think this will prove to be the wrong hire. The Pats could move on from Brady with a one million dollar buy out in 2018 whereas the Packers at best can dump Rodgers in three years and still take a 17 million dollar dead cap hit. They just don't have the cap space largely because of Rodgers's contract to upgrade the interior of their d-line or sign a premium WR or TE in free agency. So, you have to build through the draft and not addressing those areas of need was just bizarre. Especially the RB in the 2nd round considering they have Jones and Williams. Funchess had one good year in Carolina and other than that he's been a middling WR. Relying on him and a 3rd round TE who shows promise is quite the gamble.
GunnerBill Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 21 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Especially the RB in the 2nd round considering they have Jones and Williams. Funchess had one good year in Carolina and other than that he's been a middling WR. Relying on him and a 3rd round TE who shows promise is quite the gamble. I agree with all that. Once they had taken Love I'd have gone interior D line in round because Gallimore was still there and I love him (and my board was bare at receiver in round 2 after Hamler went to Denver). Then I had Tyler Johnson and our own Gabe Davis there on the board with third round grades at the point they picked. But we don't know what their board was like. Who knows how they felt about those players. 1
Mr. WEO Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 4 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said: It's not how the Pats* did it and it's not how the Steelers are doing it. Seems like you just like to take a position and practice arguing. I used to own a bar and I had a regular just like to argue about how good the other team was and get everyone riled up. I asked him one time why he did it and he said he just loved getting the rise out of folks. Your name Joe? Say what? NE drafted Jimmy G to take over for Brady (3 NE SB appearances ago). They've given Brady 1 1st round WR in 20 years and that was last year. Steelers drafted Mason Rudolph 2 years ago because their long-time franchise QB is nearing the end of his career. They drafted QBs 2 years in a row---and both of them started last year. My "position" on this is the same as the entire Packers organization. The difference between them and NE and Steelers is that GB picked a much better prospect at replacement. You're "riled up" because you can't understand the logic of the Packers move. But it really isn't that hard. You just make it so. 4 hours ago, Doc said: You think any star player thinks his days are numbered? Much less a guy with ARod's ego? Much much less a guy who is 36 at a position that can play into his 40's and who is coming off a Pro Bowl season? LOL! Good one. And I couldn't care less what GB does. What they did worked with him and Favre. That doesn't mean it will in this case but, again, it's not my concern. I, just like most everyone (even you), was surprised to see the Pack not only draft a QB in the 1st, but trade up for him when I figured they'd be using that pick to shore up the offense or defense and get past the 49'ers. Time will tell if they made the right move. No one here really "cares" what they do---so why point that out? It's a given. It doesn't matter what Rodgers thinks. He knows this business. His clock has been ticking. There was no player that would get that Packers team past a far far better SF team---the people who run the Packers felt that was overwhelming clear after that game. That team has many holes. They over achieved--the window slammed shut as they were brutally exposed by the 49ers. Who can't see that? So given that ,and that no one knows how much longer Rodgers will be effective, it makes sense to get a guy projected top 10 at the back of the 1st. Maybe they are tired of Rodgers and his moping around. Maybe they deal him in 2 years, as you suggested is possible. If so, this was a smart move right now. 3 hours ago, Doc said: Apparent to everyone else? LOL! No one anywhere said it was time to replace him. There are literally ZERO mock drafts projecting a QB to the Packers. And again, he's just 36 and coming off a Pro Bowl season. Which mock had Fromm dropping to the Bills in the 5th----and them drafting him? 2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Their second leading wr was Allen Lazard who had 477 yards and wasn’t drafted! Yeah, I can’t believe anyone would think they might try to upgrade that position! NE's second leading receiver the past 2 years has been their RB White. Why can't Rodgers just make Lazard and Valdez-Scantling and Allison or Jimmy Graham better receivers? 1 hour ago, NewEra said: The discussion isn’t just about the Love pick. I was discussing Rodgers’ future in GB....you know, the title of the thread? It is, in fact. It's why the thread was started. 1
TwistofFate Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 On 4/28/2020 at 8:46 AM, BarleyNY said: Deleted my prior post. Misunderstood his contract details because of that article. He’s got 4 years left on it at very reasonable hits for a QB of his ability. That really makes the Love pick confusing to me. They will trade him next year, start love, and use the draft pick/picks to build around Love. The Rodgers era is near the end. 1
FireChans Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: They will trade him next year, start love, and use the draft pick/picks to build around Love. The Rodgers era is near the end. I think this is right. Next year is his last year in GB. 1 hour ago, papazoid said: GB is definitely NOT cutting him his contract says he will be there for 3 more seasons....otherwise the dead money would be crazy high.....first potential out is in 2023 might they trade him before that ?....very doubtful. i'm going the other way regarding drafting a backup QB with a first rounder....i applaud GB......everytime rodgers gets hurt....the team takes a chit Trading him in 2021 post 6/1 will give them $22M in savings, with a $14M and $17M hit spread out over two seasons. He’s actually quite movable next year. 1
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: This is discussion about the Love pick. I won't disagree that they could have made other moves as well. That Packers team was the worst 13-3 team in a while. With the same roster this year, they won't win 12. They have trying to get back to the SB for 10 years. LAst year was a fluke---and their absolute last shot, Tee Higgins or no Tee Higgins. So if he's not gone by the end of '21, how would Love already be a franchise QB by the end of '22? Did they call Favre before they drafted his (eventual) replacement in the first round after they fell short of a playoff win? I have no clue but I don't really know what it has to do with what you commented on, I would have said back in the day that what they did to Favre was cold but the difference being is Favre would always talk about retirement year after year and Rodgers has stated many times that Tom Brady has set the bar and he feels his time is not up yet.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Say what? NE drafted Jimmy G to take over for Brady (3 NE SB appearances ago). They've given Brady 1 1st round WR in 20 years and that was last year. Steelers drafted Mason Rudolph 2 years ago because their long-time franchise QB is nearing the end of his career. They drafted QBs 2 years in a row---and both of them started last year. My "position" on this is the same as the entire Packers organization. The difference between them and NE and Steelers is that GB picked a much better prospect at replacement. You're "riled up" because you can't understand the logic of the Packers move. But it really isn't that hard. You just make it so. No one here really "cares" what they do---so why point that out? It's a given. It doesn't matter what Rodgers thinks. He knows this business. His clock has been ticking. There was no player that would get that Packers team past a far far better SF team---the people who run the Packers felt that was overwhelming clear after that game. That team has many holes. They over achieved--the window slammed shut as they were brutally exposed by the 49ers. Who can't see that? So given that ,and that no one knows how much longer Rodgers will be effective, it makes sense to get a guy projected top 10 at the back of the 1st. Maybe they are tired of Rodgers and his moping around. Maybe they deal him in 2 years, as you suggested is possible. If so, this was a smart move right now. Which mock had Fromm dropping to the Bills in the 5th----and them drafting him? NE's second leading receiver the past 2 years has been their RB White. Why can't Rodgers just make Lazard and Valdez-Scantling and Allison or Jimmy Graham better receivers? It is, in fact. It's why the thread was started. Sorry Joe, I'm out. Have fun arguing with whoever else wants to. 1
BarleyNY Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: They will trade him next year, start love, and use the draft pick/picks to build around Love. The Rodgers era is near the end. Nope, no way. That’s because the dead cap for trading him after this season would be $31.6M. Two more seasons would make it $17.2M. And then under $3M after three more. So unless Rodgers forces a trade they don’t have to be in a hurry to do anything. Rodgers sat for 3 seasons while Favre was the starter and I expect Love to do the same. At minimum it’ll be two, but probably three. I don’t even know that Love will work out at all as a starter in the NFL, but if he does it won’t be replacing Aaron freaking Rodgers next season unless things have really gone off the rails up there in Green Bay.
Doc Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: No one here really "cares" what they do---so why point that out? It's a given. It doesn't matter what Rodgers thinks. He knows this business. His clock has been ticking. There was no player that would get that Packers team past a far far better SF team---the people who run the Packers felt that was overwhelming clear after that game. That team has many holes. They over achieved--the window slammed shut as they were brutally exposed by the 49ers. Who can't see that? So given that ,and that no one knows how much longer Rodgers will be effective, it makes sense to get a guy projected top 10 at the back of the 1st. Maybe they are tired of Rodgers and his moping around. Maybe they deal him in 2 years, as you suggested is possible. If so, this was a smart move right now. So they were so thoroughly out-classed by the 49'ers that they...decided to give up and draft a project QB who won't help them for at least 2 years? LOL! If that's the case, they should have traded whoever they could and start all over with that brilliant logic. Quote Which mock had Fromm dropping to the Bills in the 5th----and them drafting him? Mock drafts are worthless for predicting anything after the 1st round, never mind the 5th round. The point in mentioning this was to say that no one was calling for the Packers to draft a QB in the 1st round, which is entirely different from taking a backup QB in the 5th round. 4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Nope, no way. That’s because the dead cap for trading him after this season would be $31.6M. Two more seasons would make it $17.2M. And then under $3M after three more. So unless Rodgers forces a trade they don’t have to be in a hurry to do anything. Rodgers sat for 3 seasons while Favre was the starter and I expect Love to do the same. At minimum it’ll be two, but probably three. I don’t even know that Love will work out at all as a starter in the NFL, but if he does it won’t be replacing Aaron freaking Rodgers next season unless things have really gone off the rails up there in Green Bay. Yeah they can't trade him for 2 years because of the cap hit, as I've repeatedly said. The question is whether ARod plays good soldier or not over the next 2 seasons. Edited April 29, 2020 by Doc 2
FireChans Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Doc said: So they were so thoroughly out-classed by the 49'ers that they...decided to give up and draft a project QB who won't help them for at least 2 years? LOL! If that's the case, they should have traded whoever they could and start all over with that brilliant logic. Mock drafts are worthless for predicting anything after the 1st round, never mind the 5th round. The point in mentioning this was to say that no one was calling for the Packers to draft a QB in the 1st round, which is entirely different from taking a backup QB in the 5th round. Yeah they can't trade him for 2 years because of the cap hit, as I've repeatedly said. The question is whether ARod plays good soldier or not over the next 2 seasons. That’s not true. 20 minutes ago, FireChans said: I think this is right. Next year is his last year in GB. Trading him in 2021 post 6/1 will give them $22M in savings, with a $14M and $17M hit spread out over two seasons. He’s actually quite movable next year.
Mr. WEO Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 30 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: I have no clue but I don't really know what it has to do with what you commented on, I would have said back in the day that what they did to Favre was cold but the difference being is Favre would always talk about retirement year after year and Rodgers has stated many times that Tom Brady has set the bar and he feels his time is not up yet. Yes, Favre talked incessantly about retirement with the Packers....then the Jets......then the Vikings. lol Anyway....it doesn't matter what Rodgers says. The team see's his horizon for no longer being with them as short enough to draft his replacement. Brady never talked about hanging it up, yet they drafted his replacement anyway.
Doc Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: That’s not true. From what I gather, ARod has a roster bonus of $6.8M due on the 3rd league year in 2021, which is somewhere in March. If they wait until June 1st to cut/trade him, sure they can spread out the $31.556M dead cap/bonus hit, but that's another $6.8M on their books for 2021, pushing it to $14.3M. And since his salary in 2021 in $14.7M, they're saving around $500K, not $22M. He could very well force their hand to trade/release him. Depends on how he wants to play it.
GunnerBill Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 31 minutes ago, Doc said: Mock drafts are worthless for predicting anything after the 1st round, never mind the 5th round. The point in mentioning this was to say that no one was calling for the Packers to draft a QB in the 1st round, which is entirely different from taking a backup QB in the 5th round. I don't really know why that matters? Nobody had them taking a Quarterback in 2005 either. The fact is a team with a 36 year old franchise Quarterback saw an opportunity to take a Quarterback they had a first round grade on for the sake of a trade up that only cost them a 4th round pick. I don't care if they thought they were 1 piece away or 10 pieces a way from making a run with Rodgers. I thought Bills fans of all people would realise until you have a Quarterback you are nowhere. I hope in 12 years time the Bills are facing a similar decision with their Superbowl winning, franchise Quarterback on the back 9 of his career are faced with the same decision as Green Bay and make the same choice. It is just smart football strategy.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Say what? NE drafted Jimmy G to take over for Brady (3 NE SB appearances ago). They've given Brady 1 1st round WR in 20 years and that was last year. Steelers drafted Mason Rudolph 2 years ago because their long-time franchise QB is nearing the end of his career. They drafted QBs 2 years in a row---and both of them started last year. My "position" on this is the same as the entire Packers organization. The difference between them and NE and Steelers is that GB picked a much better prospect at replacement. You're "riled up" because you can't understand the logic of the Packers move. But it really isn't that hard. You just make it so. No one here really "cares" what they do---so why point that out? It's a given. It doesn't matter what Rodgers thinks. He knows this business. His clock has been ticking. There was no player that would get that Packers team past a far far better SF team---the people who run the Packers felt that was overwhelming clear after that game. That team has many holes. They over achieved--the window slammed shut as they were brutally exposed by the 49ers. Who can't see that? So given that ,and that no one knows how much longer Rodgers will be effective, it makes sense to get a guy projected top 10 at the back of the 1st. Maybe they are tired of Rodgers and his moping around. Maybe they deal him in 2 years, as you suggested is possible. If so, this was a smart move right now. Which mock had Fromm dropping to the Bills in the 5th----and them drafting him? NE's second leading receiver the past 2 years has been their RB White. Why can't Rodgers just make Lazard and Valdez-Scantling and Allison or Jimmy Graham better receivers? It is, in fact. It's why the thread was started. He had 4,000 yards, 26 tds, 4 ints with Lazard as his second leading receiver in a “bad year.” What qb besides maybe Mahomes is going better with that group? 16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Yes, Favre talked incessantly about retirement with the Packers....then the Jets......then the Vikings. lol Anyway....it doesn't matter what Rodgers says. The team see's his horizon for no longer being with them as short enough to draft his replacement. Brady never talked about hanging it up, yet they drafted his replacement anyway. There is talk that the Jimmy G stuff lead to a a divide between Brady and Belichick.
Doc Posted April 29, 2020 Posted April 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't really know why that matters? Nobody had them taking a Quarterback in 2005 either. The fact is a team with a 36 year old franchise Quarterback saw an opportunity to take a Quarterback they had a first round grade on for the sake of a trade up that only cost them a 4th round pick. I don't care if they thought they were 1 piece away or 10 pieces a way from making a run with Rodgers. I thought Bills fans of all people would realise until you have a Quarterback you are nowhere. I hope in 12 years time the Bills are facing a similar decision with their Superbowl winning, franchise Quarterback on the back 9 of his career are faced with the same decision as Green Bay and make the same choice. It is just smart football strategy. In 2005, the Packers weren't a game away from the SB. They had just lost badly to the hated division-rival Vikings in a wildcard game at home. And Favre had taken a beating over his career, having played mostly during the era where they didn't protect QB's and didn't last as long as they do now.
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