Draft Day Winners Going Into Day 3

[Logic]

First, let me put in a good word for the Jags: CJ Henderson, K’lavon Chaisson, and Leviska Shenault is a dope draft.

 

Second, I found it interesting that both the Raiders and Broncos, who share a division with the Chiefs, were like “GIVE US ALL THE OFFENSE!”

 

Both of them, rather than loading up their defebse, are loading up their offense. I get it! You’re likely not gonna stop them often, might as well figure out how to outscore them!

Edited April 25, 2020 by Logic

[Kirby Jackson]

16 minutes ago, Reader said:

 

Broncos are kind of an enigma to me, I mean they're not the Raiders, I'm just surprised that pick 1 and 2 were WR.

They needed them. They have Jeudy and Sutton on the outside with Hamler in the slot. That offense took a GIANT step forward.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

I can’t stand this mentality. When we took Epenesa ESPN said “solid but not a star” so that’s what all the parrots are saying. The guy was a sack monster at a need position and is incredible against the run. We got a first round talent in the first and a second round talent in the third at NEED POSITIONS. 
 

Flashy “Star players” are for the Rex Ryan regime. We’re clearly building a TEAM that’s good at everything. Every player can’t be a “star” and but we have highly above average guys at nearly every position now.

 

Yea Kirby is no parrot. Nor am I. Solid but not stars is exactly how I would describe our picks. And I think that is a good thing. The people taking that as an insult are the issue. 

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

They needed them. They have Jeudy and Sutton on the outside with Hamler in the slot. That offense took a GIANT step forward.

 

And Fant at tight end. Lock only needs to be okay.....

1 minute ago, Logic said:

First, let me put in a good word for the Jags: CH Henderson, K’lavon Chaisson, and Leviska Shenault is a dope draft.

 

second, I found it interesting that both the Raiders and Broncos, who share a division with the Chiefs, were like “GIVE US ALL THE OFFENSE!”

 

Both of them, rather than loading up their defebse, are loading up their offense. I get it! You’re likely not gonna stop them often, might as well figure out how to outscore them!

 

Disagree of the Jags. But then I am not a Henderson or a Shenault fan. 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

I can’t stand this mentality. When we took Epenesa ESPN said “solid but not a star” so that’s what all the parrots are saying. The guy was a sack monster at a need position and is incredible against the run. We got a first round talent in the first and a second round talent in the third at NEED POSITIONS. 
 

Flashy “Star players” are for the Rex Ryan regime. We’re clearly building a TEAM that’s good at everything. Every player can’t be a “star” and but we have highly above average guys at nearly every position now.

If you look back I’ve said that about him for 2 months. This isn’t groupthink on my part. He has a limited ceiling because he has limited athleticism. He is a solid player and will be a solid contributor. You don’t draft 2 solid contributors and claim to win the draft.

[gonzo1105]

I get that we will consider ourselves big winners but draft pundits prob won’t include Diggs in their articles so I don’t expect to be on a lot of their big winners. 

 

I think there have have been a lot of good drafts. A lot of depth makes a lot of drafts look good. 

 

As for the worst imo:

Patriots

Falcons

Raiders

[Reader]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If you look back I’ve said that about him for 2 months. This isn’t groupthink on my part. He has a limited ceiling because he has limited athleticism. He is a solid player and will be a solid contributor. You don’t draft 2 solid contributors and claim to win the draft.

 

I don't think anyone who consistently reads your or Gunner's posts would think of either of you as parrots. This is the first football thing we have had in weeks combined with Corona. I am sure there is a higher need to feel validated in that the Bills are doing well than in past years.

[Rigotz]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If you look back I’ve said that about him for 2 months. This isn’t groupthink on my part. He has a limited ceiling because he has limited athleticism. He is a solid player and will be a solid contributor. You don’t draft 2 solid contributors and claim to win the draft.

Limited athleticism.... alright, I get it now.

 

Yes, he does not run fast in a straight line. If he did run fast in a straight line, he would be a top 10 pick, but he didn’t so we got him in the late second round. He is a great football player, though. So I’m ecstatic and still believe he can be a star.

 

Average 40 time for a defensive end is 4.80, which is what JJ Watt and most other power rushers run. Epenesa ran a 5.04. Those extra 0.20 seconds don’t turn him from a potential star to a role player.

[BuffaloHokie13]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

And Fant at tight end. Lock only needs to be okay.....

And Melvin Gordon and Phillip Lindsay.

[VADC Bills]

7 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

I can’t stand this mentality. When we took Epenesa ESPN said “solid but not a star” so that’s what all the parrots are saying. The guy was a sack monster at a need position and is incredible against the run. We got a first round talent in the first and a second round talent in the third at NEED POSITIONS. 
 

Flashy “Star players” are for the Rex Ryan regime. We’re clearly building a TEAM that’s good at everything. Every player can’t be a “star” and but we have highly above average guys at nearly every position now.

Our picks balled out during the football season but the lost ground at the combine. I have no problem with that. It tells me that they are ballers when the game is being played.

I don't put a lot of stock in the combine especially when players make a jump from a low 2nd rounder to a top 15 pick with out playing a game. I don't care how fast your 40 is or how many reps of 220 you can lift. Let see the game film.

[billsfan1959]

29 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Based on our insistence on mentioning Diggs as a first round pick, shouldn’t we also mention Houston getting Laremy Tunsil this year? I get it, but I think we should just talk about drafted players when grading a draft. Not trying to single you out @billsfan1959 as it does seem to be the prevailing sentiment here.

 

I guess you could look at two ways. One, you could just look at the draft itself in terms of grading players picked. In that case I would still have the Bills in the top ten as they got two players who were great value and filled 2 of the top 3 needs of the team (WR, DE, and RB) going into the off season. Or, two, you could look at what they did with each of the draft picks they had going into the off season.

 

I do not think you can give an overall draft grade without factoring in what the teams did with each of their actual picks, because they did end up selecting a player with that pick, albeit through trade for an established NFL player rather than a draft prospect.

 

So, for me, I think an overall grade should be about what each team did with their draft picks, going into the off season, to make the team better. You are right, Houston should be given credit for Tunsil.

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

He wasn’t drafted by us in this draft. We traded for him well before the draft. He doesn’t count as a draft pick. 

 

Ah, what did we trade for Diggs?

 

I'll hang up and wait....

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Limited athleticism.... alright, I get it now.

 

Yes, he does not run fast in a straight line. If he did run fast in a straight line, he would be a top 10 pick, but he didn’t so we got him in the late second round. He is a great football player, though. So I’m ecstatic and still believe he can be a star.

 

Average 40 time for a defensive end is 4.80, which is what JJ Watt and most other power rushers run. Epenesa ran a 5.04. Those extra 0.20 seconds don’t turn him from a potential star to a role player.

His 1.78 10 yard split matters though. That’s indicative of a guy that doesn’t get off the snap quickly. That’s troublesome. I mean, if you want to pop champagne for the pick because some talking heads had him as a top 20 player go ahead. I’m okay with the pick and think he will be solid. He will backfill the Lawson loss adequately. I’ll be very surprised if he’s a star. His athletic skills are not indicative of a future star (which is why a guy that productive was still there at 54).

[papazoid]

lots of winners

 

ARZ, BAL, BUF, CAR, CIN, CLE, DAL, MIN, NO, 

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

His 1.78 10 yard split matters though. That’s indicative of a guy that doesn’t get off the snap quickly. That’s troublesome. I mean, if you want to pop champagne for the pick because some talking heads had him as a top 20 player go ahead. I’m okay with the pick and think he will be solid. He will backfill the Lawson loss adequately. I’ll be very surprised if he’s a star. His athletic skills are not indicative of a future star (which is why a guy that productive was still there at 54).

Moving beyond this year, Oliver, Epenesa, Jefferson, and Harry is a nice foundation for the DL. There are still guys today with potential to blossom as classic athletic good bend pass rushers. Alton Robinson, Bradlee Anae, and Trevon Hill come to mind. I would not be shocked if we doubled up today on Edge (More athletic freak profile), RB (assuming speed and return ability), or WR

[Reader]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

His 1.78 10 yard split matters though. That’s indicative of a guy that doesn’t get off the snap quickly. That’s troublesome. I mean, if you want to pop champagne for the pick because some talking heads had him as a top 20 player go ahead. I’m okay with the pick and think he will be solid. He will backfill the Lawson loss adequately. I’ll be very surprised if he’s a star. His athletic skills are not indicative of a future star (which is why a guy that productive was still there at 54).

 

Does he seem more in the mold of Lawson or Chris Kelsay. No knock against Kelsay, the guy gets a bad rap, but one doesn't survive 4? 5? regimes if you suck.

[BeastMaster]

Nobody is going to include Diggs into their evaluations of draft winners or losers, so it's kind of a moot point doing so.

 

All I know is I'm happy with the Diggs acquisition and I think we have made two good picks so far.

[BuffaloHokie13]

5 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Nobody is going to include Diggs into their evaluations of draft winners or losers, so it's kind of a moot point doing so.

 

All I know is I'm happy with the Diggs acquisition and I think we have made two good picks so far.

You say that, but I think any analysis starts with "They didn't have a 1st because they used it in the trade for Stefon Diggs". Might not factor into their grades, but it is always included in the analysis.

Edited April 25, 2020 by BuffaloHokie13

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Moving beyond this year, Oliver, Epenesa, Jefferson, and Harry is a nice foundation for the DL. There are still guys today with potential to blossom as classic athletic good bend pass rushers. Alton Robinson, Bradlee Anae, and Trevon Hill come to mind. I would not be shocked if we doubled up today on Edge (More athletic freak profile), RB (assuming speed and return ability), or WR

The DL is so deep. If Oliver becomes the star that I believe he will they are in good shape. I’d be surprised if they doubled down unless Murphy goes. There just aren’t spots. I’m high on Anae and Robinson. I could get behind that. 
 

I’d like to see some speed added (there are a bunch of options left). Hightower, McFarland, Watkins, or Calais depending on if they go RB or WR could be options. They were all sub 4.45 guys. I don’t know them all that well but would prefer the guy that’s the best open field runner.

 

I would also not hesitate to deal one of these late picks for OJ Howard. He’d add another weapon. If he walks after this year you’d have a shot to recoup the pick the following year.

[muppy]

10 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Nobody is going to include Diggs into their evaluations of draft winners or losers, so it's kind of a moot point doing so.

 

All I know is I'm happy with the Diggs acquisition and I think we have made two good picks so far.

not necessarily True. Bleacher report rated the Epenesa draft pick A+ and proceeded to post this specifically look at last paragraph 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2833317-nfl-draft-2019-round-2-3-grades-for-every-pick

Quote

z/Associated Press

A.J. Epenesa, DE, Iowa

Strengths: Size, power, hands, productivity

Weaknesses: Stiffness, testing results

Epenesa is this year's version of DK Metcalf.

For those of you who don't eat, drink and sleep draft folklore, Metcalf ran a 4.33-second 40 while looking like Thor at 228 pounds last season, but his cone and shuttle results were so bad that it caused a draftnik tizzy. Metcalf fell into the second round (as much because of injury concerns as combine results), where the Seahawks drafted him, used him as a screens-and-bombs receiver along the sideline and were rewarded with a 58-catch, 900-yard, seven-touchdown season. The sheer volume of "how did we get this wrong?" navel-gazing among draft hipsters at season's end nearly crashed the internet.

Epenesa had a weak combine, including a 5.04-second 40 with a tortoise-like 1.78-second 10-yard split. The split is the major concern, because it measures the likely distance between Epenesa and the quarterback on a typical play. Epenesa does look rather stiff when changing direction on tape, so the bad workout results appear to verify skepticism about his gaudy collegiate production (22 sacks, 30.5 tackles for a loss in 2018-19). 

So, why didn't the Bills immediately wipe Epenesa off their draft board? For the same reason teams like the Seahawks didn't give up on Metcalf. Draft evaluation is about what a player does exceptionally well, not what he is average to bad at. Epenesa is a power rusher with a great punch, subtle pass-rushing moves and the ability to shed blocks. He's not supposed to be Von Miller screaming off the edge. He's more of a big thumper who takes on offensive tackles directly and holds the point-of-attack on running plays. 

There's also the matter of testimonials: As I wrote during the combine, several opponents (and teammates) called Epenesa the toughest defender they ever faced, or the second-toughest besides Chase Young. The opinions of the guys who had to block him matter more than a 10-yard-split result.

Epenesa projects as a stout defender who will generate eight to 10 sacks in his best years but will be an all-purpose contributor in a typical season. If you don't think that's worth the 54th overall pick, you may have been staring at the combine decimal points a little too long.

The Bills were big winners this offseason. They traded a first-round pick for Stefon Diggs (a smart move, even in a stacked receiver class) and added Josh Norman and Mario Addison to their collection of 2015 Panthers (both should remain useful role players on a deep, talented roster). That put them in the enviable position of being able to add to their strengths instead of drafting for immediate needs. They just added a first-round talent in the middle of the second round. 

Watch out, AFC: The Bills are legit. 

Grade: A+

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Margarita

[FireChans]

Bengals have had a good draft but i guess when you have pick #1 and #33 you are expected to lol.

 

Broncos, Colts and Ravens are my answers. Sneaky like what the Saints have done too, hated them passing on Queen, but then they grabbed Baun later. Solid late picks.