RD 2, Pick 54: DE AJ Epenesa, University of Iowa

[whorlnut]

46 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Well.. DE isn’t usually a position in which a player dominates in right away. As far as my opinion on Epenesa goes, I think he’s stronger and more athletic than people think. Too early to say he’s a wasted asset when players like Ford, Oliver and Edmunds get pass after pass. 

What passes are you talking about?  There are plenty of shots taken at these guys. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by whorlnut

[Mr. Wonderful]

Physically looks like he doesn't have a position- too big for LB, too small for DE.  Like all 2nd round pics, you roll the dice and hope a guy can play.

[TPS]

33 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Shaq Lawson was a mismanagement of assets at 19. That wasn’t a good pick.

 

Besides, his CEILING is Shaq Lawson. His floor is, well, what we saw this year. A whole lot of nothing.

 

This is saying Jimmy Clausen was a good pick because he was better than Jamarcus Russell.

Almost all draft analysts had Shaq as a R1 pick. Mayock had him at 13 in his top 100 list, so I'm not sure what standard you're using in judging it was not a good pick?

 

As for Epenesa, it's way too early to judge him especially given how the 2020 offseason went.  Personally, I re-watched the second Dolphins game specifically to focus on him and I came away somewhat impressed (I also started a thread on him at that time).  He is much quicker at the lower weight. He got pressure on most of his pass rushes.  If anything, it looks like he is a tad slow off the snap, which I'm sure he can work on.  Again, for the 54th pick, it's very rare to find an edge rusher who is a difference maker. 

 

I think Epenesa will turn out to be a solid piece on the Bills DL, but of course they need a difference maker, and given where they will be picking for awhile, that might be hard to come by in the draft....

 

If anyone is interested, here's a link to that discussion earlier this month:

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by TPS

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

 I'd say you did alright if you got a guy with the 54th pick who is as good as a guy that was picked at 19.

But the guy who was picked at 19 played like a guy who was picked at 54.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, TPS said:

Almost all draft analysts had Shaq as a R1 pick. Mayock had him at 13 in his top 100 list, so I'm not sure what standard you're using in judging it was not a good pick?

 

As for Epenesa, it's way too early to judge him especially given how the 2020 offseason went.  Personally, I re-watched the second Dolphins game specifically to focus on him and I came away somewhat impressed (I also started a thread on him at that time).  He is much quicker at the lower weight. He got pressure on most of his pass rushes.  If anything, it looks like he is a tad slow off the snap, which I'm sure he can work on.  Again, for the 54th pick, it's very rare to find an edge rusher who is a difference maker. 

 

I think Epenesa will turn out to be a solid piece on the Bills DL, but of course they need a difference maker, and given where they will be picking for awhile, that might be hard to come by in the draft....

 

If anyone is interested, here's a link to that discussion earlier this month:

 

He wasn’t a good pick because he’s not even on the team anymore and we declined his fifth year option? Hello?

[Green Lightning]

23 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Disagree. Totally disagree. KCs offense is great. They have weapons all over the place. You just can’t stop them no matter how great your defense is. They literally have to crap on themselves for you to beat them. You have to be able to keep up with KC in a shootout, meaning you have to have weapons on offense to match them.

 

Disagree, totally disagree. You need to be able to make a stop a few times a game and slow their roll. You just can't suck. A tough D will slow down KC. We just sucked. 

[whorlnut]

17 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Disagree, totally disagree. You need to be able to make a stop a few times a game and slow their roll. You just can't suck. A tough D will slow down KC. We just sucked. 

So now you’ve resorted to mocking since I don’t agree with you. Ok...cool...
 

We are a top ten defense already. Good offenses beat good defenses. Just ask the Rams how their number one defense made out against the packers number one offense. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by whorlnut

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

That's all well and good for the regular season and the first playoff game.  But a 1st round pick at WR or on defense might have helped them score more points or limit points against the Bucs.  We don't know.  What he do know for sure, and there's no debate about it, is that Jordan Love did nothing to help the team this year.  And as a result, Rodgers wants out.

 

It wasn't a lack of Defense that prevented them from scoring more points.  The QB and the HC screwed up.

 

There is no D rookie who would, over the course of the year or that game, have changed the outcome.  Any current Defender could have done so.  That wasn't the problem.  Nothing could be more clear after the season the Packers had or the way that game ended.  No cogent argument otherwise exists anymore.

 

What better team with more weapons does Rodgers imagine he's headed to? 

[TPS]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

He wasn’t a good pick because he’s not even on the team anymore and we declined his fifth year option? Hello?

Drafted by the previous regime, yet they did make him an offer. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.palmbeachpost.com/amp/5822358002

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

It wasn't a lack of Defense that prevented them from scoring more points.  The QB and the HC screwed up.

 

There is no D rookie who would, over the course of the year or that game, have changed the outcome.  Any current Defender could have done so.  That wasn't the problem.  Nothing could be more clear after the season the Packers had or the way that game ended.  No cogent argument otherwise exists anymore.

 

So you're saying that no rookie could have helped them score more points or prevented points from being scored and that's the best the Packers could have been?  Yeah, that's not even close to being a cogent argument.  That's speculation at best.  The only actual cogent argument is that Love predictably didn't help them at all.

 

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

What better team with more weapons does Rodgers imagine he's headed to? 

 

You'd have to ask him.

 

[Richard Noggin]

5 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Well.. DE isn’t usually a position in which a player dominates in right away. As far as my opinion on Epenesa goes, I think he’s stronger and more athletic than people think. Too early to say he’s a wasted asset when players like Ford, Oliver and Edmunds get pass after pass. 

 

Wait, WHAT? 

 

I'm not seeing a lot of free passes being issued to Cody Ford or Tremaine Edmunds. I'm seeing steady criticism of varying severity. 

 

(I left out Oliver because most people seem to understand that he's already an effective pro, albeit conspicuously underperforming on the stat sheet most games. And that's some of the issue here, a lack of quantifiable, impact plays.)

4 hours ago, Mr. Wonderful said:

Physically looks like he doesn't have a position- too big for LB, too small for DE.  Like all 2nd round pics, you roll the dice and hope a guy can play.

 

3-4 OLB at his current weight. 3-4 DE at his college weight. Kind of a misfit in a 4-3, so far.

 

No matter what, Epenesa will never be "small" by NFL standards. He's long and strong at any weight. 

[Mr. WEO]

43 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So you're saying that no rookie could have helped them score more points or prevented points from being scored and that's the best the Packers could have been?  Yeah, that's not even close to being a cogent argument.  That's speculation at best.  The only actual cogent argument is that Love predictably didn't help them at all.

 

 

You'd have to ask him.

 

No one is arguing Love helped them this year.  A point not worth making.

 

What drafted player do you imagine would have allowed them to win that game?  Pick one.  
 

Yours falls under the category of the “well, anything can happen” argument.  It proposes that any infinitesimally small chance is greater than zero chance.  As such, It’s a completely unpersuasive argument.

 

Rodgers and LaFleur, and not some imaginary super rookie not drafted, lost that NFCC game doc.

 

I can’t ask Rodgers is headed next (unlikely as it is he’s leaving), so I ask you, since you mentioned it.  Where could he go? 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

Drafted by the previous regime, yet they did make him an offer. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.palmbeachpost.com/amp/5822358002

He was still a bad pick. 

[MrEpsYtown]

What happened to AJ happens rookie ends sometimes. His major issue is clearly the weight thing. They asked him to come in lighter and he got too light. He should be playing at 270ish. Without OTAs and such, I am guessing they were not able to really see his progress first hand. It sucks, but he will be back to a better weight and be a contributor. There were definitely flashes to his game, but he has to put some of that bulk back on. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

What happened to AJ happens rookie ends sometimes. His major issue is clearly the weight thing. They asked him to come in lighter and he got too light. He should be playing at 270ish. Without OTAs and such, I am guessing they were not able to really see his progress first hand. It sucks, but he will be back to a better weight and be a contributor. There were definitely flashes to his game, but he has to put some of that bulk back on. 

 

I agree. I thought he flashed some in the final 6-8 weeks. Really since that Chargers game where I thought he played really well. I don't think the Bills were "trying to turn him into a speed rusher" either as has been speculated here, I think they just felt his body fat needed to come down a bit and turn that into more efficient muscle strength and he just lost a bit too much weight as a result. He is a guy whose body is still a work in progress and I think it is unfair to make any determinative judgment on him as a player until they have that where they want it. 

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

What happened to AJ happens rookie ends sometimes. His major issue is clearly the weight thing. They asked him to come in lighter and he got too light. He should be playing at 270ish. Without OTAs and such, I am guessing they were not able to really see his progress first hand. It sucks, but he will be back to a better weight and be a contributor. There were definitely flashes to his game, but he has to put some of that bulk back on. 

I think you’re right.  They should’ve allowed him to remain in the 270’s and he would’ve been able to penetrate and contain better.  He’s just not the same as a 255 lbs. Hughes.  Epenesa is more like a Phil Hansen type than a light quick burst Hughes.  Hopefully he’ll figure it out in the off season.

[Doc]

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

No one is arguing Love helped them this year.  A point not worth making.

 

What drafted player do you imagine would have allowed them to win that game?  Pick one.  
 

Yours falls under the category of the “well, anything can happen” argument.  It proposes that any infinitesimally small chance is greater than zero chance.  As such, It’s a completely unpersuasive argument.

 

Rodgers and LaFleur, and not some imaginary super rookie not drafted, lost that NFCC game doc.

 

I can’t ask Rodgers is headed next (unlikely as it is he’s leaving), so I ask you, since you mentioned it.  Where could he go? 

 

Yeah, a 1st round pick that could have played had a far greater chance of helping the team than one that didn't.  This isn't hard WEO.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, a 1st round pick that could have played had a far greater chance of helping the team than one that didn't.  This isn't hard WEO.

 

Helping them do....what?  Not kick that FG.  Would he have shouted to Rodgers:  "Run it in!!"  

 

Looking back, the Packers should never have drafted Rodgers when the Packers were desperate for weapons, had a crappy D and after winning the Div, got blown out in the WC.   lol.  The Pack went into the tank after that, unlike the 2019 Packers, who actually got BETTER in 2020.  

 

No, this isn't hard doc.  Rodgers, not the Love pick, cost them a trip to the SB.  Plain and simple.  No magical rookie you have in mind changes what we all saw.

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Helping them do....what?  Not kick that FG.  Would he have shouted to Rodgers:  "Run it in!!"  

 

Looking back, the Packers should never have drafted Rodgers when the Packers were desperate for weapons, had a crappy D and after winning the Div, got blown out in the WC.   lol.  The Pack went into the tank after that, unlike the 2019 Packers, who actually got BETTER in 2020.  

 

No, this isn't hard doc.  Rodgers, not the Love pick, cost them a trip to the SB.  Plain and simple.  No magical rookie you have in mind changes what we all saw.

 

There were a lot more plays than just that one, and not all of them involved Rodgers.  You know this WEO.

 

I'll stand by my stance that a rookie 1st rounder could have helped a lot more than Love did.  If you want to think that nothing would have changed the outcome, be my guest.

[fansince88]

8 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

What happened to AJ happens rookie ends sometimes. His major issue is clearly the weight thing. They asked him to come in lighter and he got too light. He should be playing at 270ish. Without OTAs and such, I am guessing they were not able to really see his progress first hand. It sucks, but he will be back to a better weight and be a contributor. There were definitely flashes to his game, but he has to put some of that bulk back on. 

Beane mentioned that. Im sure the conversation has been had. He will do what he can to develop in the off season or they will eventually move on. Trusting the process.