whatdrought Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Ferrel is too early to tell he wasn't lighting the world on fire but he did show some flashes (4.5 sacks is not tragic for a rookie) DE's take some time to develop so I wouldn't call that pick a miss just yet. But I would agree that if they are giving up pick 19 for Yannick that squanders a big part of what they got for Mack. Yannick is a very good player but I am not giving up a 1st and a 18-20 million dollar a year contract for a very good player. The Raiders would be generous to offer their two 3rd round picks for Yannick and the Jags should be happy to get that haul. Right, but unless Ferrell becomes as good as mack, the idea remains. If you trade a player for huge assets that can be good, but if you turn around and dump all of the assets right into replacing that player, it's stupid.
Doc Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 Mack only had 4 sacks as a rookie so there's hope for Ferrell. But I was glad they took him because that allowed Oliver to slide. 5
billsfan89 Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Right, but unless Ferrell becomes as good as mack, the idea remains. If you trade a player for huge assets that can be good, but if you turn around and dump all of the assets right into replacing that player, it's stupid. The Raiders also got cap relief by not having to pay Mack a huge contract so not only did you get the two first round picks but you also don't have a 23 million dollar aav contract on your books. Now I do agree that you have to take those picks and that space and either replace the player and add other picks or you have to actually use those picks to build other avenues of the roster and replace those players some other way. Right now the Raiders are chasing ghosts with that pick and space. I think if they do manage to land Yannick without giving up either of their first round picks and the contract isn't too bad then they at least have a prime time pass rusher with a young guy opposite him and they would still have the two firsts there to build the roster in other avenues.
whatdrought Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: The Raiders also got cap relief by not having to pay Mack a huge contract so not only did you get the two first round picks but you also don't have a 23 million dollar aav contract on your books. Now I do agree that you have to take those picks and that space and either replace the player and add other picks or you have to actually use those picks to build other avenues of the roster and replace those players some other way. Right now the Raiders are chasing ghosts with that pick and space. I think if they do manage to land Yannick without giving up either of their first round picks and the contract isn't too bad then they at least have a prime time pass rusher with a young guy opposite him and they would still have the two firsts there to build the roster in other avenues. At this point they'll be paying Yannick pretty close to the level of what Mack wanted then. Right, that would be a good move. Trading back the Mack pick feels like a wash.
Malazan Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) Jags should take 19 and run. That's way more than I thought they'd end up with given the whole twitter tirade, his attitude, and monetary demands. Edited April 23, 2020 by jeremy2020 2
Rc2catch Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 Raiders or any team would be silly to give up a first and pay the guy. He’ll be cheaper or released later. Raiders have a really nice young core of guys on cost effective contracts, keep the cheaper youth movement Mayock. 1
JohnC Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: That feels like a big price for him. It feels like an odd fit with the young guys that they have at the position. I wonder if they deal one of the guys from last year for a pick? Why wouldn’t you just sign Clowney (who I think is the better player) and keep the pick? The issue with signing Clowney is what does he want on a longer term deal? In hindsight, wouldn't it have been better to pay Mack what his top market value was at the time and then build from there? If you have an anchor player in hand why not just keep him and then build from there? From a player standpoint the pay system is stacked against a premier player if the timing isn't right for the player when his contract comes up. Edited April 23, 2020 by JohnC 1
Mark Vader Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 2 hours ago, ALLEN-2-DIGGS-TD!! said: Chucky Chucky Chucky 2 hours ago, The Jerk said: Hindsight is 50\50 to Gruden. About this potential trade.....Does anyone think that Gruden has more say over this than Mike Mayock?
Kirby Jackson Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, JohnC said: The issue with signing Clowney is what does he want on a longer term deal? In hindsight, wouldn't it have been better to pay Mack what his top market value was at the time and then build from there? If you have an anchor player in hand why not just keep him and then build from there? From a player standpoint the pay system is stacked against a premier player if the timing isn't right for the player when his contract comes up. They’re going to have to pay Yannick if they make the trade. They should have absolutely just kept Mack IMO. 1
billsfan89 Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 52 minutes ago, whatdrought said: At this point they'll be paying Yannick pretty close to the level of what Mack wanted then. Right, that would be a good move. Trading back the Mack pick feels like a wash. If Yannick got 18-20 he would be making 3-5 million less than Mack but your point stands that it is pretty marginal the difference. If they traded pick 19 for Yannick that would remind me of the Randy Moss trade from Minny to Oakland. The Vikings got Napoleon Harris a good linebacker and the 7th pick in the draft (I think they might have also gotten a later round pick thrown in there) for Moss and they spent the 7th pick on a WR who was a reach and a bust. I get that Moss leaving left a huge hole on the roster but you could try and fill that hole using other resources and then built up other parts of the roster with that 7th pick. Instead they chased the vapors of Moss by somewhat reaching on Williamson when they could have taken a good defensive piece (either one of the corners taken after who both ended up being good or DeMarcus Ware if they wanted a pass rusher) and set up their team for success by building a much stronger defense.
BeastMaster Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 How dumb are the Jags to not take the 19th pick for this guy? I'd consider that a huge win given his contract demands and unwillingness to play for them. Fools 3
SCBills Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 I guess if you’re the Raiders, you know you have Mahomes in your division for the next decade. You have to be able to get after him. If we’re who we think we are, and will be looking at the Chiefs/Mahomes as who we need to beat in the AFC, I’m certainly ok with him having to face a Raiders pass rush of Ngakoue, Crosby & Ferrell 2x per year.
Fr. Jerk Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mark Vader said: About this potential trade.....Does anyone think that Gruden has more say over this than Mike Mayock? All I know is Gruden said it's hard to find a pass rusher. Very true, especially when you trade away the best. Edited April 23, 2020 by The Jerk 1
billsfan_34 Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 5 hours ago, ColeB said: Raiders are so dumb. They had Mack and Amari Cooper and since they traded them, they’ve continued to focus on replacements for them. Isn’t Yannick a DE? Is there something I am missing here? Can he play LB and WR. I am so confused.
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 8 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: I have faith in Houston offering Watson and their 1st for Yannick! If Jax holds out they'll throw in Watt 3
foreboding Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: That's insane. Then you gotta pay 18mm or more. 7 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said: I think that Mack is considerably better than Ngakoue. For sure. He's a game wrecker.
John from Riverside Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 The raiders continue to either make stupid moves or try to make stupid moves Why not just KEEP Mack
Doc Brown Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 59 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: The raiders continue to either make stupid moves or try to make stupid moves Why not just KEEP Mack Two reasons. They didn't have the cap space to meet his contract demands and the Bears made them an offer that was too good to refuse. Two 1sts, a 3rd, and a 6th. The Raiders pry got the better end of that trade in hindsight.
John from Riverside Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc Brown said: Two reasons. They didn't have the cap space to meet his contract demands and the Bears made them an offer that was too good to refuse. Two 1sts, a 3rd, and a 6th. The Raiders pry got the better end of that trade in hindsight. We will see I guess......right now the Raiders do not look so hot
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