GunnerBill Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: Yes but both paint completely opposite pictures. Do they? That is not my reading at all.
17years&waiting Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 I haven't read the article and I haven't read every page in this thread, but I think I get the idea. A couple thoughts: 1) Is it really possible to make money on any of the minor league teams (Amerks, Knighthawks, Bandits)? I think the best run minor league teams make barely any money. The Rochester Red Wings are publicly owned, so we can see their financials. That's considered a really well run sports team and I think they do well to tread. So, I wouldn't be surprised if all 3 teams lose money. 2) Buffalo is still one of the poorest, smallest markets in major league sports. It has very little corporate presence, so the team can't charge top dollars for suites, club seats, etc. I'm sure in-stadium/arena advertising is much less than other major league teams. Same with market size. The Sabres may have massive TV ratings, but it's still a tiny market. The small ratings in New York, Boston, Washington, etc. may equal out to similar amounts of fan engagement. (I admittedly don't know how good ratings are for any of these teams, just saying). It may take really exceptional management to make money under these conditions for an NHL franchise. Add in many years of mediocre or poor performance on-ice, and losing money doesn't seem surprising. The NFL is a slightly different animal, with shared revenue (Thanks, Ralph), but the challenges of the Buffalo/WNY market are real. I can't judge how well PSE is run, but it may take absolute top-of-the line leadership to ever turn a profit. Just trying to add a different perspective.
billsfan89 Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 Ownership is everything in sports, if you have good ownership you will eventually find success. If Pegula gets cheap or something spills over onto the Bill's operations it is concerning.
PromoTheRobot Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 Just now, GunnerBill said: Do they? That is not my reading at all. One highlights the emotion of disgruntled employees and casts aspersions. The other highlights the economic picture.
GunnerBill Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 Just now, PromoTheRobot said: One highlights the emotion of disgruntled employees and casts aspersions. The other highlights the economic picture. I agree except "casts aspersions" which I am not sure it does. It highlights the personal angle and the emotions and one chooses to focus specifically on the business implications of covid. They are not contradictory.
4merper4mer Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: I stopped at Tim Graham. Hacks gonna hack. He's a commie so he worked in the proletariat crap.
machine gun kelly Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 Pass on this one other than yes, my sister works for the Sabres so worried for her, and I’m also laid off given the pandemic so sucks, but if it weren’t for the Pegulas, we wouldn’t have sports in Buffalo anymore. I hope they find a solution to minimize the impact, but companies retract during these horrible recessions, bordering on a depression if not improved, and my hopes are not there. 1
Coach Tuesday Posted April 20, 2020 Author Posted April 20, 2020 53 minutes ago, FireChans said: You can’t complain about media narratives and then make zero effort to control said narratives. If that’s what the Pegulas (and you) are looking for, that’s asking for the media to carry their water for them. You mean something like State Media, er, Fox News? 1
Kirby Jackson Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 1 hour ago, CommonCents said: I remember you saying this when she took over and you got flamed a bit. I’m still with you on this one! Ha ha, I think I said something to the tune of “I’m more qualified than she was. I was half-joking but I did take some heat. FWIW, it was probably true but there were 30+ people in the building way more qualified than me. That was kind of the point. If you were to rank those 100+ employees in terms of “who is most qualified to lead this” she wouldn’t crack the top 50. Terry wouldn’t either. Now, that’s changed some because there are a bunch of years of experience there. There are still probably 10 or so people though, that they employ (or at least did) better suited to run the show. Those are the people that they should be embracing and looking towards instead of alienating. 1
chris heff Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I agree except "casts aspersions" which I am not sure it does. It highlights the personal angle and the emotions and one chooses to focus specifically on the business implications of covid. They are not contradictory. “What that told me,” said one current PSE employee, “is I’m getting laid off before they cancel that family trip to Tahiti.” the definition of aspersion Edited April 20, 2020 by chris heff 2
Kirby Jackson Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 2 hours ago, FireChans said: If only they gave Kim Pegula the chance to make a statement for her side. For shame. 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Main story Kim rebuttal Even if they did though it would be a statement composed by that guy that’s the head of PR for the Bills. He’s REALLY good from my understanding. So, her “rebuttal” would basically be a well thought out response create by a seasoned PR person. It may or may not be what she actually thinks but it will be a dynamite response because the person doing it is very good at their job. Imagine if they had a whole bunch of people like that? They certainly wouldn’t be here... 1
CountDorkula Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: Hack goes and talks to fired/laid off employees. Said fired/laid off employees have beef and whine about "nepotism" to Hack. Hack writes salacious piece because, as I said, hacks gonna hack. Except some for the people he talked to still work for PSE and the Bills and the Sabres, but hye hacks gona hack.... I will say this, there is more than meets the eye here. 1
Kirby Jackson Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: This of course is true and I don't read this article as saying "the Pegulas are terrible they should get lost." I read it as they are facing some challenging financial times in their businesses away from the Bills but including the Sabres, this was already the case before coronavirus and while that isn't entirely their fault they haven't done a great job as leaders of communicating that message sensitively to staff who fear for, and in some cases have lost, their jobs. I think the sense you get as I said to @Kirby Jackson is that so far the Bills have managed to be slightly sheltered from the worst of that but there is a risk if the situation deteriorates there may be knock on effects. As a non-hockey fan the bolded is frankly all I care about. I'd prefer they sell the Sabres but that's easy for me to say. I think that’s fair but the NFL in general is pretty “idiot-proof.” They print cash. As crazy as it sounds, typically, NFL teams are the worst on the business side. It goes NBA (by a lot), MLB, NHL, and then NFL. The NBA has a lot of money and is very, very cutting edge. They do something and everyone follows. They have the $ to pay the top end people. Baseball is similar but with 81 home games the quality of life for baseball employees sucks. That’s why the top people migrate to the NBA. There are never 15 straight home games that require you to be away from your family. The NHL is closer to the NBA in terms of what they are trying to do but with a fraction of the revenue. It’s tough for the NHL to pay the salaries required because they don’t have the revenues. The NFL is in the enviable position of being able to react to everything. They don’t ever have to lead because they print cash. They let the other leagues “guinea pig” everything and if it works they adopt it. They react while the other leagues have to be more proactive. Hope that makes sense... Edited April 20, 2020 by Kirby Jackson 4
CountDorkula Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I read the article. It is worrying. My conclusion was they need to sell the Sabres but then that is easier for me to say as a non-hockey fan and non-Buffalonian but their core business is facing tough times, the property business similarly and the Sabres are a huge cash drain. The Bills are the cash generator at the moment. If some sandbags need to be thrown overboard start with the loss making teams. I think there is some link, yep. SO most have that backwards. The Sabres, there are maybe 1 or 2 places you could move that team to and they would do better. The Sabres are in virtual no threat to move. The Bills on the other hand. Cities would be lining up to score an NFL team. The Bills would be more profitable in just about any other city. Buffalo/NY wont or cant afford to build the Peguals an NFL stadium Another city could be persuaded to do so.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 59 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: This really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. Just read the piece about the Sabres prior to the season and the Pegulas comments on last season.... they said something to the effect of “they weren’t that bad, they won’t 10 in a row to start the season”..... as if the rest of the season never happened.? They are clueless sports owners who may have got lucky with McBeane, IMO. Oh, McDermott and Beane have masked A LOT. We are very, very, very fortunate to have top end leadership on the football side. I hope that they recognize this and open up the checkbook for them. Just now, CountDorkula said: SO most have that backwards. The Sabres, there are maybe 1 or 2 places you could move that team to and they would do better. The Sabres are in virtual no threat to move. The Bills on the other hand. Cities would be lining up to score an NFL team. The Bills would be more profitable in just about any other city. Buffalo/NY wont or cant afford to build the Peguals an NFL stadium Another city could be persuaded to do so. The bolded just isn’t true. If push comes to shove they will 100% be in. Public/private partnerships are the norm. The Pegula’s will put in their share and the state will too. 2 1
PromoTheRobot Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: The bolded just isn’t true. If push comes to shove they will 100% be in. Public/private partnerships are the norm. The Pegula’s will put in their share and the state will too. I'm hoping the NFL will chill out with the new stadium push for a while, until we know what we're heading for. This was the about the time the Pegulas were going to make their pronouncement. If a new stadium was to be built they'd have to say so now so they'd have time to build it before the current lease expired. So what now? A short extension with the county? 1
Kirby Jackson Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: I'm hoping the NFL will chill out with the new stadium push for a while, until we know what we're heading for. This was the about the time the Pegulas were going to make their pronouncement. If a new stadium was to be built they'd have to say so now so they'd have time to build it before the current lease expired. So what now? A short extension with the county? I think that’s fair and probably true. There will be some concessions with the current state of the economy. 1
CountDorkula Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: I'm hoping the NFL will chill out with the new stadium push for a while, until we know what we're heading for. This was the about the time the Pegulas were going to make their pronouncement. If a new stadium was to be built they'd have to say so now so they'd have time to build it before the current lease expired. So what now? A short extension with the county? The NFL does not and wont stop, I think that is fairly evident as we head for the draft. If anything they will be more aggressive to make up for lost revenues.
Flip Johnson Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It is a good piece of journalism. He talked to a lot of people, many of whom have an ax to grind. PSE is probably overextended and they are going to be hit by the recession just like everyone else and that means people will lose jobs. The "toxic culture" accusations really weren't supported that I could see. 1
Steptide Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) I'm late to the discussion here, but I don't necessarily think it'd be a terrible thing if the Pegulas sold the Sabres and made the bills their primary focus Edited April 21, 2020 by Steptide 2
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