oldmanfan Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: This article is objective too. Graham spoke to former employees, he spoke to current employees and he gave the organisation the chance to respond which it barely did. It isn't "balanced" but news doesn't have to be balanced. Truth sometimes looks one way or another. Graham did everything I would expect an objective reporter researching this piece to do. It came out in a way that doesn't look great for the Pegulas... but that is probably because things really don't look great for the Pegulas. The News article gets you to the same place. The Graham article focuses on the people angle so of course it is going to be more emotive. But there is nothing, at all, in the News article that contradicts anything in the Athletic piece. Graham and his co-author are doing a live Q&A on the Athletic app this evening (afternoon your time) where I suspect they will be asked a lot about this. I intend to follow along for a bit if I have logged off the work laptop by then. I disagree.
billsfan1959 Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: This article is objective too. Graham spoke to former employees, he spoke to current employees and he gave the organisation the chance to respond which it barely did. It isn't "balanced" but news doesn't have to be balanced. Truth sometimes looks one way or another. Graham did everything I would expect an objective reporter researching this piece to do. It came out in a way that doesn't look great for the Pegulas... but that is probably because things really don't look great for the Pegulas. The News article gets you to the same place. The Graham article focuses on the people angle so of course it is going to be more emotive. But there is nothing, at all, in the News article that contradicts anything in the Athletic piece. Graham and his co-author are doing a live Q&A on the Athletic app this evening (afternoon your time) where I suspect they will be asked a lot about this. I intend to follow along for a bit if I have logged off the work laptop by then. This is precisely the point that concerns be about Grahams' objectivity. His lead in to the employee comments ended with, "Pegula, current and former employees say, explained that return on investment included maintaining the family’s lifestyle." Then, one of the very first quotes he uses is, "What that told me, is I’m getting laid off before they cancel that family trip to Tahiti.” You said you were a former journalist, so I am sure you understand about setting a tone. Graham creates an emotional tone at the beginning of this article and it is about changes in the organization that are taking away jobs so that the Pegulas can live their lavish lifestyle. And just for good measure, at the end of the comments by employees, Graham gratuitously throws in, "Terry and Kim Pegula, meanwhile, have paused construction of their new superyacht in Amsterdam." This statement has absolutely no relevance to what is taking place inside the organization - unless it is to reafirm that this is about the Pegulas' self-indulgences at the expense of jobs for the common, everyday worker. All of the actions described can be true. However, it is my suspicion that Graham's article is more about shaping the narrative and motivations. Grahams' history is enough to raise that suspicion. Edited April 21, 2020 by billsfan1959 2
GunnerBill Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: This is precisely the point that concerns be about Grahams' objectivity. His lead in to the employee comments ended with, "Pegula, current and former employees say, explained that return on investment included maintaining the family’s lifestyle." Then, one of the very first quotes he uses is, "What that told me, is I’m getting laid off before they cancel that family trip to Tahiti.” You said you were a former journalist, so I am sure you understand about setting a tone. Graham creates an emotional tone at the beginning of this article and it is about changes in the organization that are taking away jobs so that the Pegulas can live their lavish lifestyle. And just for good measure, at the end of the comments by employees, Graham gratuitously throws in, "Terry and Kim Pegula, meanwhile, have paused construction of their new superyacht in Amsterdam." This statement has absolutely no relevance to what is taking place inside the organization - unless it is to reafirm that this is about the Pegulas' self-indulgences at the expense of jobs for the common, everyday worker. All of the actions described can be true. However, it is my suspicion that Graham's article is more about shaping the narrative and motivations that bothers me. Grahams' history is enough to raise that suspicion. I have no concerns with the article being emotive. It is an article about people's jobs at its core. That is going to generate strong feelings. I have no issues with the tone. I stand by my view. It is a good piece of journalism. 1
blitzboy54 Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 17 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I read the article. It is worrying. My conclusion was they need to sell the Sabres but then that is easier for me to say as a non-hockey fan and non-Buffalonian but their core business is facing tough times, the property business similarly and the Sabres are a huge cash drain. The Bills are the cash generator at the moment. If some sandbags need to be thrown overboard start with the loss making teams. I think there is some link, yep. I am a hockey fan but I agree. They can't seem to make it work you have to shed the dead weight. NHL teams all claim to loose money. I am guessing that's not true but I would be willing to be they don't make very much. The Sabres have been tire fire for so long I don't see how they get out of the hole they have dug themselves
CountDorkula Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: Why do some folks hate Tim Graham so much? Because he doesn't drink the kool-aid. If you don't talk good about buffalo, the bills, or the Pegulas you are just a hack, and it doesn't matter how much of your story has actual fact in it. 2
Warren Zevon Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 18 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: " Two sources close to Bills head coach Sean McDermott say the January meetings left him concerned about low morale eroding the culture he and general manager Brandon Beane have cultivated over the past three years with a meticulous, holistic attitude." This is the most important part of the article. Arguing about the author is a red herring. There should be chatter about a McDermott contract extension after this year and if there isn't it's time to be worried. 3 4
billsfan1959 Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I have no concerns with the article being emotive. It is an article about people's jobs at its core. That is going to generate strong feelings. I have no issues with the tone. I stand by my view. It is a good piece of journalism. I have no problem with an article being emotive either, as long as it is not being used in a disingenuous way. Always respect your opinions, Gunner. As, for me, I suspect Graham was more interested in shaping a narrative. Cheers
CorkScrewHill Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 17 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Tim Graham interviewed almost 40 current/former PSE employees, and the feedback was that dysfunction, nepotism, and cost-cutting pervade the organization. The Pegulas gave a presentation in January, right after the Bills made the playoffs, and one of the stated "three pillars" of organizational goals was "return on investment," which was widely described (and possibly stated by the Pegulas directly, though that seems shocking) as ensuring that the Pegulas can maintain their lavish lifestyle. There is concern that the dysfunction within the Sabres will spill over into the Bills, and McD allegedly is concerned about it. Wait .. one of PSE's goals is to make money??? It is clear that the Athletic, WalMart, Bob's Burger Shack, and each one of us is not concerned about return on investment , why is PSE. Even not-for-profits such as University of Buffalo, United Way, etc .. need to consider the return on investment for things or they end up unable to function. The story may be relevant, but a company caring about ROI .. is a non-issue.
BillsFan2313 Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 16 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: The solution is to hire the right people, give them the resources and get out of the way. Also, I’m seeing that they are losing $40M-$50M on the Sabres? I haven’t read the article but if that’s true it’s a MASSIVE indictment on them. I worked for a team that finished with one of the worst records in the league, had just traded away the greatest player in franchise history and was owned by the NBA. We sold more new season tickets BEFORE the lottery was completed than any team in the league. It was about having a plan and executing it. Anyone that says, “winning is all that matters” has absolutely ZERO clue what it takes to be successful. You build elite staffs so that you are insulated as best as you can be from team performance. That’s what the Bills have done for 25+ years. That’s why Russ Brandon was good at his job. They were a successful operation regardless of the record. Of course it is easier in football but that’s why I used my own experience. It can be done but you need the right people steering the ship. Obviously Botterill is a nightmare but so is Kim. Go get a real GM to run hockey operations and go get a real president to sit over PSE and/or the Sabres. There are a zillion people more qualified to do the job. She had some of them there!! Dave Wheat should have been given total autonomy to run those operations after RB left. That would have been the best move. Empower the right people and get the hell out of the way!! While I dont disagree things you said. The NHL isn't even close to being on the same level as the NBA. The NBA is a global sport, better marketing, a lot better TV deals and revenue. I'm sure your talking about Chris Paul and the Hornets? I mean soccer players are being sold for more than some NHL franchises are worth. I don't think you can compare the NHL to the NBA IMO, when it comes to money.
BarleyNY Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: This is the most important part of the article. Arguing about the author is a red herring. There should be chatter about a McDermott contract extension after this year and if there isn't it's time to be worried. I agree. If that’s accurate - and it’s reasonable to think that it is - then there is cause for concern. I don’t have a subscription, but there are people here who have discussed low energy prices and losses from the Sabres impacting the Bills. If the Bills organization is being stressed to make up for poor performance of other businesses in the Pegula portfolio, then that is also a major cause for concern. I can’t overstate that. 1
YoloinOhio Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 26 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: This is precisely the point that concerns be about Grahams' objectivity. His lead in to the employee comments ended with, "Pegula, current and former employees say, explained that return on investment included maintaining the family’s lifestyle." Then, one of the very first quotes he uses is, "What that told me, is I’m getting laid off before they cancel that family trip to Tahiti.” You said you were a former journalist, so I am sure you understand about setting a tone. Graham creates an emotional tone at the beginning of this article and it is about changes in the organization that are taking away jobs so that the Pegulas can live their lavish lifestyle. And just for good measure, at the end of the comments by employees, Graham gratuitously throws in, "Terry and Kim Pegula, meanwhile, have paused construction of their new superyacht in Amsterdam." This statement has absolutely no relevance to what is taking place inside the organization - unless it is to reafirm that this is about the Pegulas' self-indulgences at the expense of jobs for the common, everyday worker. All of the actions described can be true. However, it is my suspicion that Graham's article is more about shaping the narrative and motivations. Grahams' history is enough to raise that suspicion. Tbh i had similar thoughts after reading this. This article seizes the audience on McDermott’s alleged concern. I mentioned that there were assertions that went unchallenged. Read the words. “Two sources close to mcdermott say the January meetings left him concerned.” And that’s it? Were the sources told by mcdermott that he was concerned? Did the sources surmise that on their own? Did mcdermott do anything that showed he was concerned? The sources say what mcdermott is thinking. There is no sense that Tim reached out to mcdermott or bills PR to get mcdermott to confirm or deny or no comment. You can’t let someone else tell you what someone is thinking without giving that a person a chance to respond even if they don’t. The story is filled with similar loose ends... It references “current” employees - do they for certain have less of an axe to grind? How many of those current employees were technically furloughed or had their salary cut? And hence ... they may also have an axe to grind. Look at the entire top of the story about the presentation and the power point slide. He had access to Kim and she answered everything he asked. So, questions that he could have raised..., what was she trying to get across in that presentation, or with that slide? Would it surprise her to hear that some of her employees took it to mean xyz instead? How does she respond to the notion that maintaining lifestyle is more important than the business' success? Three direct questions. But ... that would/could have ruined Tim's narrative. just some food for thought 4 1
eball Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: This is precisely the point that concerns be about Grahams' objectivity. His lead in to the employee comments ended with, "Pegula, current and former employees say, explained that return on investment included maintaining the family’s lifestyle." Then, one of the very first quotes he uses is, "What that told me, is I’m getting laid off before they cancel that family trip to Tahiti.” You said you were a former journalist, so I am sure you understand about setting a tone. Graham creates an emotional tone at the beginning of this article and it is about changes in the organization that are taking away jobs so that the Pegulas can live their lavish lifestyle. And just for good measure, at the end of the comments by employees, Graham gratuitously throws in, "Terry and Kim Pegula, meanwhile, have paused construction of their new superyacht in Amsterdam." This statement has absolutely no relevance to what is taking place inside the organization - unless it is to reafirm that this is about the Pegulas' self-indulgences at the expense of jobs for the common, everyday worker. All of the actions described can be true. However, it is my suspicion that Graham's article is more about shaping the narrative and motivations. Grahams' history is enough to raise that suspicion. 5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Tbh i had similar thoughts after reading this. This article seizes the audience on McDermott’s alleged concern. I mentioned that there were assertions that went unchallenged. Read the words. “Two sources close to mcdermott say the January meetings left him concerned.” And that’s it? Were the sources told by mcdermott that he was concerned? Did the sources surmise that on their own? Did mcdermott do anything that showed he was concerned? The sources say what mcdermott is thinking. There is no sense that Tim reached out to mcdermott or bills PR to get mcdermott to confirm or deny or no comment. You can’t let someone else tell you what someone is thinking without giving that a person a chance to respond even if they don’t. The story is filled with similar loose ends... It references “current” employees - do they for certain have less of an axe to grind? How many of those current employees were technically furloughed or had their salary cut? And hence ... they may also have an axe to grind. Look at the entire top of the story about the presentation and the power point slide. He had access to Kim and she answered everything he asked. So, questions that he could have raised..., what was she trying to get across in that presentation, or with that slide? Would it surprise her to hear that some of her employees took it to mean xyz instead? How does she respond to the notion that maintaining lifestyle is more important than the business' success? Three direct questions. But ... that would/could have ruined Tim's narrative. just some food for thought And this is precisely why I called the OP "irresponsible" for starting the thread with a supposition that is entirely hearsay. Edited April 21, 2020 by eball 2 1
Kirby Jackson Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said: While I dont disagree things you said. The NHL isn't even close to being on the same level as the NBA. The NBA is a global sport, better marketing, a lot better TV deals and revenue. I'm sure your talking about Chris Paul and the Hornets? I mean soccer players are being sold for more than some NHL franchises are worth. I don't think you can compare the NHL to the NBA IMO, when it comes to money. Well certainly there are differences but in this case there are a lot of similarities. The Sabres are way more popular in Buffalo than the Hornets were. The ratings alone speak for that. We are talking about the money that they are generating from the local market in my example. That’s primarily ticket sales and sponsorships. I certainly agree that the franchise values will never be comparable. With that being said, the expenses aren’t comparable either. Player salaries are a % of league revenues in every sport. So while the Sabres won’t generate the revenue of an NBA team they won’t have to pay the players like that either. When it comes to profitability you should be able to do it. To be fair, I didn’t read the article and if those losses are directly from the pandemic than I take back a large portion of my criticism. 1
Coach Tuesday Posted April 21, 2020 Author Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, eball said: And this is precisely why I called the OP "irresponsible" for starting the thread with a supposition that is entirely hearsay. That’s me, eball, a reckless and irresponsible poster. You’ve attacked me twice in this thread. I linked an actual article, the title of my thread said “Article,” and specified what about the article was interesting relative to the Bills. Let me know if you’d like me to tell you what I think of you as a poster, since you feel empowered to attack the messenger. This place is full of internet tough guys, some of whom live in their moms’ basements. Edited April 21, 2020 by Coach Tuesday 1 1
CountDorkula Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said: Wait .. one of PSE's goals is to make money??? It is clear that the Athletic, WalMart, Bob's Burger Shack, and each one of us is not concerned about return on investment , why is PSE. Even not-for-profits such as University of Buffalo, United Way, etc .. need to consider the return on investment for things or they end up unable to function. The story may be relevant, but a company caring about ROI .. is a non-issue. Yes all companies want to make money. Thats the point. There is a difference between that and putting a board deck together where in it it states "we have to cut costs so we can continue to live our lifestyle" and weve had to put a hold on the build of our superyacht. 8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: That’s me, eball, a reckless and irresponsible poster. its like when any national media member says he doesn't believe the Bills, Buffalo or Josh Allen are as good as others say. That reporter immediately becomes a hack and is irresponsible. 1 1
Tesla03 Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 18 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: It's written by Tim Graham, ergo, it's not. He's the Jim Acosta of sports journalism. lol just because you don't like him doesn't mean its a bad article This is a very very huge concern moving forward. Pegula's have shown nothing so far for us to think they are a quality ownership group. Sabres have been a total failure since they acquired the team and the Bills went through a mess until they got lucky with Beane/McD
eball Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: That’s me, eball, a reckless and irresponsible poster. You’ve attacked me twice in this thread. I linked an actual article, the title of my thread said “Article,” and specified what about the article was interesting relative to the Bills. Let me know if you’d like me to tell you what I think of you as a poster, since you feel empowered to attack the messenger. This place is full of internet tough guys, some of whom live in their moms’ basements. Coach, I am sorry you feel that my using the word "irresponsible" qualifies as a personal attack. I think you, just like Tim Graham, wanted to throw something out that would grab peoples' attention. Mission accomplished. Good day sir.
Coach Tuesday Posted April 21, 2020 Author Posted April 21, 2020 1 minute ago, eball said: Coach, I am sorry you feel that my using the word "irresponsible" qualifies as a personal attack. I think you, just like Tim Graham, wanted to throw something out that would grab peoples' attention. Mission accomplished. Good day sir. “Hacks calling others hacks” should have been the title of this thread.
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