Daboll needs better screen play design

[maryland-bills-fan]

Maybe the running back has something to do with it?

[Old Coot]

Screens aren't difficult to design but they are difficult to execute, particularly when a defense can play man because they don't respect your receivers.  In man LB's can key on the RB's.  Next year we may be better at screens because we upgraded at receiver.

[Rochesterfan]

On 4/19/2020 at 9:22 AM, GunnerBill said:

Agree he does. But he also needs an offensive line and Quarterback who don't make it so obvious a screen is coming. It is an area the Bills should really pay attention to in whatever camp we get. The way teams defend Josh because of his legs means you need better than average design and disguise to run screens effectively and the Bills both in the design and execution were not up to it in 2019. 

I think this is a huge and misjudged piece to the puzzle.  Many teams rush outside guys wide to keep Josh in the pocket - putting them in good position to diagnose screens.  They also use LB spy’s on Josh - meaning more guys are looking in the backfield, which helps diagnose screens. Additionally you get some teams like NE playing tight Man coverage that disrupts the screen game as WRs aren’t getting free off the line.

 

The Bills tried to switch some things up by moving to middle screens to combat some of the rush techniques, but the spies worked to blow some of that up as well.  The timing also needs to be better, but I think they are hampered by other things as well.

[PrimeTime101]

WR and RB screens work when you have the total package with all 3 wr and rb doing there thing witch we now have. I also remember getting burnt on screens to.. They wont buy it if you cant sell it. That is unless your name is brady or mahomes.. We have other cute little plays going on now like jets sweep that seems to always work when you need it.

 

 

I can see more screens this year.

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 4/19/2020 at 7:55 AM, Happy Days Lois & Clark said:

When Chan Gailey was coordinator for the Bills they had a very strong screen game which helped a team that lacked  talent on offense perform better than it probably should have.

Brian Daboll’s screen game design is poor. He should look at what Gailey did to make screens successful. If Daboll could come up with a better screen game it would really help the Bills offense. Getting Devin Singletary in space where he can make defenders miss would  really take advantage of his skill set. It also would help out Josh Allen’s short game and completion percentage. 

I think he deliberately stocked up On mobile lineman for screens. I think the downside was they struggled with strong defensive fronts 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

39 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

WR and RB screens work when you have the total package with all 3 wr and rb doing there thing witch we now have. I also remember getting burnt on screens to.. They wont buy it if you cant sell it. That is unless your name is brady or mahomes.. We have other cute little plays going on now like jets sweep that seems to always work when you need it.

 

 

I can see more screens this year.

 

 

 

Yeah, the little jet motion pass is something they have done quite a bit of.  I don't hate shovel passes in the red zone either.  Low level of turnover - even though they counted one as an Allen fumble and confirmed it.  

41 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

WR and RB screens work when you have the total package with all 3 wr and rb doing there thing witch we now have. I also remember getting burnt on screens to.. They wont buy it if you cant sell it. That is unless your name is brady or mahomes.. We have other cute little plays going on now like jets sweep that seems to always work when you need it.

 

 

I can see more screens this year.

 

 

 

I think i watched like 12 games of Brady's last year, and i watched him spike probably 50 screens into the ground.  That may be a conservative estimate.  

[Happy Days Lois & Clark]

Do you think that Daboll makes things too difficult for the players to execute? Has he ever coached a top 15 offense?

[Bookie Man]

Not only on screens but I'd like to see DS catch 5 balls a game this year. Watching all of these old Bills games from early 90's on YouTube, Kelly threw Thurman so many balls. 5-7 yards a time. If Josh can learn to consistently hurt teams with those short quick hitters when it's there, he could be a bad man. 

[maryland-bills-fan]

1 hour ago, Raleigh • √eff said:

Not only on screens but I'd like to see DS catch 5 balls a game this year. Watching all of these old Bills games from early 90's on YouTube, Kelly threw Thurman so many balls. 5-7 yards a time. If Josh can learn to consistently hurt teams with those short quick hitters when it's there, he could be a bad man. 

I agree but it wasn't his strong suit coming out of college and he didn't  wow the world last year.  I don't expect, ever with a lot of coaching, that there will be more than a modest improvement.  Several of the top 5 running backs are good in this area and a RB by committee will add this weapon to the arsenal.

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Happy Days Lois & Clark said:

Do you think that Daboll makes things too difficult for the players to execute? Has he ever coached a top 15 offense?

 

I think he sometimes gets too cute that he outsmarts himself. I'd like to see him at times be a bit more willing to run things that work until the defense stops them.... whereas what Daboll seems to do is see something that works and think "right I'll keep that play in my back pocket until later in the game" and that was part, in my opinion, of what definitely was a pattern of 3rd quarter struggles. The stuff Daboll saw work in the first half he holds back second half until the 4th Quarter.

 

That said the reason he has never coached a top 15 offense is simple - he has never had anything approaching top 15 offensive talent.

 

2009 Cleveland (29th in points): QB: Brady Quinn; RB Jamal Lewis (at 30); WR: Josh Cribbs, Mohammed Massaquoi and Chansi Stuckey; TE: Robert Royal

2010 Cleveland (31st in points): QB: Colt McCoy; RB: Peyton Hillis; WR: Josh Cribbs, Mohammed Massaquoi and Brian Robiskie; TE: Ben Watson

2011 Miami (20th in points): QB: Matt Moore; RB: Reggie Bush; WR: Brandon Marshall, Brian Hartline and Davone Bess; TE: Anthony Fasano

2012 Kansas City (32nd in points): QB: Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn; RB: Jamaal Charles; WR: Dwayne Bowe, Jonathan Baldwin and Dexter McCluster; TE: Tony Moeaki

2018 Buffalo (30th in points): QB: Josh Allen; RB: Lesean McCoy (at 30); WR: Zay Jones, Kelvin Benjamin and Robert Foster; TE: Charles Clay

2019 Buffalo (23rd in points): QB: Josh Allen; RB: Devin Singletary; WR: John Brown, Cole Beasley and Isaiah McKenzie; TE: Dawson Knox

 

I'd say the best two groups of offensive talent Daboll has had are the two years when he has generated the most production. Yes he has coached some bad offenses.... but read those names.... man he has coached some under talented offenses. This coming year should, on paper, be the best group he has had and I'd probably put Allen's 2019 on a par with Matt Moore's 2011 as a passer, so if he can take another step in 2020 it will be clearly the best Quarterbacking Daboll has benefitted from. I think if the offense flat lines in 2020 Daboll will be gone. It needs to be top half of the league for my money. Don't think we have top 10 talent yet but we should be somewhere in that 11-16 type range.

[Chaos]

On 4/19/2020 at 8:35 AM, aristocrat said:

part of the reason is the way the defense plays allen. they set the edge to contain his scrambling and thus running screens becomes a chance for pick sixes

Interesting observation. I had not thought of that.  

[Nihilarian]

What a lot of Bills fans just don't get is that what made Chan Gailey's offense work so well in Buffalo at times were some specific players. Ryan Fitzmagic, CJ Spiller for a season and the biggest reason in my view was WR Stevie Johnson.

 

Gailey's offense didn't work with his first pick in choice of Trent Edwards who was literally cut outright after a few games and the guy who took all the first string snaps in training camp. Ryan Fitzpatrick and Brian Brohm were his second and third choices. His offense also didn't work with Brohm. Being kind to Gailey, the man was damn lucky Fitz was even on his team or otherwise I kinda doubt he wins even four games in 2010, or six games in 2011, 2012. 

 

(So, basically Gailey is a lot like Daboll who really couldn't see the overall talent at QB right in front of him in the preseason. Gailey chose Edwards as his starter even when Bills fans jeered at him over it in OTA's. Daboll chose Nathan Peterman over starting Josh Allen and then thought he was a viable backup. Eventually, My take is that the truth will come out that Daboll is a bum who got a name by his association with Saban, Belichick.)

 

WR Stevie Johnson, who didn't run precise routes and wasn't anything specifically great in size or speed. What he did have was an ability to get open very quickly and Fitz would find him wherever he was and get him the ball in around two seconds.

 

While Fitz had his strong points,  like his pocket escape-ability, quick release and ability to find the open receiver very quickly. He also had some glaring faults while in Buffalo like his inability to run a two min offense (that 2011 week 13 Tennessee game) his rather weak arm and the fact that he would attempt to gun-sling his way to complete some throws. Fitz could look very very good some games and very very bad in others. 

 

What had sold Bills owner Ralph Wilson on Gailey was he stated he didn't need superstars to run his offense as he admitted it was mostly smoke and mirrors. Meaning he would run 4-5 WR sets only to mostly see one WR getting the ball (Johnson) and draws to Spiller out of the shotgun formation which spread the defense out...so with the defense thinking pass... all Spiller needed to do was break a tackle and he was off to the races. NFL defenses soon figured this out and Gailey had some success for a season.

 

There are real reasons as to why Gailey hasn't been employed in the NFL since 2016.

 

 

[billsfan_34]

On 4/19/2020 at 8:29 AM, uticaclub said:

I don't know if Allen can execute a screen pass. 

I saw a few balls at the feet and a few balls behind or too far out front- definitely a concern.

[Happy Days Lois & Clark]

Gailey is a much better OC than Daboll. Both lack some talent, but Gailey has has much better results.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

On 4/19/2020 at 3:39 PM, Buffalo716 said:

I have already touched on this multiple times.

 

Teams set the edge and try to not let Allen outside the pocket. Screens take advantage of teams that Rush heavily

 

Other teams don't rush us heavily so screens aren't as effective because D ends are in their right spot

 

The bills will have to get crafty . One possibility would be to fake a smoke screen to the right, while actually designing the screen back side to the left

 

Teams also play a lot of zone on Allen, because he can run, so they are always looking forward (instead of at their man).  Post-snap misdirection just doesn't work the same.  

[808]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

 

 

While Fitz had his strong points,  like his pocket escape-ability, quick release and ability to find the open receiver very quickly. 

 

 

 

quick release? Fitz dragged the ball across the turf. That throwing motion was awful and super slow?

[Nihilarian]

4 hours ago, 808 said:

quick release? Fitz dragged the ball across the turf. That throwing motion was awful and super slow?

Troll much? 

 

From Oct 2011 a Buffalo Bill.  https://bleacherreport.com/articles/873985-former-nfl-greats-qb-characteristics-that-ryan-fitzpatrick-reminds-me-of

 

Quick Release: reminds me of Dan Marino

 

"Fitzpatrick was decisive with the ball and confident with his decisions on where he was going with it. No hesitation. He dropped back, looked over the field, decided and flung it. Over and over again. The Raiders defensive line just couldn't reach him."

 

Fitz was tough to sack because he got the ball out very quickly and he had great escape-ability. If you state differently its because you never watched him play behind one of the worst offensive lines the Buffalo Bills ever fielded. That 2010 line at the start of the season was all turnstiles and jailbreaks. Fitz had a 6.7 YPC avg rushing that year for 269 yards. The Bills went 0-8 in 2010 for many reasons. 

 

 

 

[808]

Was that article written right after the bills hot start? Lol imagine comparing fitz to dan marino hahaha wow. 
 

im just saying that dudes throwing motion was awful and traveled a long way which made it slower than a traditional release. ??‍♂️.