Morse big contract, Spain re-signed, Dawkins ready for extension, Feliciano last year?

[Manther]

38 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Just wondering: what if dawkins wants 18 mill a year?  Do you pay him that?  

Yes.  Check the box and move on.  No need to squabbled over a million or two a year with the cap going up annually.

[John from Riverside]

A lot of ppl thought Spain would not get resigned.   If the bills want John F.  it will happen........and he plays two positions pretty darn well so they SHOULD resign him

[Aussie Joe]

10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

A lot of ppl thought Spain would not get resigned.   If the bills want John F.  it will happen........and he plays two positions pretty darn well so they SHOULD resign him

I said the same thing about Spain who I wanted to see re-signed... some people have an expectation that every starter is going to be a Top 5 at their position... can’t happen...

 

Spain and Feliciano played pretty well last year and I would be happy with them holding down the G spots the next year or two..they can move on from Spain after 2020 if they want or keep him next year as well at a reasonable cost..in the meantime they can roll the dice on a Day 3 draft pick and see if they can be a cheaper option down the track...

[GunnerBill]

I think Spain who was solid in 2019 will be better in 2020. His best years in 16 and 17 in Tennessee he was an absolute beast. 

 

On Feliciano..... I kind of think his best position is center. The two games when Morse went out hurt and Feliciano slid across the Bills' running game received a boost. He isn't as refined as Morse and doesn't offer as much help in setting protections but when the Bills just want to pound the ball for a series I'd almost be tempted to take Morse out. The issue is the Bills are committed to Morse and that does mean unless Feliciano can be extended very cheaply he probably gets away. 

[Aussie Joe]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Spain who was solid in 2019 will be better in 2020. His best years in 16 and 17 in Tennessee he was an absolute beast. 

 

On Feliciano..... I kind of think his best position is center. The two games when Morse went out hurt and Feliciano slid across the Bills' running game received a boost. He isn't as refined as Morse and doesn't offer as much help in setting protections but when the Bills just want to pound the ball for a series I'd almost be tempted to take Morse out. The issue is the Bills are committed to Morse and that does mean unless Feliciano can be extended very cheaply he probably gets away. 

They are committed to Morse for next year only and after that they can elect to move on from him...

 

I don’t think Morse is going to provide value for money over the life of his deal..

Edited April 19, 2020 by Aussie Joe

[Rocky Landing]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Spain who was solid in 2019 will be better in 2020. His best years in 16 and 17 in Tennessee he was an absolute beast. 

 

On Feliciano..... I kind of think his best position is center. The two games when Morse went out hurt and Feliciano slid across the Bills' running game received a boost. He isn't as refined as Morse and doesn't offer as much help in setting protections but when the Bills just want to pound the ball for a series I'd almost be tempted to take Morse out. The issue is the Bills are committed to Morse and that does mean unless Feliciano can be extended very cheaply he probably gets away. 

I'm not sure I agree with this. Morse was fast on his feet for his size, and blocked well beyond the LOS often. More than a few of Singletary's runs were behind Morse. I've been watching the condensed versions of last season's games, and I've been struck at how fast Morse moved when he was blocking for the running back. I also think Feliciano is the best RG we've had in a long time. 

Honestly, I hope we keep the O-line as is. They finished the season a lot better than they started, and I believe that with continuity, they will be better yet. Especially with whatever limitations the preseason ends up having, I think continuity will be even more of an advantage.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

I'm not sure I agree with this. Morse was fast on his feet for his size, and blocked well beyond the LOS often. More than a few of Singletary's runs were behind Morse. I've been watching the condensed versions of last season's games, and I've been struck at how fast Morse moved when he was blocking for the running back. I also think Feliciano is the best RG we've had in a long time. 

Honestly, I hope we keep the O-line as is. They finished the season a lot better than they started, and I believe that with continuity, they will be better yet. Especially with whatever limitations the preseason ends up having, I think continuity will be even more of an advantage.

 

Morse is good when the is pulling and getting out in space (excluding the fateful play in Houston) but he gets driven back too much in power formations which was one of the reasons we were not a good short yardage team (with our backs obviously...  the Allen sneaks worked well for the most part).

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Would anybody be against the Bills if they eventually  were to kick Ford inside, change Dawkins from LT to RT and go and get a big time LT?

Tipster, good post, as I agree with Ford competing with Spain for the LG spot, but we have Daryl Williams, Ty Nsekhe for the RT, and have bigger needs.  I saw the article this morning about Fournette to the Bills at only a little over $4 mil. On a one year as speculation, and for once I’m not against a RB in free agency.  If we only had to give a late round pick, and he compliments Singletary perfectly.  That would be one reason to maybe get a RT, but I want an Edge Rusher, a possession WR, and if we already have the RB we don’t need to draft one.  In that scenario, I’m cool with a Tackle, and maybe a CB for depth.

 

I’ve said it before, but too bad we didn’t outbid the Browns for Hooper.  We’ll have to wait til next year to draft one as this class is supposed to be weak, and next years looks very good.  I would have dropped before the restructure Kroft, as well as Smith.  As we know, we have to keep adding pieces to this offense as we already have a very strong defense.

 

Our window is now and have a leg up returning so many pieces in a crazy off season.

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Disagree about Feliciano.  Thought he played pretty well.  And he also was playing w only one good arm.. (shoulder surgery after the season)  Morse was pretty good, but needs to be better.  Spain is solid.  I agree w you about Dawkins.  He is average at best.  Not sure where all the love comes for him.  Can't see paying him 15 mill per year or anything close to that.  He plays soft like a Frosty Snowman blowup doll.  Feliciano is a tough guy.  That is an important in the trenches.  We have Spain Long Feliciano Boehm Ford and Boettger competing for 2 starting Guard positions.  The cream should rise to the top.  At tackle we need Dawkins to step his game up.  He doesn't suck.  But he needs to be at least good.  If Darryl Williams can find his game, we will be good there as well.  And maybe Ford finds some quickness that will let him compete outside.  And don't forget Nseke.  There are enuf decent players that our O line should be above average.  Very few great O lines.  Need some first round talent for that.  

 

Not sure what doesn't excite you about our free agents.  Jefferson and Butler are beasts.  Addison can still play.  And AJ Klein is a player as well.  We lost Alexander Phillips and Lawson.  Decent players but not superstars.  I see more upside with the new guys.  And Josh Norman has something to prove.  He brings some toughness as well.  We brought in some good players.  The season is going to ride on our QB.  He has to be a lot better throwing the ball.  Good teams have good QB's.  Always have always will.  I can only think of a few championship type teams that did not have dominant QB's.  85 Bears (although McMahon was pretty good)  2000 Ravens w Trent Dilfer and the 2002 Bucs w Brad Johnson.  And the 2007 Giants.   (I am not an Eli fan.  But he played well in some big games I must admit-but NO to the HOF!!)

Well written Paup.  Agreed with you’re points and would rather use capital on the offensive side for more weapons.

[SCBills]

14 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Feliciano is a below average starter or better than average backup -- however you want to say it. Ford is terrible at RT, but might turn out OK at G. Spain and Dawkins are very average starters. Unless we're aiming for mediocrity, we need to continue working to upgrade the OL. We had  nearly $90 million in cap space and we haven't signed any FA's that I'm even remotely excited about. Boehm is strictly a backup and Williams has been really terrible since his knee injury. I'd love to use our 1st pick on a RT. If not, use it for Lorenzo's replacement and then a RT. Everyone falsely assumes that our OL is 'fixed'. It's not. Not by a long shot. We need to score more points and with Diggs on board, RT is now the biggest 'hole' on offense. TE would be next unless Knox can bring his catch % way up, but that's hard to do when you're always having to adjust to the ball.

I rarely see anyone on here, or even in our FO, say the OL is “fixed”.   Most agree it’s an average line talent-wise with continuity and good depth.  If RT improves, whether it’s Ford getting better or being switched out, that elevates this OL to above average.  There are a lot of teams that would love to have Dawkins, Spain and Morse.  
 

Edited April 19, 2020 by SCBills

[oldmanfan]

13 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Concerning your last point, receivers on every team constantly adjust to the ball, you, me, and the rest of the football world know this, it’s an odd thing to say, being that is exactly what all the great receivers do. watch the Diggs highlights as a for instance. 
 

Go Bills!!!
 

 

It’s not odd.  He goes out of his way to insult Allen at every opportunity.

[MrEpsYtown]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Morse is good when the is pulling and getting out in space (excluding the fateful play in Houston) but he gets driven back too much in power formations which was one of the reasons we were not a good short yardage team (with our backs obviously...  the Allen sneaks worked well for the most part).

I was banging the table for Morse last March and was so ecstatic that we got him and still am. I think he is a top 10-15 center, but I’ve said it a couple of times, I was a little disappointed in his play. He looked a little soft at times. As you mentioned, when he went out a few plays and Feliciano and Long were at C and RG respectfully, we were smashing people in the run game. Now I’m in the camp, by myself pretty much, that the reason for that is that Long is better than Feliciano. Long has proven to be a pretty bad center, but I think he is a more talented guard than Feliciano. I will say that i’d rather have the five starters back than make any changes. All that said, Morse missed most of camp and I hope his second year in the system is better. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, MrEpsYtown said:

I was banging the table for Morse last March and was so ecstatic that we got him and still am. I think he is a top 10-15 center, but I’ve said it a couple of times, I was a little disappointed in his play. He looked a little soft at times. As you mentioned, when he went out a few plays and Feliciano and Long were at C and RG respectfully, we were smashing people in the run game. Now I’m in the camp, by myself pretty much, that the reason for that is that Long is better than Feliciano. Long has proven to be a pretty bad center, but I think he is a more talented guard than Feliciano. I will say that i’d rather have the five starters back than make any changes. All that said, Morse missed most of camp and I hope his second year in the system is better. 

 

I am pretty much with all of that. Not totally convinced I am making your club of 1 a club of 2 on Long but I certainly think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. 

 

With Morse I wonder how much of his softness in the power sets is because he is playing trying to avoid another concussion? Just a thought.  

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

With Morse I wonder how much of his softness in the power sets is because he is playing trying to avoid another concussion? Just a thought.  

 

Nah. It's his weight (304 lbs officially, likely under 300 in reality).   

 

He's great at pulling and getting to the second level, but light in the pants for A-gap run blocking or stymying bull pass rushes...

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

12 hours ago, NewEra said:

Just wondering: what if dawkins wants 18 mill a year?  Do you pay him that?  

Hell no, Bakhtiari is talked about as a top 5 LT. If we moved Dawkins to RT he wouldn't even be a top 10. We will be over paying for a average LT by a large margin.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Nah. It's his weight (304 lbs officially, likely under 300 in reality).   

 

He's great at pulling and getting to the second level, but light in the pants for A-gap run blocking or stymying bull pass rushes...

 

Agreed, it has never been his forte he is a finesse center rather than a road grader but I feel like even compared to his KC stay he was particularly disappointing in those scenarios last year.

[MrEpsYtown]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am pretty much with all of that. Not totally convinced I am making your club of 1 a club of 2 on Long but I certainly think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. 

 

With Morse I wonder how much of his softness in the power sets is because he is playing trying to avoid another concussion? Just a thought.  

 

16 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Nah. It's his weight (304 lbs officially, likely under 300 in reality).   

 

He's great at pulling and getting to the second level, but light in the pants for A-gap run blocking or stymying bull pass rushes...

He does look a little bit slim. But he’s a finesse player. He’s always been more about finesse and intelligence, body positioning, great feet etc. He’s a former left tackle, and if his arms weren’t so short would probably be playing there now. But he’s plenty strong (36 reps) and excellent in pass pro. I tend to agree with Gunner here that he may have been keeping his head out of the double teams, whereas Feliciano is full go smashing with something to prove. Probably why he is so banged up this offseason. At the end of the day, I think these 5 stick together this year, but Morse’s contract is in essence a 2 year deal, and Feliciano is a free agent, so they could both be gone this offseason. 
 

I hope year two, Morse gets more comfortable and Feliciano earns an extension. 
 

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agreed, it has never been his forte he is a finesse center rather than a road grader but I feel like even compared to his KC stay he was particularly disappointing in those scenarios last year.

I was literally typing my response and we both wrote finesse!

Edited April 19, 2020 by MrEpsYtown

[WideRightRevenge]

I think we all need to WOOOSAHHH .. Look at the OL in 2018 ... though not complete .. I loved our 2019 version YOY .... we have a ALL PRO team compared to below.

 

Pro Football Focus (PFF) is aware of the Bills' changes along the offensive line. The analytics site ranked every NFL offensive line and Buffalo's 2018 unit came in at No. 29 on the list.

Here is what PFF had to say about the Bills' offensive line.

PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:

Left Tackle: Dion Dawkins, 74.5 overall grade
Left Guard: Vladimir Ducasse, 75.5
Center: Russell Bodine, 46.8
Right Guard: John Miller, 39.1
Right Tackle: Jordan Mills, 65.7

[Don Otreply]

50 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It’s not odd.  He goes out of his way to insult Allen at every opportunity.

Valid point,

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, WideRightRevenge said:

I think we all need to WOOOSAHHH .. Look at the OL in 2018 ... though not complete .. I loved our 2019 version YOY .... we have a ALL PRO team compared to below.

 

Pro Football Focus (PFF) is aware of the Bills' changes along the offensive line. The analytics site ranked every NFL offensive line and Buffalo's 2018 unit came in at No. 29 on the list.

Here is what PFF had to say about the Bills' offensive line.

PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:

Left Tackle: Dion Dawkins, 74.5 overall grade
Left Guard: Vladimir Ducasse, 75.5
Center: Russell Bodine, 46.8
Right Guard: John Miller, 39.1
Right Tackle: Jordan Mills, 65.7

I don’t love PFF, especially their o-line grades, but do you have this year’s grades on hand as a comparison? 
 

And John Miller is one the worst offensive linemen I’ve ever had the displeasure to watch. Like Colin Brown level terrible.