EJ Manuel Reflects On His Career As The Bills Future QB

[SF Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I think the difference is found between the ears.  Josh has that competitive drive and is more resilient, where EJ just lost all confidence when things didn't go as planned/anticipated. 

 

Agree- when the chips are down, Allen thrives. He doesn't give in. He has that Jim Kelly spirit in him. How many 4th quarter come backs did he engineer last year? I know it was a 3-4. Manuel never had that in him. 

 

[Buffalo Boy]

9 hours ago, Capco said:

 

Didn't Tyrod post the highest passer rating out of any QB since Kelly during his time here?  I know all those QBs sucked to some degree, but he was probably the most serviceable starter we had between Allen and Kelly.  

???

Bledsoe in his first year and Fitz we’re both decidedly better.

Not throwing the ball anywhere NEAR a defender has a way of skewing TTs stats.

Two games to watch: The playoff game and the Carolina game. One at the beginning of the season and one at the end. They tell you all you’ll ever need to know about TTs lack ofQB acumen.

[C.Biscuit97]

13 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

This!!!

 I liked EJ. I really wanted him to succeed.

When that whole thing happened with him not being a Captain and the way he was kind of hurt/ cool with it, I started to get that sinking feeling.

EJ was not the kinda guy to run through a brick wall.

Josh, also nice, has that quality. If he ever has to lay someone out, he’s going to do it without thinking. He doesn’t have any quit in him. It can’t be taught or coached .

And yet, the kid is smart and can be taught , is coach able , and clearly has a great work ethic.

He just needs reps and weapons.

I have my questions about Allen but he plays with the attitude I wish EJ did. EJ was too nice. 

[Buffalo Boy]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I have my questions about Allen but he plays with the attitude I wish EJ did. EJ was too nice. 

I have questions too but he’s progressing.

Something that couldn’t be said for EJ, TT, JP, TE.......

[BarleyNY]

I always have thought that EJ was way over drafted.  The expectations associated with that was what led to him starting so soon (injury to Kolb aside).  He had tools, but was very underdeveloped as a QB coming into the league.  He had a lot of bad habits.  I think it was his second season, he started out looking like he’d kicked most of them.  That was the only point where I was really encouraged.

 

Then things got shaky around him and he reverted back to those bad habits and it was over.  If he’d have been taken in the second or third round and been given a couple seasons to establish good habits and learn the game he might have been a good pro QB.  He had the physical talent to do so. 

[BarleyNY]

28 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

I have questions too but he’s progressing.

Something that couldn’t be said for EJ, TT, JP, TE.......

And it’s worth noting that Allen has progressed in a situation that was as bad as or worse than the others.  The Bills have improved his supporting cast dramatically and it is in a great spot now, but it was really poor in his rookie season - especially the OL.

[Another Fan]

12 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I always have thought that EJ was way over drafted.  The expectations associated with that was what led to him starting so soon (injury to Kolb aside).  He had tools, but was very underdeveloped as a QB coming into the league.  He had a lot of bad habits.  I think it was his second season, he started out looking like he’d kicked most of them.  That was the only point where I was really encouraged.

 

Then things got shaky around him and he reverted back to those bad habits and it was over.  If he’d have been taken in the second or third round and been given a couple seasons to establish good habits and learn the game he might have been a good pro QB.  He had the physical talent to do so. 

I admit to liking drafting him at that time.   I thought he had the physical tools to develop. Still like him from a personality stand point.  
 

He seemed to be a hard worker so I always wonder why it never clicked for him.   Ultimately I just think he didn’t have the mental toughness or a good foundation mentally to withstand playing at that level.   And as he said himself his confidence seem to go down over the years.   
 

Even after he left the Bills I still thought with hard work and good mental coaching to get to the root of his issues he could have still been at the very least a backup QB in the league.

 

But yeah ultimately his choices 

[Happy]

7 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Maybe so, but what Nix and Whaley could have done is not get into this position in the first place where they needed to draft a QB and where there weren’t any backups. 

 

Do you really want to go down the rabbit hole of bad decisions by the regime when it comes to QB?

 

They easily could have made a number of different moves the season prior or in the offseason to make moves to bring in more competition at QB in both 2012 (after they signed Fitzpatrick to starter money and decided he wasn’t a starter) and 2013.  Of course, their only solution to sign an injury-probe backup.

 

To suggest that drafting EJ, a 4th round prospect in the 1st round, was their only option is foolhardy.  Nix and Whaley were bad GM’s and their records reflect that.

 

In 2013 Whaley had little choice but to take EJ Manuel.  2013 QB FAs were slim pickings which is why we landed Kevin Kolb.  Go back and look at the FAs and QB draft class that year and see if you disagree.

2012 is where Nix screwed up, could have had Alex Smith, who went to KC instead.

[NoSaint]

EJ likely could’ve been developed into a functional backup as a mid round pick in a good system. 
 

we did everything possible to undercut what was already a long shot 

[Happy]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

EJ likely could’ve been developed into a functional backup as a mid round pick in a good system. 
 

we did everything possible to undercut what was already a long shot 

 

Agree.  Starting him was the worst thing for EJ, even though the intention was to sit behind Kolb, which in itself wasn't a great plan.

[Phil The Thrill]

29 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

In 2013 Whaley had little choice but to take EJ Manuel.  2013 QB FAs were slim pickings which is why we landed Kevin Kolb.  Go back and look at the FAs and QB draft class that year and see if you disagree.

2012 is where Nix screwed up, could have had Alex Smith, who went to KC instead.

Sorry but I never have bought the line that this was the only move they could’ve made nor do I buy the “slim pickens” (where the hell does that phrase even come from?) excuse.   I think Whaley actually believed this excuse as well and was always like “Eh, there’s nothing we can do.  We’re in QB pergatory so we can spend money at other positions.”  That was the ultimate cop out to the fan base.

 

There were moves that could have been made at QB between trades and free agency.  We saw this in 2014 with Kyle Orton - and in years before and after.  You can always trade a low draft pick for a competent backup or sign a veteran QB off the street.   These would not be game changing moves at QB.  But certainly a better option that Kevin Kolb.

 

Whaley and Nix chose not to take them, and we’re satisfied with Kolb.  Then when Kolb was hurt rather than bringing in a veteran QB, they did NOTHING.  This was a major mistake and it showed, once again, why they were less competent GM’s than fans give them credit for.  

Edited April 18, 2020 by Phil The Thrill

[Phil The Thrill]

23 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

EJ likely could’ve been developed into a functional backup as a mid round pick in a good system. 
 

we did everything possible to undercut what was already a long shot 

I would agree but the real problem was that Nix and Whaley saw him as a franchise QB and drafted him in the middle of the first round.  
 

You draft QB’s that you can develop as functional backups in the late rounds - not the middle of Round 1.
 

They have EJ chances.  I don’t blame the team for not taking the time to groom his as a backup when he was drafted to be THE man.

 

 

[Fr. Jerk]

Yea, EJ...

 

 

 

[Rico]

3 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I would agree but the real problem was that Nix and Whaley saw him as a franchise QB and drafted him in the middle of the first round.  
 

You draft QB’s that you can develop as functional backups in the late rounds - not the middle of Round 1.
 

They have EJ chances.  I don’t blame the team for not taking the time to groom his as a backup when he was drafted to be THE man.

 

 

I think Nix gets the blame for the pick.

 

Whaley gets the blame for keeping him on the team for 4 years. GM 101: cut your losses and move forward.

 

As far as his initial development, I would say both Marrone's and Whaley's fault, but since I can't assign the lion's share, I will just go the safest route & blame Ralph.

[Happy]

24 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Sorry but I never have bought the line that this was the only move they could’ve made nor do I buy the “slim pickens” (where the hell does that phrase even come from?) excuse.   I think Whaley actually believed this excuse as well and was always like “Eh, there’s nothing we can do.  We’re in QB pergatory so we can spend money at other positions.”  That was the ultimate cop out to the fan base.

 

There were moves that could have been made at QB between trades and free agency.  We saw this in 2014 with Kyle Orton - and in years before and after.  You can always trade a low draft pick for a competent backup or sign a veteran QB off the street.   These would not be game changing moves at QB.  But certainly a better option that Kevin Kolb.

 

Whaley and Nix chose not to take them, and we’re satisfied with Kolb.  Then when Kolb was hurt rather than bringing in a veteran QB, they did NOTHING.  This was a major mistake and it showed, once again, why they were less competent GM’s than fans give them credit for.  

 

Here is the 2013 NFL FA QB list:

 

Joe Flacco
Matt Moore
Tarvaris Jackson
Jason Campbell
David Garrard
Josh Johnson
Byron Leftwich
Brady Quinn
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Rex Grossman
David Carr
Derek Anderson
Drew Stanton
Chase Daniel
Brian Hoyer
Charlie Batch
Bruce Gradkowski
Kellen Clemens
Tyler Thigpen
Josh McCown
Sage Rosenfels
Seneca Wallace
Donovan McNabb
A.J. Feeley
Troy Smith
Luke McCown
Chris Redman
John Beck
Jordan Palmer
J.P. Losman
Kevin O'Connell

 

Who on that list were we going to acquire back in 2013?  McNabb, Flacco....um, no.  Stop acting like there were any good options in 2013, because there wasn't.  As I mentioned before, 2012 is where they blew it and could have grabbed Alex Smith.

[wppete]

EJ always seemed like a good and decent guy, just didnt work out as being a franchise QB. Wish him all the luck as a commentator. 

[Mr. K]

When we made that pick I remember getting mad and thinking why are we reaching for this guy. After his time in Buffalo was over I never had any ill will towards the guy I just still ask myself "why did they reach for that guy" I know Nix needed to get that QB to get out of dodge but anyone thinking the guy was going to be a viable solution was wearing the blinders. 

 

I would agree with the sentiment that they are similar prospects when you look at the size and production in college but I think JA is the better player. At this point though JA is at the same level that Tyrod maxed out at(Productive enough to get to the playoffs, not good enough for a run). Keep ticking upwards Mr. Allen so we can forget about the Tuels, Manuels, Edwards, and Kolbs of our storied fandom.

[Phil The Thrill]

35 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Here is the 2013 NFL FA QB list:

 

Joe Flacco
Matt Moore
Tarvaris Jackson
Jason Campbell
David Garrard
Josh Johnson
Byron Leftwich
Brady Quinn
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Rex Grossman
David Carr
Derek Anderson
Drew Stanton
Chase Daniel
Brian Hoyer
Charlie Batch
Bruce Gradkowski
Kellen Clemens
Tyler Thigpen
Josh McCown
Sage Rosenfels
Seneca Wallace
Donovan McNabb
A.J. Feeley
Troy Smith
Luke McCown
Chris Redman
John Beck
Jordan Palmer
J.P. Losman
Kevin O'Connell

 

Who on that list were we going to acquire back in 2013?  McNabb, Flacco....um, no.  Stop acting like there were any good options in 2013, because there wasn't.  As I mentioned before, 2012 is where they blew it and could have grabbed Alex Smith.

Funny because several of these options are better than Kelvin Kolb.  That’s my main point there were MORE options.  Not great options, but certainly better.  You make it sound like Kolb was the only solution.

 

I see several choices that would be better:

- Matt Moore

- Brian Hoyer

- Derek Anderson

 Just to name a few...

 

Also when Kolb was hurt why wouldn’t they pick

up another QB? 

You fail to take into account trades.  You never know which QB’s could’ve been had for a 5th or 6th round pick as a temporary starter/mentor 

 

Again saying there were no better options is the ultimate cop out, because there were other moves. Whaley just chose not to make them.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Phil The Thrill

[DuckyBoys]

EJ should have never been drafted in the first round  He was a 3rd round pick at best  Yet another reach by the Bills who seemed to think they were smarter than everyone else.  By that reasoning he should have never been thrust into the starter role.  He didnt have the ability to put mistakes behind him and overcome adversity.  Once that mental weakness showed the Bills gave up on him quickly.  I remember my buddy a Seminoles fan laughing his butt off after we made that pick.  Everything he said about the kid from watching FSU games was 110% correct. That pick also set up the Sammy trade the following year where that regime doubled down on their blunders

[RochesterLifer]

43 minutes ago, wppete said:

EJ always seemed like a good and decent guy, just didnt work out as being a franchise QB. Wish him all the luck as a commentator. 

This is what made our quarterback purgatory all the more painful. E.J., Fitz and Tyrod are all good guys that I was proud to have on our team and wanted to see succeed. Not being a winning NFL QB does not make someone "mentally weak" or a bad person, just not a winning NFL QB. As a die-hard Bills fan (like everyone here), it's been painful.

 

Josh, another seemingly good guy, please break the spell. I am rooting hard for you.