Brandon Beane - Please Draft Offensive Playmakers

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

The measuring stick is indeed the Chiefs.  Who are you kidding?  And they've been competing for championships since Pat Mahomes became the starter.  They were Dee Ford lining up Offside from 2 straight Super bowl Appearances and as long as Mahomes is there with some semblance of talent on offense, they're going to be the team to beat for years to come.

 

A team with an explosive offense like the Chiefs, aids the defense because teams know they can't sit back and hope to run the clock out, having only scored 17 or 20 points.  You have to outscore KC.

 

And I said the ABILITY to score.  I never said that it was mandatory that they score 35 every week.  How awful of a plan that must be, having a top tier offense. ?

 

 

I'm kidding nobody, I'm making a point. The measuring stick is not the Chiefs. It's not any one team. Every year people install a new "measuring stick." That way is madness. That way you're always aiming at a moving target.

 

When your goal is what Beane and McDermott's is ... to be consistently competitive over the long term, you look at the small group of teams that have managed that and you use that group as your target. What you absolutely do not do is pick one team. Because the next year you'll have to go with a new team, whoever wins the Super Bowl that year. You look at the group who have gone where you want to go and been competitive for a long time.

 

The Chiefs have absolutely not been competitive for a long time. For a long time they've been good enough to make the playoffs and get knocked out by the good teams. You can make an argument that they had a shot last year. It's a reasonable contention but I disagree. Their defense just wasn't good enough, and that's why they lost every one of the four games they lost and then the Pats game.

 

Last year on the other hand, they'd greatly upgraded the D and had several games where the offense wasn't all that productive but the defense made up for it. In 2018 they had zero wins when they scored less than 26. In 2019, three wins where they scored 24 or less.

 

I'm not in any way arguing they're not a great team. They are. But the difference between the very good team of 2018 and the excellent team of 2019 was defense. And they haven't yet proved themselves consistent, though it wouldn't surprise me a tiny little bit if they do over the next few years. And when they do, they will become one of the group of teams that are the measuring stick for teams that want to be competitive not just for a year or two but consistently over the long term.

 

You say, " How awful of a plan that must be, having a top tier offense." It isn't an awful plan. But it's only half of a really good plan. The best plan is to not have a major weakness on either side of the ball. In 2018 the final score of the Super Bowl was 13 - 3. The best teams, the consistent ones, can win many types of games because both units are good. The Chiefs defense meant they weren't on the field for that game. And the year before that, Philly won with the 7th-ranked offense and the 4th-ranked defense.

 

Follow the latest winner and the target's always moving. Which is why you don't play it that way.

 

 

 

Oh, and OF COURSE you have to outscore the Chiefs. Same with every team. But you can outscore a team 47 to 45 or 10 -7. Works either way, against every team including KC. Outscoring a team is done by both sides of the ball.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Thurman#1

[ColoradoBills]

9 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

You don't need a FB at all... 

 

I have mixed opinions about the need of a FB in today's NFL.  I said IF they want to continue using one it's a good time to upgrade DiMarco.

I personally would like a big RB in the stable that can "part time" be used as a FB.

To me that's the best of both worlds.

 

9 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

The complete disregard people have around here for people like john brown and singletary, not even mentioning the top 5 receiver we just nabbed...and start threads saying we need more “playmakers” makes me laugh. The Bills will go as far as Allen can take them. He’s got the talent around him now. We’ll see. Clown threads like this make me think some of you are trying to proactively build another excuse for Allen honestly.

 

First off I have never been an excuse maker for Allen.  He needs to improve a lot this year and probably will have to continue every season.

If you read my OP you would see I acknowledged the starters but had other reasons for my opinion.

As for the "clown comment" I'll let Homie do my talking.

 

[stevewin]

21 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

Yeldon, DiMarco, Kroft, Roberts, Williams, McKenzie, Barkley, Jones and Foster are all FA's next year.  How many of them are needed/wanted for the future?

Lee Smith has 2 years left on his contract.  How many want to see him on the team in 2021?

The other JAG's Croom,  McCloud, Easley, Becker, Webb, Wade, the Professor and Mary Ann are all 50 to 1 long shots.  With exception of Mary Ann!

 

I agree with this take

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by stevewin

[HappyDays]

22 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

Singletary IMO is not a 65% snap count kind of back.

 

This has become the narrative on this board, so much so that I've gone through the offseason thinking we NEED to draft a RB high. But I'm starting to question this. Singletary was one of the bright spots on offense last year. He averaged 5.1 yards per carry which is tied for 3rd among running backs - the other one is Derrick Henry. He was more efficient than backs like McCaffrey, Barkley, and Elliott, and we had at best a mediocre run blocking line. He made more than a few clutch plays throughout the season that kept drives going. And I still believe we would have won against Houston if Daboll had run Singletary more in the 2nd half. I know we need some kind of depth at RB but why are we assuming Singletary can't carry the load?

Edited April 17, 2020 by HappyDays

[BillsVet]

10 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

The complete disregard people have around here for people like john brown and singletary, not even mentioning the top 5 receiver we just nabbed...and start threads saying we need more “playmakers” makes me laugh. The Bills will go as far as Allen can take them. He’s got the talent around him now. We’ll see. Clown threads like this make me think some of you are trying to proactively build another excuse for Allen honestly.

 

I don't think you understand what purpose the draft serves.  It's not about this upcoming season as much as it is 1-2 years into the future when guys like Brown and Beasley are nearing or at the end of their contracts.  The point is, nothing remains the same for very long.  Players age, their contracts end, the cap must be managed, and (hopefully not) injuries occur.   

 

No one is "hating" on Brown and Beasley and this is most definitely not a clown thread.  It's a solid question because Buffalo's 2nd and 3rd receivers are over 30.  In NFL years that's kind of old and why wouldn't a team plan for their replacement?  Every organization under the sun needs a plan and in the NFL if you're content with the status quo you're falling behind.  Throw in the fact that Foster, D. Williams, and McKenzie aren't the types who should be getting major minutes. 

 

The draft could go any which way, but if there's a solid WR prospect sitting there when Buffalo picks, I'd hope McBeane realize they need depth and a future starter or 2 at the position.  If KC is rolling 4 WR's in their offense, Buffalo should be looking to match them if the arms race if they expect to advance deep into the playoffs.

 

 

[HappyDays]

10 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

The complete disregard people have around here for people like john brown

 

I tend to think John Brown is a little overrated on here. The Bills have been starved for NFL quality WRs for so long that the first one we got was bound to be overrated. Nothing against Brown, he is a solid WR and unlike the trio we trotted out in 2018 he actually belongs on the field. But he is nothing special. In a really top tier WR room he would be the #3. I have come around to the idea of drafting a WR like Claypool or Pittman to give us that size element and I believe one of them would complete the WR corps.

[ColoradoBills]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This has become the narrative on this board, so much so that I've gone through the offseason thinking we NEED to draft a RB high. But I'm starting to question this. Singletary was one of the bright spots on offense last year. He averaged 5.1 yards per carry which is tied for 3rd among running backs - the other one is Derrick Henry. He was more efficient than backs like McCaffrey, Barkley, and Elliott, and we had at best a mediocre run blocking line. I know we need some kind of depth at RB but why are we assuming Singletary can't carry the load?

 

Your points on Devin are well taken.  I guess I should not of said I think he is incapable of being a true #1RB.

I guess it could be more of my personal take on the position.  I want a more rotational RB stable with each back a little specialized.

Devin definitely is a unique type of RB and I definitely am a fan of how he runs.

Wouldn't mind him teamed up with a more typical 5'10" - 5'11" type with some breakout speed and one that can get to the edge quickly.

That's my want as a RB1A and B setup.  A bigger tough between the tackles RB/FB rounds out the stable for me.

Of course you want each one to be able to catch the ball too.

 

I like the thought of having different skill sets to scheme and adjust somewhat depending on the type of defense you face each week.

I guess I always have thought that way since the Morris/Csonka/Kiick days.  NE has been pretty successful with the same theory today.

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

I want a more rotational RB stable with each back a little specialized

 

I agree, I just don't think we absolutely need to draft a RB in round 2 or 3 to fill that role. A RB at 54 has become the trendy pick but I'll be surprised if this regime takes one there. They haven't placed a high value on that position at all. Singletary is the only RB they've drafted and they gave Yeldon a 2 year deal. I'm expecting us to roll into 2020 with Singletary, Yeldon, Taiwan Jones, and a 4th round or later pick. I think at pick 54 we'll take the best core position player available - CB, DE, OL, or WR.

 

My new preferred plan would be to take Anthony McFarland in round 4. He gives us speed at the position that Singletary doesn't have.

Edited April 17, 2020 by HappyDays

[Bob in STL]

Agree that they need more talent on Offense. 

 

They need another RB to split time with Singletary - one that can run with power, plus block and catch.  I don't at all think that is Yeldon. 

 

They could use more talent at OT.

 

They could use better depth at WR (and size)

 

On defense they need more EDGE rush so DL/OLB is important - they need to get younger there.

 

You know the saying, you can never have enough good corners.

 

Now there is talk of a big SS as well.

 

That is 6 picks - Without a #1,  If 2 or 3 picks are key contributors (they don't have to start as rookies) then Beane has done well again. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Bob in STL

[Bob in STL]

54 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This has become the narrative on this board, so much so that I've gone through the offseason thinking we NEED to draft a RB high. But I'm starting to question this. Singletary was one of the bright spots on offense last year. He averaged 5.1 yards per carry which is tied for 3rd among running backs - the other one is Derrick Henry. He was more efficient than backs like McCaffrey, Barkley, and Elliott, and we had at best a mediocre run blocking line. He made more than a few clutch plays throughout the season that kept drives going. And I still believe we would have won against Houston if Daboll had run Singletary more in the 2nd half. I know we need some kind of depth at RB but why are we assuming Singletary can't carry the load?

Singletary will only get better.  They key is to stay healthy. If he goes down we have Yeldon.  i want to win the AFC East and make noise in the playoffs.  We need more than Yeldon for that. 

 

I want to draft a RB because we need depth and we need playmakers.  I think the 3rd round (maybe even 4th) is a good place to look for a solid contributor type of RB.   The very Top Tier prospects will go by the end of the 2nd or early 3rd, but there are a bunch of good options. 

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I agree, I just don't think we absolutely need to draft a RB in round 2 or 3. A RB at 54 has become the trendy pick but I'll be surprised if this regime takes one there. They haven't placed a high value on that position at all. Singletary is the only RB they've drafted and they gave Yeldon a 2 year deal. I'm expecting us to roll into 2020 with Singletary, Yeldon, Taiwan Jones, and a 4th round or later pick. I think at pick 54 we'll take the best core position player available - CB, DE, OL, or WR.

 

I don't even count Jones as a RB.  Having him and DiMarco both 32 years old taking up 2 backfield spots because of STs seems wrong.

One really should go this year.  Personally a 4th rounder is the latest and a 3rd (same as Devin) is good with me.

Agree that the 2nd round pick could be a choice of 4-5 different positions depending on Beane's board.

 

[glazeduck]

I'm having a really hard time figuring out what all the consternation is about...

Even if you remove concepts like future roster planning, or drafting for value, it's still not a hot take to suggest (even with the addition of Diggs) that we're stronger on defense than offense. So if we're aiming for roster balance (again, not exactly a hot-takey strategy), it would seem that putting our resources into improving the offense would be a reasonable call. From there, we return our entire OL nucleus, have added to that, and haven't exactly been linked to any splashy signings at the position, so that doesn't exactly seem like too likely a move. We have our franchise QB in place, so nothing to see there. That leaves us with: RB, WR, TE and special teams as the most "obvious" areas to address, by deduction -- and again, that's not even considering the makeup of our roster or positional depth in the draft. 

Certainly possible that in a week Beane opts for more defense due to value or some other reason, but speaking in purely logical terms, I'm really struggling to understand why some folks are so militantly against the idea of adding more offensive weapons. It's not like we're the greatest show on turf right now... 

Edited April 17, 2020 by glazeduck

[first_and_ten]

23 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

I want Beane to go into the draft looking for offensive playmakers with the first 3 out of 4 picks and maybe a later pick or 2.

There, I said it and feel better already.

 

Stefon Diggs was a great start but he is the only playmaker upgrade so far.  In fact he is the only starter change on O from last year.

Getting a backup RB (like many have suggested) and calling it a day is the last thing I want to see.

 

For all the "we need more on Defense" posters I understand your concerns and want to see many of the upgrades too BUT much of that has been

addressed in FA and let's all acknowledge that the D will continue to be "Way above average" this coming year.

 

Do we think Diggs is all that is needed for the Bills Offense to get "Way above Average"?

The Bills have Allen, Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Knox and Singletary as starters.  Singletary IMO is not a 65% snap count kind of back.

Knox is still a work in progress and Brown and Beasley are already into their prime age contracts.

If any of these guys are lost for any amount of time who are their replacements?

 

Yeldon, DiMarco, Kroft, Roberts, Williams, McKenzie, Barkley, Jones and Foster are all FA's next year.  How many of them are needed/wanted for the future?

Lee Smith has 2 years left on his contract.  How many want to see him on the team in 2021?

The other JAG's Croom,  McCloud, Easley, Becker, Webb, Wade, the Professor and Mary Ann are all 50 to 1 long shots.  With exception of Mary Ann!

Let's start rotating out of these above players now with rookies on 4 year cheap contracts and not wait to do it all next year!

 

With the exception of an Edge Rusher I want Beane to get playmakers to help score as many points as possible and/or establish some decent long term depth.

A consistent Punter wouldn't hurt in the 6th or 7th too.

 

Like a Kansas City East kind of deal, except with a much better defense and a lesser QB

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, glazeduck said:

I'm having a really hard time figuring out what all the consternation is about...

Even if you remove concepts like future roster planning, or drafting for value, it's still not a hot take to suggest (even with the addition of Diggs) that we're stronger on defense than offense. So if we're aiming for roster balance (again, not exactly a hot-takey strategy), it would seem that putting our resources into improving the offense would be a reasonable call. From there, we return our entire OL nucleus, have added to that, and haven't exactly been linked to any splashy signings at the position, so that doesn't exactly seem like too likely a move. We have our franchise QB in place, so nothing to see there. That leaves us with: RB, WR, TE and special teams as the most "obvious" areas to address, by deduction -- and again, that's not even considering the makeup of our roster or positional depth in the draft. 

Certainly possible that in a week Beane opts for more defense due to value or some other reason, but speaking in purely logical terms, I'm really struggling to understand why some folks are so militantly against the idea of adding more offensive weapons. It's not like we're the greatest show on turf right now... 

 

I will say that there has been a lot of agreement on the O playmaker opinion.  There are always those who have a completely different view

on any position on this board.  The one thing that really was getting to me was the RB1B or RB2 takes I have been seeing.

I just don't want to be in the same boat we were every time Shady pulled a hammy or groin.  We were stuck with these "running backs are a dime

a dozen and get them late in the draft or UDFA" guys.

 

To illustrate my point on this one part of the thread, below is all the Bills RBs/FBs since Fred Jackson left and Shady came aboard.

Pretty much all JAGs, cast offs or end of their career guys.  I just want to see better at RB.

 

Rk	Player	From	To	Draft	Tm	G	GS	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	Y/G
1	LeSean McCoy	2015	2018	2-53	BUF	57	56	885	3814	4.31	25	66.9
2	Mike Gillislee	2015	2016	5-164	BUF	20	2	148	844	5.7	11	42.2
3	Devin Singletary	2019	2019	3-74	BUF	12	8	151	775	5.13	2	64.6
4	Frank Gore	2019	2019	3-65	BUF	16	8	166	599	3.61	2	37.4
5	Karlos Williams	2015	2015	5-155	BUF	11	3	93	517	5.56	7	47
6	Chris Ivory	2018	2018		BUF	13	1	115	385	3.35	1	29.6
7	Marcus Murphy	2017	2018	7-230	BUF	12	1	59	291	4.93	0	24.3
8	Mike Tolbert	2017	2017		BUF	12	0	66	247	3.74	1	20.6
9	Jonathan Williams	2016	2016	5-156	BUF	11	0	27	94	3.48	1	8.5
10	Travaris Cadet	2017	2017		BUF	6	0	22	93	4.23	0	15.5
11	Keith Ford	2018	2018		BUF	2	1	21	79	3.76	0	39.5
12	T.J. Yeldon	2019	2019	2-36	BUF	6	0	17	63	3.71	0	10.5
13	Anthony Dixon	2015	2015	6-173	BUF	16	1	21	44	2.1	1	2.8
14	Dan Herron	2015	2015	6-191	BUF	4	0	11	37	3.36	0	9.3
15	Jerome Felton	2015	2016	5-146	BUF	31	12	9	15	1.67	0	0.5
16	Patrick DiMarco	2017	2019		BUF	48	18	6	14	2.33	0	0.3
17	Senorise Perry	2019	2019		BUF	11	0	3	3	1	0	0.3
18	Cierre Wood	2015	2015		BUF	2	0	2	3	1.5	0	1.5
19	Joe Banyard	2017	2017		BUF	3	0	0	0		0	0
20	Glenn Gronkowski	2016	2016		BUF	1	0	0	0		0	0
21	Taiwan Jones	2017	2018	4-125	BUF	14	0	0	0		0	0

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MasterStrategist]

Unlike in years past, we have starters slotted into every position on this roster heading into the draft.  Not to say that some can't be upgraded, but provides a lot of flexibility to truly go with BPA.

 

That said, we were very fortunate last season with injuries and having depth is a necessity, if we want to develop into a championship team (especially without an elite qb, as Allen continues to develop)...Imo, we run into the biggest drop-off in play if these starters were injured:

 

1. RB: Yeldon, Jones, Wade and DiMarco provide much to be desired.  Absolutely no starters in this group, and a bunch of #3 rb types.  Top pick or 3rd rounder, absolutely needs to be a playmaker to split time with Motor

 

2. Corner: Taron Johnson hasn't proven to stay healthy, and Levi has missed games in the past.  With Norman and Gaines, you hope one of these veterans can stay healthy, along with of course Tre who has been durable.  Upgrade at CB2, or flexibility to shift down or compete at nickel, along with providing depth is a big get.

 

3. Linebacker: Klein was a great pickup, but he isn't the mold of a Milano or Edmunds.  Unless they like what they see from Dodson or Joseph, I see a pick in the 4th-6th round range (speed type, ie milano)

 

4. Safety: behind Poyer and Hyde, Marlowe is a solid contributor who was a "jack of all trades" last year, but not the type you want to roll out for numerous games.   If not this year, I see us drafting a 3rd round caliber player, who can play in the big nickle role (like Marlowe or Neal) and eventually replace as a starting safety.

 

Other upgrade options:

1. Def end: I see argument to get younger, but we already have a 2a and 2b in hughes/Addison, not elite guys but real solid.  Murphy is average, a good guy for a #3 end but paid too high, Johnson is young and might be a fringe player, and Jefferson will be a solid option, if he's not bumped inside (which i think they will do on obvious pass situations).  Unless they see a future #1 or #2, in rounds 2-4, I just don't see why they'd take one this year....more likely a big target next season

 

2. Oline:deepest position on this team.  Nsheke, Williams, Long, and Boehm are all very good backup types.  Starters: Dawkins likely to get a long term deal, Spain just got his, Morse stays healthy then he's here longterm, and they just drafted Ford in rd 2 last year....Feliciano played solid too, so i.just don't see them doing anything but letting this group "gel"

 

3. TE: Knox will be a very good TE, if he can stay healthy.  Kroft is a great 2a option, if he can stay healthy.  Then you have Sweeney, Smith, and Croom as competition.  Unless they are transforming the offense into a 2 TE offense, I don't see a need to.go after this group...plus just drafted 2 last year, Kroft restructured, and draft class is NOT deep

 

4. WR: Diggs, Brown, Beasley is the best trio we've had in a long while.  I think Duke Williams, Mckenzie and Foster each bring a different skill set, along with Roberts.  I could see a late round flier, but no draft pick is taking a top 3 slot, let alone seeing many targets unless two of our top guys go down.  

 

My prediction:

Round 2: corner

Round 3: running back

Round 4: safety

Round 5-7: linebacker, wr and punter

 

[Bookie Man]

OL and RB have my vote. Draft day is always a good time with Beane calling shots.

[LSHMEAB]

We've seen what happens when your receiving core is trash, but what is really going on? 

 

We "drafted" a STUD WR with our first pick. Brown and Beasley form an extremely solid 2/3. They're getting up there, so it would be a plus if they added a young player later on in the draft. You really want to draft WR with our first AND second picks? I just don't get it.

 

It wasn't that long ago that the prevailing wisdom among fellow Bills fans that the QB and OL position were the units that made an offense tick. Now, it's all receiver, all the time.

 

The truth is somewhere in the middle. At any rate, the NEED right now is at EDGE and an infusion of talent on the offensive line. I hope BPA lines up with our actual needs. 

[Da webster guy]

On 4/16/2020 at 7:57 PM, maryland-bills-fan said:

how is Singletary at top 12 back?

 

Elite yards per carry.  Same as Derrick Henry last year at 5.1, tied for 2nd best in the league.    Has good hands, vision, knack for knowing where the 1st down markers are too.  

[Chicken Boo]

21 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Oh, and OF COURSE you have to outscore the Chiefs. Same with every team. But you can outscore a team 47 to 45 or 10 -7. Works either way, against every team including KC. Outscoring a team is done by both sides of the ball.

 

 

 

But Buffalo already has a stout defense and have added key pieces to it this offseason.  That's not to say, they should pass on a defensive talent in the draft for the sole purpose of upgrading the offense, but the offense is the weak link here.  I expect it will always be the challenge of this regime - as long as McDermott and Frazier are here, as I don't expect the defense to fall too far with those two in charge of it.

 

My point is, the defense is Super Bowl ready.  The offense is not.

[Thurman#1]

41 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

But Buffalo already has a stout defense and have added key pieces to it this offseason.  That's not to say, they should pass on a defensive talent in the draft for the sole purpose of upgrading the offense, but the offense is the weak link here.  I expect it will always be the challenge of this regime - as long as McDermott and Frazier are here, as I don't expect the defense to fall too far with those two in charge of it.

 

My point is, the defense is Super Bowl ready.  The offense is not.

 

 

OK, we're not so far apart then.

 

Enjoy the draft and the season.