Tre White - Best in the League?

[Buffalo716]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Seattle had better talent up front than us - that is true - but they were, if anything even more vanilla. Seattle were actually 8th in sacks their Superbowl year, not 11th. They had 44 sacks. The Bills in 2019 were 12th is sacks with.... well what do you know... 44 sacks. 

 

You prefer your defense to be built from front to back. I understand that and I get it. But you need to give up on the argument that you can't win with a defense built back to front. Belichick has done it numerous times and pays DBs while he lets pass rushers walk, and Seattle build the most dominant defense of the last decade that way too. That is without Carolina and Atlanta who made Superbowls running similar schemes. You can win the other way... Denver were a defense led by their front, so were Philadelphia (even if their D didn't show up so much in the Superbowl itself) and so going back a little further were Harbaugh's Ravens. It can be done either way - the evidence is pretty clear on that. 

 

Great minds... and that was with Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett up front. They had more talent than the Bills front currently as but they were pretty vanilla scheme wise.

 

As @Buffalo716 has already mentioned in this thread while the Bills are certainly more complex on the backend they are not a totally vanilla front. 

 

I would 100% like to see the Bills rush improve - especially from the edge.... but you can win with a defense that is built on a top notch secondary and a slightly above average line. There is loads of evidence to support that.  

Sean needs his defensive line to be cohesive. To play Gap integrity football and then finally get after the quarterback in the right situation

 

Lots of dudes can rack off 15 Sacks well not playing within their scheme and actually hurting the defense

 

Sean would rather have a few dudes get 7 to 10 the right way. Terrell suggs did it the right way. Monster run-stuffer on the first two downs and only cared about getting his on 3rd

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

He also had over 1200 yards rushing, averaging about 7 y/c and about 80 y/g.  Better than some RBs

Yeah...I know.  

So you’re saying him leading the NFL in passing TD’s and being in the top in several other passing categories didn’t mean much?

[Happy]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Yeah...I know.  

So you’re saying him leading the NFL in passing TD’s and being in the top in several other passing categories didn’t mean much?

 

Huh?  Where do you come up with this stuff?

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Huh?  Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Sean needs his defensive line to be cohesive. To play Gap integrity football and then finally get after the quarterback in the right situation

 

Lots of dudes can rack off 15 Sacks well not playing within their scheme and actually hurting the defense

 

Sean would rather have a few dudes get 7 to 10 the right way. Terrell suggs did it the right way. Monster run-stuffer on the first two downs and only cared about getting his on 3rd

Yes that's why we were never re-signing Phillips, and I said as much right during midseason when he was racking up sacks...not a scheme guy, just a byproduct

[Happy]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

 

He averaged about 200 y/g passing, you think that is astronomical?  Dude got 1200+ yards rushing, better than most RBs, and threw more toward the end zone while rushing more in mid field.  You really think he would have been MVP without his rushing?  That is what people want to see, it's entertaining...like a circus, only without the smell.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

He averaged about 200 y/g passing, you think that is astronomical?  Dude got 1200+ yards rushing, better than most RBs, and threw more toward the end zone while rushing more in mid field.  You really think he would have been MVP without his rushing?  That is what people want to see, it's entertaining...like a circus, only without the smell.

4th in the league in ANY/A

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

He averaged about 200 y/g passing, you think that is astronomical?  Dude got 1200+ yards rushing, better than most RBs, and threw more toward the end zone while rushing more in mid field.  You really think he would have been MVP without his rushing?  That is what people want to see, it's entertaining...like a circus, only without the smell.

 

When did ever say he didn't win it without his rushing?  I was just commenting on your statement that he won the MVP with his running abilities.

I think he won because of his total work at QB.  You're the one who made the definitive statement that he won the MVP one way....not me.

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

4th in the league in ANY/A

 

Yeah but passing yards.  

[T master]

Every Superman has their Kryptonite & Tre will have good & bad games but it's about that players ego what they think of themselves & their game ! Tre definitely knows he's a good player but doesn't get the accolades (because he's with the Bills) that he deserves which serves him well to be motivated to be better each year .

 

That being said he's shooting for the top of list when it comes to a pay check & even though he may not become the king of that mountain it won't be because he's not trying to make it there .

 

If Beane doesn't give him the type of numbers Tre feels he's worth you will see him do like every other player in his position wait to hit FA & then he will get top dog money which let's face it when it comes to loyalty the only "Loyalty" any of these players have is to the all mighty dollar greed is the biggest motivating factor in all that they do !! 

 

And as they are walking out the door in their statements they will say how much they appreciate the team they are leaving for giving them the chance to play for such a great organization & how they will always cherish their time they had with that team while they back up the truck to unload all there bags of cash ...

[K-9]

On 4/17/2020 at 5:19 PM, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Gilmore was used in Rex's defense, which was pretty much a disaster all around.  Most of us can agree on that.  IIRC, Gilmore was used more in zone and he's a better man on man, which is how NE uses him.  I thought he was pretty good, though was a bit surprised Belichick paid him that much.  That usually doesn't happen in NE.

 

I think our defense does a good job in coverage, even Belichick mentioned as much.  I wish we would a better job at rushing the passer, though maybe the change at d-line coordinator had something to do with that.

 

Trust who you feel comfortable trusting.  Makes no difference to me.  You have to do more than just cover, though.  You won't beat Mahomes that way and you wouldn't have beat Brady or Peyton Manning that way, either.  They'd carve you up.

Per the bold and just as a matter of clarification, Ryan’s defenses have always been predicated on man coverage at the corners. That was no different here as Gilmore and Darby were in man coverage nearly all the time. And coming out of college, Gillmore was known as a man corner. You may recall his rookie year when, after struggling the first half dozen games or so, the decision was made to let him shadow the opponents’ top WR threat and his game took off when he was allowed to match up and play man to man coverage. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by K-9

[Happy]

29 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Per the bold and just as a matter of clarification, Ryan’s defenses have always been predicated on man coverage at the corners. That was no different here as Gilmore and Darby were in man coverage nearly all the time. And coming out of college, Gillmore was known as a man corner. You may recall his rookie year when, after struggling the first half dozen games or so, the decision was made to let him shadow the opponents’ top WR threat and his game took off when he was allowed to match up and play man to man coverage. 

 

If so, why did Gilmore seem to struggle here?  He wasn't as good here as he is in NE; you concur?  Also, why did Gilmore point his finger at the safety (I forget who it was) when a coverage was blown?  That tells me they were in zone and Gilmore and the corner did not communicate when handing off the assignment.

[NewEra]

While he may not be the best corner in the league, there isn’t a corner I’d rather have than Tre

[K-9]

13 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

If so, why did Gilmore seem to struggle here?  He wasn't as good here as he is in NE; you concur?  Also, why did Gilmore point his finger at the safety (I forget who it was) when a coverage was blown?  That tells me they were in zone and Gilmore and the corner did not communicate when handing off the assignment.

Look, I’m not gonna get into a protracted debate about how Gilmore was or wasn’t used in Buffalo. The fact remains he has always been recognized as an outstanding man to man corner since coming out. And under Ryan, whose schemes are based on man coverage on the boundaries as I said previously, he and Darby played man coverage the vast majority of the time in Buffalo. Belichick didn’t discover any hidden man to man prowess when he got to NE***; it’s always been known. 

 

And as to the specific play you mention, when Hogan beat him and he did his finger pointing, I believe Gilmore was playing a man under coverage scheme and the safety was late. There were other times when Ryan used zone looks as well. But those few plays don’t negate the fact that he played man coverage the vast majority of the time. A few plays here and there don’t indicate zone schemes as being more favorable to Ryan. His defenses have always been about pressure and sending extra rushers to generate it and, once again, that’s made possible with two man to man CBs on the boundaries. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

The most that I would pay White would be 5years 70 mil 38 guaranteed. If that cannot happen I would trade him for a 1st and 2nd rd pick.