Tre White - Best in the League?

[Happy]

43 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

 Ahhh....the 2018 Kansas City Chiefs model.  Get after the QB in which they lead the league in sacks that year with 52 but since they didn't have the talent in the secondary....they had 2nd worst pass defense.  So much so is that they made their secondary a focus in the offseason....then had a very good defense.

 

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article237864574.html

On a defense in need of an offseason shakeup, the secondary encountered the most significant makeover, with three newcomers in the five most prominent spots. But even as the description of last year’s underwhelming unit has shadowed their every move, the personnel overhaul prompted a production overhaul.

 

The thing is, you're basically saying Tre is an average corner.  "Good" in zone but "susceptible" in man.  With a weakness that glaring, he would have been attacked a lot more and wouldn't have given up ZERO TD's.  But somehow NFL Offensive coordinators couldn't figure out how to exploit it?

 

Or the 2019 49ers model.  Wasn't the 2018 Chiefs D susceptible to the run?

 

I think he's an above average corner, in general.  I do think he is susceptible in man-to-man, especially in space, which is what the stats seem to be pointing out.  We do need to put more pressure on the QB which would help any DB on the field.  It is my belief that you can't cover to victory because the rules favor the offense and they will get the benefit of the doubt.

[John from Riverside]

Top 3

[DCOrange]

8 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

We should be extending White this offseason to get his cap hits down in 2022 and beyond.

 

5 years, $80 mil seems like it should do it. 

In all likelihood, Tre won't agree to an extension this offseason. He shouldn't be in any rush, and as other corners sign, the price tag will only go up higher. I imagine it'll be in the $90-100 million range when it's all said and done (unless he goes for something shorter like 4 years and $75-80 million).

[Koko78]

You have to pay the man. He's a great CB, and no one wants him to close the Tre White Goalie Academy of Louisiana at Buffalo.

[jrober38]

Just now, DCOrange said:

In all likelihood, Tre won't agree to an extension this offseason. He shouldn't be in any rush, and as other corners sign, the price tag will only go up higher. I imagine it'll be in the $90-100 million range when it's all said and done (unless he goes for something shorter like 4 years and $75-80 million).

 

Why not?

 

What if he blows his knee out?

 

Zeke Elliott held out all last summer (after his 3rd year) because he wanted an extension.

 

The risk/reward of getting a couple mil extra or suffering a major injury that drastically reduces his earning potential seems like a no brainer for both sides. 

[DCOrange]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Why not?

 

What if he blows his knee out?

 

Zeke Elliott held out all last summer (after his 3rd year) because he wanted an extension.

 

The risk/reward of getting a couple mil extra or suffering a major injury that drastically reduces his earning potential seems like a no brainer for both sides. 

Because he still has 2 years left on his deal anyways, and again, with each major corner that signs a contract, his price goes up. 5/$80 won't get it done anymore because Byron Jones already exceeded that and Tre is better + inflation.

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

Because he still has 2 years left on his deal anyways, and again, with each major corner that signs a contract, his price goes up. 5/$80 won't get it done anymore because Byron Jones already exceeded that and Tre is better + inflation.

 

Then give him 5 years $85 mil.

The point is we should be extending him now. Lock up our best player and send a positive message to the locker room that if you perform you'll get taken care of. 

Start negotiating is what I'm saying. 

[GreggTX]

I don't think he's in the top 2 or 3, but he's very good and I hope he will sign for a fair price.

[thurst44]

54 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

85 for 5 years and I’m drafting a CB. He is a very good zone CB, there are a lot of very good CB’s in the NFL. Our HC and DC specialize in coaching DB talent, taking solid CB and making them good ones.  I have never seen White listed as a top 10 CB in any of the lists that I have looked at. I also think the defense that we run and having two very good safeties helps White out a lot. 

Not sure what lists you are looking at. Other than PFF, he's pretty universally near the top of every top 10 list. He was All-Pro, so that puts him in the Top 2 according to AP, PWFA, and SN

 

Here's the first non-PFF lists I could find:

https://www.ranker.com/list/best-cornerbacks-in-nfl-right-now/ranker-nfl

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfls-top-10-cornerbacks-2019-203303503.html

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2019/06/04/the-nfls-11-best-outside-cornerbacks/9/

 

He was 4th in passes defensed, 2nd in passer rating against, 1st in TDs allowed, 1st in Interceptions. 

 

I'm going to say that your lists of "top 10 CB" is not overly scientific.

[Mickey]

Does make me wonder. Nate Clements was one of the best in the league and we let him go. Ditto with Antoine Winfield. Now maybe my memory is off and they weren't quite that good but either way, there was no fan uproar about it at all. They both got big bucks when they left, especially Clements. Why wouldn't the same thing happen with Tre? Different owners, different GMs? Hope so.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

….have to laugh when remembering some folks here wanted to use him as trade bait for 2018 draft....um...er….ok...………...

[BigBillsFan]

May I ask the question is IF CBs are worth that kind of money to a team? Is there any evidence the best CB helps a team win that much? A thanks to any poster who might know.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Or the 2019 49ers model.  Wasn't the 2018 Chiefs D susceptible to the run?

 

I think he's an above average corner, in general.  I do think he is susceptible in man-to-man, especially in space, which is what the stats seem to be pointing out.  We do need to put more pressure on the QB which would help any DB on the field.  It is my belief that you can't cover to victory because the rules favor the offense and they will get the benefit of the doubt.

 

Yes they were but they were also the 2nd worse pass defense in the league even though they lead the league in sacks.  

Why was that?  Why did they focus on the secondary in the offseason and not the run defense?  This past year they were 26th against the run but 8th against the pass.

I guess the 49ers model works and the Chiefs doesn't.

 

Yes putting pressure on the QB helps a DB just like not having WR running wide open helps the pass rush....especially if you have QB's that get the ball out quick.

 

Stephon Gilmore won the NFL defensive player of the year and he does get burned because you can't completely shut everyone down 100% of the time.

 

I just think it's pretty wild how a corner who didn't give up a single passing TD wasn't good enough for you.  I'm not making the argument he's the absolute best in the league but to say he's "above average", like at the same level as like an Adoree Jackson....it's really strange.  

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Mickey said:

Does make me wonder. Nate Clements was one of the best in the league and we let him go. Ditto with Antoine Winfield. Now maybe my memory is off and they weren't quite that good but either way, there was no fan uproar about it at all. They both got big bucks when they left, especially Clements. Why wouldn't the same thing happen with Tre? Different owners, different GMs? Hope so.

 

Winfield wasn't coming back.  I watched his post lockerroom interview after his last game as a Bill.

He was straight up asked "Do you want to come back to Buffalo?"  He smiled and said "we'll see".  I knew there wasn't any hope.

 

Clements I believe became the highest paid NFL defensive player of all time.  He was good but not that good and then was demoted to nickel corner about a year or two later.

 

Pegula and Beane will pay.  

[BillsVet]

 

1 hour ago, Mickey said:

Does make me wonder. Nate Clements was one of the best in the league and we let him go. Ditto with Antoine Winfield. Now maybe my memory is off and they weren't quite that good but either way, there was no fan uproar about it at all. They both got big bucks when they left, especially Clements. Why wouldn't the same thing happen with Tre? Different owners, different GMs? Hope so.

 

Interesting to see how the board views White if contract negotiations are difficult.  That's a huge if at this point, but the board turned against Clements when he wanted a big contract.  Difference is now that Buffalo has the Pegula dollars and isn't constrained by the Ralph/Littman penny-pinching.

 

Second, how would the Bills locker room view not signing someone like White? He's the first marquee player to be up for contract extension (apologies to Dawkins and Milano - they're not All-Pro caliber) and Buffalo has spent heavily on UFAs.  If he's not signed, it sends a message that McBeane's process talk is just that and they'll reward outside guys as opposed to home-grown.

 

There's a lot we still don't know about McBeane and their approach to negotiating contracts.  Many of the UFA deals are ones they can get out of after 1-2 seasons, but a Tre White deal likely is a 4-5 year extension.   I would think he'a  cornerstone player despite playing in a system where he gets help.  

 

 

[thebandit27]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The "Tre sometimes gets beaten in man" crowd are right. Sometimes he does. But not very often. The only 4 NFL receivers I have genuinely seen come out of a 1:1 battle with Tre White ahead are DeAndre Hopkins, AJ Green, Kenny Golladay and Robby Anderson. Two of those likely get HoF consideration at the end of their careers and Golladay and Anderson are fine players in their own right.

 

I don't think Tre is Josh Norman. The Bills leave him 1:1 plenty and it his ability to survive in those defensive calls that allows them to bring a safety up into the box so often and play a softer zone look on the other side of the field. I think Tre could go to a team that plays more man and still be a top 5 NFL corner.

The only corners that don’t get beat are the ones on the bench.

 

Example numero uno: the near-unanimous answer to “who’s the best” would be Gilmore. He got “smoked” by our boy for a huge TD on National TV.

 

Corners get beat. All of them.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

The only corners that don’t get beat are the ones on the bench.

 

Example numero uno: the near-unanimous answer to “who’s the best” would be Gilmore. He got “smoked” by our boy for a huge TD on National TV.

 

Corners get beat. All of them.

 

Tre has been in the league 3 years. He has played all but the Jets week 17 game. I make that 47 regular season starts. And two playoff games. 49 NFL games. If he has only come off on the wrong end of a matchup 4 or 5 times in 49 I think that squarely puts him in the elite category. 

[HappyDays]

The average passer rating on targets in his direction was 45.0 last year. For point of reference Nate Peterman had a passer rating of 45.3 in our game against the Bears in 2018. Yes White is a top 3 corner in the league and we will make him the highest paid corner without blinking an eye.

[K-9]

People accusing Tre of being a one dimensional CB really need to go rewatch last season. He has a less than great half against a HOF wideout with an all star QB pitching to him and all of a sudden he can’t play man to man? Really?

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

People accusing Tre of being a one dimensional CB really need to go rewatch last season. He has a less than great half against a HOF wideout with an all star QB pitching to him and all of a sudden he can’t play man to man? Really?

That less-than-great half included stripping that same HOF wideout for a turnover that lead to 3 points.

 

People are weird.

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

The average passer rating on targets in his direction was 45.0 last year. For point of reference Nate Peterman had a passer rating of 45.3 in our game against the Bears in 2018. Yes White is a top 3 corner in the league and we will make him the highest paid corner without blinking an eye.

Want to hear something gross? NE had 5 DBs that ranked the top 16 of all NFL defensive players in passer rating allowed.