Doc Posted April 19, 2020 Posted April 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said: The hole in the present roster is that we need another running back. At 54, we can get a running back who will probably be an upgrade from Singletary. How is that a bad idea? There are other needs. And other ways to fill that spot.
Mat68 Posted April 19, 2020 Posted April 19, 2020 I think many will have him as their top backs. Usually 2 to 3 backs are drafted by 54. If 2 or 3 are drafted its a high probability Taylor is one of those draft. If he is available its a no brainer. I like Buffalos position in the draft. Getting Diggs for 22 puts them in a great spot to get a first rd rated talent at 54 also. 1
Mr. WEO Posted April 19, 2020 Posted April 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Doc said: You can also fumble after a reception. And do we have stats on Taylor's drop rate? No, fumbles won't be the sole reason they don't take Taylor, but it will factor heavily in their decision. Despite the "much is made about RBs and fumbles," coaches absolutely hate it when players fumble. Singletary didn't have a history of it in college and they no doubt told him to work on it after last season. If he had a problem and they took him, you might have an argument that they don't care. Teams will overlook Taylor's fumbles because of his his production. But the reality is that Wisconsin RBs look like studs in college and rarely become studs in the pros. And Taylor struggled against good defenses. Teams are going RB by committee so they won't be looking to add a workhorse anyway. Taylor might end up being a stud. I just don't see spending 54, much less moving up, for him. Could have led with that a dozen posts ago.
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 19, 2020 Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Doc said: There are other needs. And other ways to fill that spot. Yep. Fill it with a third round pick like the 85th best player for this year. Or go after a free agent running back who nobody else has selected yet. KC is somebody we may meet next year. Maybe a third of the mock drafts have them taking a top or top two running backs with their 1st pick round. We are going to play them with a two third round picks, (or maybe a 3rd and a 4th?). When you have a chance to improve on a good or okay starter, you do it. You don't go shopping for a later round JAG. Maybe Buffalo has been down for so many years, so that low expectations are a tradition? If you can improve a position to be better than your opponents, you do it. 2 hours ago, Mat68 said: I think many will have him as their top backs. Usually 2 to 3 backs are drafted by 54. If 2 or 3 are drafted its a high probability Taylor is one of those draft. If he is available its a no brainer. I like Buffalos position in the draft. Getting Diggs for 22 puts them in a great spot to get a first rd rated talent at 54 also. Most of the time in mock drafts, I see Swift going to the fish and a second RB also going in the first. I don't think Taylor will be available with out pick. Tampa, Pittsburg, the Ravens and several other teams might also take running backs. I don't see Taylor lasting until our pick or where we can pick. Therefore I do not want to draft Taylor with our #54 pick. I also am giving up sleeping with supermodels. Edited April 19, 2020 by maryland-bills-fan
JoeF Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) On 4/18/2020 at 10:04 AM, Mr. WEO said: Singletary's fumble rate last season was twice what Taylor's career rate was in college. Singletary didn't fumble in college in 714 carries according the cited article below. The pro game is harder. Every indication was Singletary was special when it came to ball security and he had issues in NFL. A player like Taylor who has issues already is likely to be a bigger problem. https://dawindycity.com/2019/02/18/chicago-bears-nfl-draft-devin-singletary/2/ Not only is he a big play waiting to happen, but he’s also an incredibly reliable and productive back. In three years at FAU, he ran for 4,287 yards (6.0 average) and rushed for 66 touchdowns. Despite carrying the ball 714 times, he did not fumble the ball once, an amazing statistic. Despite checking in at 5-foot-9 and weighing 200 pounds, he’s also incredibly difficult to bring down, maintaining magnificent balance through contact, as evidenced on this play. Edited April 20, 2020 by JoeF 1
Mr. WEO Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 2 hours ago, JoeF said: Singletary didn't fumble in college in 714 carries according the cited article below. The pro game is harder. Every indication was Singletary was special when it came to ball security and he had issues in NFL. A player like Taylor who has issues already is likely to be a bigger problem. https://dawindycity.com/2019/02/18/chicago-bears-nfl-draft-devin-singletary/2/ Not only is he a big play waiting to happen, but he’s also an incredibly reliable and productive back. In three years at FAU, he ran for 4,287 yards (6.0 average) and rushed for 66 touchdowns. Despite carrying the ball 714 times, he did not fumble the ball once, an amazing statistic. Despite checking in at 5-foot-9 and weighing 200 pounds, he’s also incredibly difficult to bring down, maintaining magnificent balance through contact, as evidenced on this play. Yeah, well.....this ain't the CUSA. Singletary might be a special player. But they don't feel they can use him much. In 12 games average of 12.5 carries. He would be the change of pace back. They need someone else who, if needed, can carry the ball 25 times. The best RBs in the league were also the greatest fumblers. I really don't think that's what they are focusing on.
JoeF Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Yeah, well.....this ain't the CUSA. Singletary might be a special player. But they don't feel they can use him much. In 12 games average of 12.5 carries. He would be the change of pace back. They need someone else who, if needed, can carry the ball 25 times. The best RBs in the league were also the greatest fumblers. I really don't think that's what they are focusing on. Barry Sanders fumbled less than once every 150 carries http://www.nfl.com/player/barrysanders/2502817/careerstats Emmitt Smith fumbled less than once every 115 carries http://www.nfl.com/player/barrysanders/2502817/careerstats Jonathan Taylor fumbled once every 52 carries in college. At least back up your arguments with facts instead of conjecture. 1
Doc Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 19 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Could have led with that a dozen posts ago. And you could have not even bothered bring-up Singletary's fumbles considering a) he didn't fumble much in college and the Bills couldn't predict his pro future and b) you said that fumbling is meaningless anyway. And then you admitted that if you doubled Singletary's stats it would have been fine, therefore what he did was fine. Again, beyond the fumbling, which is more likely to stay the same if not get worse than magically get better in the pros, Taylor's got other concerns, which I listed. Let someone else overlook them and take a chance. The Bills don't need to draft a workhorse, assuming Taylor is even one. He has yet to play a down in the NFL.
CapeBreton Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 If they go RB in round 2, I think they target Dobbins, Bills have been in contact with him. Haven’t seen any reports about them talking to Taylor.
Mr. WEO Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, JoeF said: Barry Sanders fumbled less than once every 150 carries http://www.nfl.com/player/barrysanders/2502817/careerstats Emmitt Smith fumbled less than once every 115 carries http://www.nfl.com/player/barrysanders/2502817/careerstats Jonathan Taylor fumbled once every 52 carries in college. At least back up your arguments with facts instead of conjecture. Already posted upstream: 5 of the 6 RBs with the most fumbles in history are in the HOF. Dorsett (every 33 carries), Harris (every 33 carries), Payton (every 45 carries), Dickerson (every 38 carries), Allen (every 46 carries). From pro-football-reference (nfl.com is obviously missing some data): Sanders: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SandBa00.htm even if you add carries and catches, it's every 83 touches, not 150 Smith: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitEm00.htm even if you add carries and catches, it's every 80 touches, not 115. Although it's safe to assume that for all RBs, the vast majority of their fumbles are with carries, not catches. 3 hours ago, Doc said: And you could have not even bothered bring-up Singletary's fumbles considering a) he didn't fumble much in college and the Bills couldn't predict his pro future and b) you said that fumbling is meaningless anyway. And then you admitted that if you doubled Singletary's stats it would have been fine, therefore what he did was fine. Again, beyond the fumbling, which is more likely to stay the same if not get worse than magically get better in the pros, Taylor's got other concerns, which I listed. Let someone else overlook them and take a chance. The Bills don't need to draft a workhorse, assuming Taylor is even one. He has yet to play a down in the NFL. Except he didn't. Yeah I guess if Singletary was a back who could handle 300 carries and kept up 5 per and had 8 fumbles...we could all be happy with that. But he doesn't seem to be that kind of back. Edited April 20, 2020 by Mr. WEO 1
JoeF Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Already posted upstream: 5 of the 6 RBs with the most fumbles in history are in the HOF. Dorsett (every 33 carries), Harris (every 33 carries), Payton (every 45 carries), Dickerson (every 38 carries), Allen (every 46 carries). From pro-football-reference (nfl.com is obviously missing some data): Sanders: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SandBa00.htm even if you add carries and catches, it's every 83 touches, not 150 Smith: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitEm00.htm even if you add carries and catches, it's every 80 touches, not 115. Although it's safe to assume that for all RBs, the vast majority of their fumbles are with carries, not catches. Except he didn't. Yeah I guess if Singletary was a back who could handle 300 carries and kept up 5 per and had 8 fumbles...we could all be happy with that. But he doesn't seem to be that kind of back. NFL.com is the official statistic not Profootball reference. Give it a rest. I'll buy you a beer if we are ever at the same place at the same time if they draft Taylor. There is no need to reciprocate if they don't.
Mr. WEO Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 Just now, JoeF said: NFL.com is the official statistic not Profootball reference. Give it a rest. I'll buy you a beer if we are ever at the same place at the same time if they draft Taylor. There is no need to reciprocate if they don't. How many fumbles are listed for Sanders in his first 2 seasons on that site? Did you even look at it before you copied and pasted? Here's another: https://www.profootballhof.com/players/barry-sanders/stats/
Doc Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: Except he didn't. Yeah I guess if Singletary was a back who could handle 300 carries and kept up 5 per and had 8 fumbles...we could all be happy with that. But he doesn't seem to be that kind of back. Singletary had 261 carries his senior year in college, in 12 games. And if the Bills were to draft Taylor, he would be splitting carries. They're not looking for a workhorse RB.
Mr. WEO Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Doc said: Singletary had 261 carries his senior year in college, in 12 games. And if the Bills were to draft Taylor, he would be splitting carries. They're not looking for a workhorse RB. They will have to find someone. If Singletary is again injured, the next guy can't be a dozen a game RB. 1
YoloinOhio Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, CapeBreton said: If they go RB in round 2, I think they target Dobbins, Bills have been in contact with him. Haven’t seen any reports about them talking to Taylor. They did see him play at Ohio state this year. They had a credentialed scout there. He wasn’t good. Edited April 20, 2020 by YoloinOhio 1
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) On 4/19/2020 at 2:44 PM, Doc said: There are other needs. And other ways to fill that spot. Other needs that will help the team more? A 3rd string CB, or 3rd string safety or a rookie defensive end? Name the starting player that they have a good chance to put on the bench? Figure out who is going to get more touches with the football in their hands. 20 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: They did see him play at Ohio state this year. They had a credentialed scout there. He wasn’t good. https://nfldraftrite.com/2020/03/05/j-k-dobbins-running-back-ohio-state-buckeyes/ Don't worry. It is only, at best, a 50 50 shot he will be around at #54. The rest of the league is not as smart as the people posting here. Edited April 20, 2020 by maryland-bills-fan 1
YoloinOhio Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 26 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said: Other needs that will help the team more? A 3rd string CB, or 3rd string safety or a rookie defensive end? Name the starting player that they have a good chance to put on the bench? Figure out who is going to get more touches with the football in their hands. https://nfldraftrite.com/2020/03/05/j-k-dobbins-running-back-ohio-state-buckeyes/ Don't worry. It is only, at best, a 50 50 shot he will be around at #54. The rest of the league is not as smart as the people posting here. You want Dobbins?
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 20, 2020 Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Doc said: Singletary had 261 carries his senior year in college, in 12 games. And if the Bills were to draft Taylor, he would be splitting carries. They're not looking for a workhorse RB. OK. How do you know they are not looking for a workhorse RB. Has Beane told you this? Is if from God's mouth to your ear? 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: You want Dobbins? He is one of the top 4 running backs accord to most draft sites. He is a good receiver, which is something we lacked. Yes, he would do and be our RB 1A. Edited April 20, 2020 by maryland-bills-fan
Doc Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, maryland-bills-fan said: OK. How do you know they are not looking for a workhorse RB. Has Beane told you this? Is if from God's mouth to your ear? They have a guy who can carry half the load and averaged 5.1 YPC. And a RB to split carries won't necessitate a high pick. Who told you they are?
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 10 hours ago, Doc said: They have a guy who can carry half the load and averaged 5.1 YPC. And a RB to split carries won't necessitate a high pick. Who told you they are? Silly me. Here I thought that teams drafted better players sooner than no so good players. Glad that you decided to correct me on that.
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