and the Layoffs begin @ Pegula Sports

[plenzmd1]

6 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

Tell me one thing you learned from this so called article.  I'll tell you the only thing that had any meat to it.  The fact that ticket sellers weren't getting their commissions.  

 

 

" 

Not saying that didn’t happen, but as a guy in commission sales for going on 30 years, commissions are always all buggered up. 
 

lord knows what the plan was , how complicated it is, what they use to calculate it, what SPIFs ( incentives) are in in a given month.  
 

my over generalization is 90% of commission reports have an error on them , and the average sales person spends about 10% of their time reviewing, correcting, and fighting for what’s owed them! 

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

A successful owner of a business is not always the same person who manages the business. Knowing what your strengths and weaknesses are in a complicated business environment is an indication that Pegula has enough humility and self-awareness to become a success. A lawyer who owns a firm isn't always the same person who manages the firm. A doctor who owns a large and varied practice isn't always the same person who manages the practice. The pizza mogul who owns a country-wide franchise business isn't always the same person who manages the business. 

 

I fully agree with all of this. And Terry was absolutely thinking that way when it came to natural gas. Probably in part because he was so strong at the science side, he was aware of his short comings on the business side. However, if I were to guess, this is Terry's play toy of sorts, an attempt to venture out on his own. Sort of similar to Jerry Jones, but with less meddling. It is his opportunity to create a major family venture within hospitality, entertainment, sports, etc. that his immediate family can be apart of. 

[Doc]

Just now, Mango said:

I could not tell you how much the family is worth. I can tell you they have at least 3 homes and a full time staff for a yacht on the east coast. I would guess worth much less than Terry, but was absolutely a business partner in the venture, not an employee. He would not have purchased this Bills because he most likely does not have a billion liquid. The joke was that he was working with Terry and always had the inside line in knowing the Bills were not going anywhere. 

 

It doesn't make sense that they are worth far less than Terry but were the real business poeple running the show while Terry was little more than a geologist.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, plenzmd1 said:

Not saying that didn’t happen, but as a guy in commission sales for going on 30 years, commissions are always all buggered up. 
 

lord knows what the plan was , how complicated it is, what they use to calculate it, what SPIFs ( incentives) are in in a given month.  
 

my over generalization is 90% of commission reports have an error on them , and the average sales person spends about 10% of their time reviewing, correcting, and fighting for what’s owed them! 

 

Yeah - they may have changed from a flat rate to a quota system, or any number of those random things consultants come in and propose.  Any change to a sales persons pay structure is met with disdain.  

[bbb]

3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Not saying that didn’t happen, but as a guy in commission sales for going on 30 years, commissions are always all buggered up. 
 

lord knows what the plan was , how complicated it is, what they use to calculate it, what SPIFs ( incentives) are in in a given month.  
 

my over generalization is 90% of commission reports have an error on them , and the average sales person spends about 10% of their time reviewing, correcting, and fighting for what’s owed them! 

 

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

Yeah - they may have changed from a flat rate to a quota system, or any number of those random things consultants come in and propose.  Any change to a sales persons pay structure is met with disdain.  

 

Well, I'll scratch the only thing in the whole article that actually said something.  

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

@SeattleBills, please don’t post entire articles. 
 

we can all see why you joined, and it makes my point. People who have lost their jobs are naturally upset. That have to blame someone, never themselves, and that is the Pegulas now. People on the Sabre thread , including @JohnC can tell you I was lambasting the Pegulas to their initial response to game day employees etc. 

 

but things have changed drastically  in the 6 weeks since that fateful Wednesday. And for Kim to come out guns ablazing , man , that should tell ya something. When is the last time an exec got fired and you did just not hear the perfunctory “ thank for their service and wish them well”. Implying some of these folks had motives other than making the teams and PSE successful is pretty damning, and I am sure pretty open from a liability standpoint. I mean she says flat out we were lied to and given false information. Wow. 
 

I put zero stock in ex employees replying anonymously.  

I have no problem with people criticizing the Pegulas for their initial response to the game day employees because they  didfumble in their attempt to explain what and why they were doing in this tumultuous situation. I may be mistaken but I think they did make some payments to these workers even though the season was postponed. (If I am wrong I would appreciate being corrected.)

 

What some people are forgetting is that this pandemic is considered a once in a century cataclysm  that will have lingering consequences for some time. It's a tough time for everyone whether you are on the business or labor side. There are no easy answers----you just try to get by as best you can.  

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

It doesn't make sense that they are worth far less than Terry but were the real business poeple running the show while Terry was little more than a geologist.

 

Sure it does, it is no different than a start up reaching out to a VC already involved in oil and gas for money in exchange for equity. 

[Lurker]

10 minutes ago, bbb said:

Tell me one thing you learned from this so called article.  I'll tell you the only thing that had any meat to it.  The fact that ticket sellers weren't getting their commissions.  Everything else was just mush. 

 

I learned that

• Two sources close to Bills head coach Sean McDermott say the January meetings left him concerned about low morale eroding the culture he and general manager Brandon Beane have cultivated over the past three years with a meticulous, holistic attitude.

• ...A league source took note of that proclamation, saying “That’s the Pegulas sending a message to their NFL peers that their other business decisions are not impacting their competitiveness. Roger Goodell pays attention to things like that.” 

• future stadium and arena costs — newly built or renovated — already have been incorporated into their business decisions.

• Today, the price of natural gas is $1.78, and oil is at $17.66 a barrel (actually, $7.50 bbl as I type this).

 

Curious.  Why are you such a vociferous defender of the premise this story is wrong or biased?   Do you have any direct knowledge of the situation that would refute Graham's research? 

 

 

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I fully agree with all of this. And Terry was absolutely thinking that way when it came to natural gas. Probably in part because he was so strong at the science side, he was aware of his short comings on the business side. However, if I were to guess, this is Terry's play toy of sorts, an attempt to venture out on his own. Sort of similar to Jerry Jones, but with less meddling. It is his opportunity to create a major family venture within hospitality, entertainment, sports, etc. that his immediate family can be apart of. 

Terry Pegula made some glaring set back mistakes with his football and hockey franchises. Most notably his hires were atrocious without much thought and consultation with outside voices. To his credit I think he has rebounded and learned from them. He has done better hiring qualified people to manage his major sport teams. I still consider hiring Rex Ryan not only a hideous mistake but and odd mistake made by someone who was clueless about the NFL. 

 

I agree with you that his involvement in his endeavors beyond the energy business were related to family legacy issues.  

[JohnC]

17 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It doesn't make sense that they are worth far less than Terry but were the real business poeple running the show while Terry was little more than a geologist.

Terry had an uncanny ability to figure out where was the best location to dig the hole for gas and oil. He was a talented geologist. 

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Terry had an uncanny ability to figure out where was the best location to dig the hole for gas and oil. He was a talented geologist. 

Geologists are pretty smart people

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Terry had an uncanny ability to figure out where was the best location to dig the hole for gas and oil. He was a talented geologist. 

 

I think if anyone ever told me they were a geologist it'd be like that time Jerry called the Dermatologist "Pimple popper!"... then realized they treat skin cancer.  Rock Scientist!  Oh right... oil and natural gas...

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, Mango said:

Sure it does, it is no different than a start up reaching out to a VC already involved in oil and gas for money in exchange for equity. 

 

The VC provides money.  The startup still needs to run the business.  If Terry had no business sense, they would have owned him and/or have run the business into the ground. 

 

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Terry had an uncanny ability to figure out where was the best location to dig the hole for gas and oil. He was a talented geologist. 

 

There are a lot of talented people who never make anywhere close to billions of dollars.  To paint him as someone just along for the ride is disingenuous at best.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

LOL!  And you call yourself a vet?

 

This is nothing compared to what was posted here about Ralph's impecible management skills over the years.    But thanks for posting...

 

I was here when RW owned the team and well remember the debates back then.  The issue was RW and his handlers had allowed the team to devolve into a non-competitive entity. 

 

We criticized RW because Littman was holding the purse strings tightly, better players were let go to be replaced with draft picks and coaching hires were uninspired.  Over time, it became obvious Buffalo couldn't attract top managers and there was no chance they'd be able to compete against other teams under the RW ownership group. 

 

To me it's not worth it expending energy to grind that ax against the Pegula's because their decisions are not team focused.  This grievance mentality isn't improving overall discourse, only lighting fires where there shouldn't be any. 

 

Also, I don't call myself a veteran.  I AM a veteran and have seen my share of two way live fires. 

[CountDorkula]

59 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

@SeattleBills, please don’t post entire articles. 
 

we can all see why you joined, and it makes my point. People who have lost their jobs are naturally upset. That have to blame someone, never themselves, and that is the Pegulas now. People on the Sabre thread , including @JohnC can tell you I was lambasting the Pegulas to their initial response to game day employees etc. 

 

but things have changed drastically  in the 6 weeks since that fateful Wednesday. And for Kim to come out guns ablazing , man , that should tell ya something. When is the last time an exec got fired and you did just not hear the perfunctory “ thank for their service and wish them well”. Implying some of these folks had motives other than making the teams and PSE successful is pretty damning, and I am sure pretty open from a liability standpoint. I mean she says flat out we were lied to and given false information. Wow. 
 

I put zero stock in ex employees replying anonymously.  

 

SO its not just ex employees, some of those that gave their feedback/information are current FTE's employed at PSE.

[That's No Moon]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That is likely, but it's equally likely if they were a well-run operation. Frankly, a new stadium may well have just become a back burner issue thanks to Covid-19.

It would be easier to stomach if they were well run

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

It would be easier to stomach if they were well run

 

I put up with Ralph for decades because the thought of having no Bills was worse. This isn't enough for me to break out my torch and pitchfork.

[Doc]

50 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I learned that

• Two sources close to Bills head coach Sean McDermott say the January meetings left him concerned about low morale eroding the culture he and general manager Brandon Beane have cultivated over the past three years with a meticulous, holistic attitude.

• ...A league source took note of that proclamation, saying “That’s the Pegulas sending a message to their NFL peers that their other business decisions are not impacting their competitiveness. Roger Goodell pays attention to things like that.” 

• future stadium and arena costs — newly built or renovated — already have been incorporated into their business decisions.

• Today, the price of natural gas is $1.78, and oil is at $17.66 a barrel (actually, $7.50 bbl as I type this).

 

Curious.  Why are you such a vociferous defender of the premise this story is wrong or biased?   Do you have any direct knowledge of the situation that would refute Graham's research?

 

I took ti to mean that the Pegulas are focusing on the Bills.  Because they're the gravy train.

 

14 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I was here when RW owned the team and well remember the debates back then.  The issue was RW and his handlers had allowed the team to devolve into a non-competitive entity. 

 

We criticized RW because Littman was holding the purse strings tightly, better players were let go to be replaced with draft picks and coaching hires were uninspired.  Over time, it became obvious Buffalo couldn't attract top managers and there was no chance they'd be able to compete against other teams under the RW ownership group. 

 

To me it's not worth it expending energy to grind that ax against the Pegula's because their decisions are not team focused.  This grievance mentality isn't improving overall discourse, only lighting fires where there shouldn't be any. 

 

Also, I don't call myself a veteran.  I AM a veteran and have seen my share of two way live fires. 

 

I suspect the ax is mostly because of their fracking.  Or it's from mostly/only Sabres fans.  If you're a fan of both and especially just of the Bills, you can't ignore how the Bills have done, early hiccups aside.

 

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I put up with Ralph for decades because the thought of having no Bills was worse. This isn't enough for me to break out my torch and pitchfork.

 

Unless you're a PSE employee, no one should care.  I doubt anyone even takes to task their own employers and how they handle their employees.

[plenzmd1]

14 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

 

SO its not just ex employees, some of those that gave their feedback/information are current FTE's employed at PSE.

Fair point, and i am not implying they are making things up. What I am saying is is you had an executives  there that , according to Kim Pegula, lied to them and were making decsions in their best interets, not their employers best interest. If that is the case, you can damn well be sure those that worked with/ for those execs knew the exact same thing...leading to a toxic culture. TAnd very few folks get fired and praise the folks who just fired them.

 

The nepotism stuff happens at any family run business...

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I took ti to mean that the Pegulas are focusing on the Bills.  Because they're the gravy train.

 

 

I suspect the ax is mostly because of their fracking.  Or it's from mostly/only Sabres fans.  If you're a fan of both and especially just of the Bills, you can't ignore how the Bills have done, early hiccups aside.

 

 

Unless you're a PSE employee, no one should care.  I doubt anyone even takes to task their own employers and how they handle their employees.

What if you have a bunch of friends that are? Is it okay to care then?