RiotAct Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, That's No Moon said: One of the first outcomes will be that they ask the community they just layed off 100+ people from to foot the bill for a stadium. not gonna happen. At least, not anytime in the near to medium-term future. Edited April 20, 2020 by RiotAct 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 I dunno, i was just lazily remembering what I thought I saw in an article I just read. If bbb went back and looked it up, his numbers are probably more accurate than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, RiotAct said: not gonna happen. At least, not anytime in the near to medium-term future. Yup. This pandemic will have long-lasting repercussions and a new stadium will be out of the discussion for awhile. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, Doc said: How can that be? They would have sold the team by now. yea there is no way they're losing that much money on that team. the yotes didnt even lose that much. and the teams all received tons of cash from the new teams coming into the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 I just read the whole article... Here are my conclusions Tim Graham - I get being outraged etc. But for whatever reason it never comes off as journalism. It reads very editorial for whatever reason, and like a pissed off editorial. PSE - A few things 1-they're clearly struggling with cash flow (None of their sports franchises are producing any income, their restaurants and hotels are either closed or losing money, and they have assets tied up probably in real estate and the stock market (not exactly a good time to sell Oil Futures)) 2-They're billionaires so people don't feel bad. So I guess Tim Graham wants them to borrow money to give to people? Or does he want them to sell the sabres or bills or something? 3-It doesn't sound like Kim is doing a particularly good job. But it sounds like things aren't as good behind the scenes as she'd made it out to be in public. So maybe thats what Tim is trying to expose? At the end of the day, businesses make money. If you're losing money you have to find ways to make money. Layoffs are a part of that. It may be "tone-deaf" to do it during a pandemic, but it's happening everywhere. I didn't realize the Sabres were doing so poorly financially. I know he spent a bunch of money early on and they failed, but it sounds like the caps going up but TV and ticket prices aren't mirroring in smaller markets. This to me points to another lockout. You can't give players money that doesn't exist. You also can't get out of fully guaranteed contracts very efficiently 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, aristocrat said: yea there is no way they're losing that much money on that team. the yotes didnt even lose that much. and the teams all received tons of cash from the new teams coming into the league. It was a joke, in reference to another conversation. I doubt the Sabres are losing that much, but I could see them losing money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 39 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: And let's consider the outcome here. Do we want to run the Pegulas out of town? What happens next? From where does the next multi-billionaire that loves Buffalo come along that won't move our teams? I'm willing to overlook a lot to keep my teams here. I don’t agree with some of the stuff the Pegulas have done, but if either of our teams are ever moved they won’t be replaced. We are one of the smallest, least profitable markets in both the NFL & NHL. That’s just reality. It was always too good to be true that some billionaire was just going to keep operating the team (Sabres) at a loss every year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 42 minutes ago, bbb said: A source with knowledge of the numbers said the Sabres have been losing between $40 million and $60 million the past few seasons. Do you know if that's Sabres, or if it includes Harbor Center etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: It was a joke, in reference to another conversation. I doubt the Sabres are losing that much, but I could see them losing money. i dont doubt they have had losing money years esp out of the playoffs but 50 mil would mean the coyotes or florida would be losing double that. and that's just insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 I'd be curious to hear from the 'tone-deaf' crowd exactly when layoffs will be ok again. Also curious how many of those people are still paying their barber, cleaning lady, lawn guy, etc., even though many of those people are no longer providing their fee-based services. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 I’ve posted this here before, but it is important to remember. Pegula is NOT a business man, he is a geologist. Pegula made his fortune by finding and digging natural gas. He did not do it by running a successful business. He had a partner (a Buffalo family) who did all of the negotiating, hiring, firing, financing, etc. so that Terry could be silo’d as finding natural gas. I have had some people role their eyes on here at this, but I promise you this is this case. I’m actually very good family friends with the family in question. I have known them since I was a kid (1980’s)well before the Pegula’s purchased any teams in Buffalo. I should note, said family has zero involvement with the current Pegula’s PSE ventures. This is Terry’s pet project. We used to joke as Ralph got older, and his death was becoming more of a when not if that “The Bills won’t leave Buffalo, xxx’s dad would never let that happen”...but it wasn’t really a joke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 47 minutes ago, Lurker said: No vendetta. But, thanks for giving me a good laugh... Tell me one thing you learned from this so called article. I'll tell you the only thing that had any meat to it. The fact that ticket sellers weren't getting their commissions. Everything else was just mush. 44 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: quotes from 39 disgruntled employees does not make things "facts". Sure sounds like something nefrious was going on with some these people.. That's how you get this mush 28 minutes ago, Doc said: How can that be? They would have sold the team by now. I would think! 26 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: I dunno, i was just lazily remembering what I thought I saw in an article I just read. If bbb went back and looked it up, his numbers are probably more accurate than mine. Actually, Timmah's lazy writing leaves both interpretations now that I think about - could be my number over two years or yours over one. 9 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Do you know if that's Sabres, or if it includes Harbor Center etc.? Who knows - it's from Timmah's "source" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mango said: I’ve posted this here before, but it is important to remember. Pegula is NOT a business man, he is a geologist. Pegula made his fortune by finding and digging natural gas. He did not do it by running a successful business. He had a partner (a Buffalo family) who did all of the negotiating, hiring, firing, financing, etc. so that Terry could be silo’d as finding natural gas. I have had some people role their eyes on here at this, but I promise you this is this case. I’m actually very good family friends with the family in question. I have known them since I was a kid (1980’s)well before the Pegula’s purchased any teams in Buffalo. I should note, said family has zero involvement with the current Pegula’s PSE ventures. This is Terry’s pet project. We used to joke as Ralph got older, and his death was becoming more of a when not if that “The Bills won’t leave Buffalo, xxx’s dad would never let that happen”...but it wasn’t really a joke. How much is the other family worth? More than Terry? And that other family would have kept the Bills from moving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, bbb said: Who knows - it's from Timmah's "source" I could "understand if it is tied to their downtown debt. Sabres, not so much.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 @SeattleBills, please don’t post entire articles. we can all see why you joined, and it makes my point. People who have lost their jobs are naturally upset. That have to blame someone, never themselves, and that is the Pegulas now. People on the Sabre thread , including @JohnC can tell you I was lambasting the Pegulas to their initial response to game day employees etc. but things have changed drastically in the 6 weeks since that fateful Wednesday. And for Kim to come out guns ablazing , man , that should tell ya something. When is the last time an exec got fired and you did just not hear the perfunctory “ thank for their service and wish them well”. Implying some of these folks had motives other than making the teams and PSE successful is pretty damning, and I am sure pretty open from a liability standpoint. I mean she says flat out we were lied to and given false information. Wow. I put zero stock in ex employees replying anonymously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Mango said: I’ve posted this here before, but it is important to remember. Pegula is NOT a business man, he is a geologist. Pegula made his fortune by finding and digging natural gas. He did not do it by running a successful business. He had a partner (a Buffalo family) who did all of the negotiating, hiring, firing, financing, etc. so that Terry could be silo’d as finding natural gas. I have had some people role their eyes on here at this, but I promise you this is this case. I’m actually very good family friends with the family in question. I have known them since I was a kid (1980’s)well before the Pegula’s purchased any teams in Buffalo. I should note, said family has zero involvement with the current Pegula’s PSE ventures. This is Terry’s pet project. We used to joke as Ralph got older, and his death was becoming more of a when not if that “The Bills won’t leave Buffalo, xxx’s dad would never let that happen”...but it wasn’t really a joke. A successful owner of a business is not always the same person who manages the business. Knowing what your strengths and weaknesses are in a complicated business environment is an indication that Pegula has enough humility and self-awareness to become a success. A lawyer who owns a firm isn't always the same person who manages the firm. A doctor who owns a large and varied practice isn't always the same person who manages the practice. The pizza mogul who owns a country-wide franchise business isn't always the same person who manages the business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 27 minutes ago, dneveu said: I just read the whole article... Here are my conclusions Tim Graham - I get being outraged etc. But for whatever reason it never comes off as journalism. It reads very editorial for whatever reason, and like a pissed off editorial. PSE - A few things 1-they're clearly struggling with cash flow (None of their sports franchises are producing any income, their restaurants and hotels are either closed or losing money, and they have assets tied up probably in real estate and the stock market (not exactly a good time to sell Oil Futures)) 2-They're billionaires so people don't feel bad. So I guess Tim Graham wants them to borrow money to give to people? Or does he want them to sell the sabres or bills or something? 3-It doesn't sound like Kim is doing a particularly good job. But it sounds like things aren't as good behind the scenes as she'd made it out to be in public. So maybe thats what Tim is trying to expose? At the end of the day, businesses make money. If you're losing money you have to find ways to make money. Layoffs are a part of that. It may be "tone-deaf" to do it during a pandemic, but it's happening everywhere. I didn't realize the Sabres were doing so poorly financially. I know he spent a bunch of money early on and they failed, but it sounds like the caps going up but TV and ticket prices aren't mirroring in smaller markets. This to me points to another lockout. You can't give players money that doesn't exist. You also can't get out of fully guaranteed contracts very efficiently I think we found Tim Graham's new TBD burner account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Just now, Doc said: How much is the other family worth? More than Terry? And that other family would have kept the Bills from moving? I could not tell you how much the family is worth. I can tell you they have at least 3 homes and a full time staff for a yacht on the east coast. I would guess worth much less than Terry, but was absolutely a business partner in the venture, not an employee. He would not have purchased this Bills because he most likely does not have a billion liquid. The joke was that he was working with Terry and always had the inside line in knowing the Bills were not going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Just now, PromoTheRobot said: I think we found Tim Graham's new TBD burner account. Lol - and i hate Tim Graham! Ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: I could "understand if it is tied to their downtown debt. Sabres, not so much.' I agree. That number makes no sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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