aristocrat Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: They sold most of their energy holdings years ago. that's not true. they've been drilling for gas the last several years and working up some pretty hefty fines doing so. https://www.investigativepost.org/2018/05/08/pegula-back-fracking-and-violating-regulations/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 30 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: The US price of oil just went NEGATIVE! Below zero. Why should someone whose wealth is based on gas and oil be worried? Pegs sold his original energy assets (East Resources) in 2010 What he does today is gentleman farmer drilling. His exploration "firm" has 20 employees. That's not going to put much food on the table (or gas in the yacht)... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, aristocrat said: that's not true. they've been drilling for gas the last several years and working up some pretty hefty fines doing so. https://www.investigativepost.org/2018/05/08/pegula-back-fracking-and-violating-regulations/ Like I said.... "Terry Pegula cashed in when he sold the bulk of his hydrofracking business in 2010 for $4.7 billion." It was the very first sentence in the article you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Just now, Lurker said: Pegs sold his original energy assets (East Resources) in 2010 What he does today is gentleman farmer drilling. His exploration "firm" has 20 employees. That's not going to put much food on the table (or gas in the yacht)... He still has billions (well, used to be billions) in mineral rights. Right now they are near worthless, though I'm sure they will bounce back some. While you can fault their business acumen, I don't fault their reaction to seeing their wealth evaporate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: He still has billions (well, used to be billions) in mineral rights. Right now they are near worthless, though I'm sure they will bounce back some. While you can fault their business acumen, I don't fault their reaction to seeing their wealth evaporate. Fair enough... Edited April 20, 2020 by Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 I was under the impression he sold off a lot of his stuff prior to the Bills purchase, but also held onto some land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 hour ago, May Day 10 said: I was under the impression he sold off a lot of his stuff prior to the Bills purchase, but also held onto some land. He did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: That's doubtful. While Forbes has only 4 teams losing more than 10 million (last data was for 2018-19 season), the Sabres they had at 1.9 million operating revenue. They lead the NHL annually on Local TV ratings. They took in 135 million against player costs of only 77 million. Of the 9 teams with lower revenue, 6 lost money. Only the Panthers were over 20 million in the red. It is very difficult to precisely unravel the actual financial situation when the multi-businesses are intertwined. Pegula owns the arena which is not hosting events. And he owns the Rochester Amerks and their facility which is dormant. The restaurant 716 is closed and the hotel which is associated with the activities associated with hockey and the secondary rinks are not in use. This season the organization is paying its players for games that will not be played. I believe (not totally sure) that the Sabres are paying its players up to the end of April. My point is whatever the estimate being made by outside entities for the financial status of the organization is very crude and off the mark. Whatever credible date that existed for the 2018-2019 season is not very applicable to the current situation. You don't have to be a financial wizard to recognize that the financial situation for the Pegula hockey operation is very dire as it is for most businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, JohnC said: It is very difficult to precisely unravel the actual financial situation when the multi-businesses are intertwined. Pegula owns the arena which is not hosting events. And he owns the Rochester Amerks and their facility which is dormant. The restaurant 716 is closed and the hotel which is associated with the activities associated with hockey and the secondary rinks are not in use. This season the organization is paying its players for games that will not be played. I believe (not totally sure) that the Sabres are paying its players up to the end of April. My point is whatever the estimate being made by outside entities for the financial status of the organization is very crude and off the mark. Whatever credible date that existed for the 2018-2019 season is not very applicable to the current situation. You don't have to be a financial wizard to recognize that the financial situation for the Pegula hockey operation is very dire as it is for most businesses. I don't think anyone is talking about this season, which is abyssmal for any sports owner. The article claimed that they've been losing tens of millions on the Sabres for years, meaning pre-dating this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Part of losses on the Sabres has to be picking the.wrong executives and coaches with salaries held over. Part is the overall league finances to me just don’t seem to support multimillion dollar player contracts. The Pegulas have made it their mission to have a significant impact on WNY. Football, hockey, lacrosse, the construction they’ve done. So they’re pretty extended. Problem right now is the pandemic is killing off all the revenue so it’s logical they are in financial difficulty. If and when things get back to normal they’ll probably be OK. But if they ever felt they had to sell I am pretty confident the league would want a buyer that keeps them in Buffalo. The league knows Buffalo is one of the best hockey cities in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 57 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Part of losses on the Sabres has to be picking the.wrong executives and coaches with salaries held over. Part is the overall league finances to me just don’t seem to support multimillion dollar player contracts. The Pegulas have made it their mission to have a significant impact on WNY. Football, hockey, lacrosse, the construction they’ve done. So they’re pretty extended. Problem right now is the pandemic is killing off all the revenue so it’s logical they are in financial difficulty. If and when things get back to normal they’ll probably be OK. But if they ever felt they had to sell I am pretty confident the league would want a buyer that keeps them in Buffalo. The league knows Buffalo is one of the best hockey cities in the NHL. Unlike the NFL, the NHL prizes it's Buffalo fan base. We carry their TV ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, JohnC said: It is very difficult to precisely unravel the actual financial situation when the multi-businesses are intertwined. Pegula owns the arena which is not hosting events. And he owns the Rochester Amerks and their facility which is dormant. The restaurant 716 is closed and the hotel which is associated with the activities associated with hockey and the secondary rinks are not in use. This season the organization is paying its players for games that will not be played. I believe (not totally sure) that the Sabres are paying its players up to the end of April. My point is whatever the estimate being made by outside entities for the financial status of the organization is very crude and off the mark. Whatever credible date that existed for the 2018-2019 season is not very applicable to the current situation. You don't have to be a financial wizard to recognize that the financial situation for the Pegula hockey operation is very dire as it is for most businesses. Pegula doesn't own Key Bank Arena. He leases it. As doc said--we are talking about previous seasons. They aren't losing 20-30 million a season (which is what I was responding to). No owner has. Forbes has the same analysts doing pro team valuations for years. You simply have no basis to claim that their analysis is "crude and off the mark" to this point. Restaurant and hotel business in a town like Buffalo is always a huge risk. 44 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Unlike the NFL, the NHL prizes it's Buffalo fan base. We carry their TV ratings. Locally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Pegula doesn't own Key Bank Arena. He leases it. As doc said--we are talking about previous seasons. They aren't losing 20-30 million a season (which is what I was responding to). No owner has. Forbes has the same analysts doing pro team valuations for years. You simply have no basis to claim that their analysis is "crude and off the mark" to this point. Restaurant and hotel business in a town like Buffalo is always a huge risk. Locally... I stand corrected that the Pegulas lease the arena. That still doesn't alter the fact that they lose revenue when the facility is not holding events. That's the point. I was making the point that the financial analysis in the previous years doesn't alter the fact that the Pegula business in this coronavirus cataclysm has dramatically declined possibly teetering on insolvency on the hockey side of the business. Edited April 21, 2020 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 8 hours ago, JohnC said: I stand corrected that the Pegulas lease the arena. That still doesn't alter the fact that they lose revenue when the facility is not holding events. That's the point. I was making the point that the financial analysis in the previous years doesn't alter the fact that the Pegula business in this coronavirus cataclysm has dramatically declined possibly teetering on insolvency on the hockey side of the business. None of that makes him unique among NHL team owners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: None of that makes him unique among NHL team owners... I don't understand your point. Who said he was unique among NHL team owners? The point that I was stressing in prior posts is that the businesses he is involved beyond his hockey associated business such as energy and the hospitality business have cratered with no quick fix on the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, JohnC said: I don't understand your point. Who said he was unique among NHL team owners? The point that I was stressing in prior posts is that the businesses he is involved beyond his hockey associated business such as energy and the hospitality business have cratered with no quick fix on the horizon. The same goes for many owners. Just off the top of my head, Patriot Place is probably taking a bath as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 2 hours ago, JohnC said: I don't understand your point. Who said he was unique among NHL team owners? The point that I was stressing in prior posts is that the businesses he is involved beyond his hockey associated business such as energy and the hospitality business have cratered with no quick fix on the horizon. See below. 51 minutes ago, Doc said: The same goes for many owners. Just off the top of my head, Patriot Place is probably taking a bath as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: See below. Who is saying otherwise? Edited April 21, 2020 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 20 hours ago, aristocrat said: that's not true. they've been drilling for gas the last several years and working up some pretty hefty fines doing so. https://www.investigativepost.org/2018/05/08/pegula-back-fracking-and-violating-regulations/ Mini earth quakes are damaging structures/people homes....the frackers say prove it......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Bills Fan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 The San Francisco Giants just laid off 1200 employees. Things are happening all over the sports world. The good news for the Pegulas is that if the NFL plays (and there is a good chance it will in some form), they will get TV revenue regardless of fans in the seats. That is a ton of money and will sustain things, I would bet, since that seems to be the cash cow. Many employees would likely be rehired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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