Why not a Free Agent RB2?

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Yep.  Some teams reject will do just fine (sic).  We need to get somebody who other teams are scared of.

 

 

 

 

Oh, please. That old "some team's reject" argument is just plain ridiculous. Here are just some of the Hall of Famers (or future ones) who have been at some point in their careers FAs before playing very well with another team: Reggie White, Drew Brees, Deion Sanders, Charles Woodson, Brett Favre when he still had some terrific football in him, Tom Brady ...

 

Not to mention Bryce Paup, London Fletcher and Takeo Spikes (yes, he was officially an RDA when Cincy didn't match) for the Bills. Sam Adams, Hyde and Poyer, James Lofton, and Big Ted Washington also come to mind.

 

Also, Priest Holmes, Simeon Rice, James Farrior,  Mike Vrabel, Mark Ingram, Tyrann Mathieu and Mitchell Schwartz for the champion Chiefs, Richard Sherman for the other Super Bowl team, Andrew Whitworth, Alex Mack, Calais Campbell, Allen Robinson II, Za"Darius Smith,  ... it goes on and on and on.

 

And we don't need to get somebody who other teams are scared of. It would be fine if we did but it is anything but a need. The guy other teams are scared of is Devin Singletary. We'd be just fine pulling a move like the Polian-Levy Bills did when they needed a 2nd RB behind Thurman and they brought in a "reject," (your word, not mine) from Green Bay who had averaged 4.0 yards per carry in his three years there which led to the Packers letting him go in free agency. Kenneth Davis did just fine here as "some team's reject."

[CommonCents]

16 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Oh, please. That old "some team's reject" argument is just plain ridiculous. Here are just some of the Hall of Famers (or future ones) who have been at some point in their careers FAs before playing very well with another team: Reggie White, Drew Brees, Deion Sanders, Charles Woodson, Brett Favre when he still had some terrific football in him, Tom Brady ...

 

Not to mention Bryce Paup, London Fletcher and Takeo Spikes (yes, he was officially an RDA when Cincy didn't match) for the Bills. Sam Adams, Hyde and Poyer, James Lofton, and Big Ted Washington also come to mind.

 

Also, Priest Holmes, Simeon Rice, James Farrior,  Mike Vrabel, Mark Ingram, Tyrann Mathieu and Mitchell Schwartz for the champion Chiefs, Richard Sherman for the other Super Bowl team, Andrew Whitworth, Alex Mack, Calais Campbell, Allen Robinson II, Za"Darius Smith,  ... it goes on and on and on.

 

And we don't need to get somebody who other teams are scared of. It would be fine if we did but it is anything but a need. The guy other teams are scared of is Devin Singletary. We'd be just fine pulling a move like the Polian-Levy Bills did when they needed a 2nd RB behind Thurman and they brought in a "reject," (your word, not mine) from Green Bay who had averaged 4.0 yards per carry in his three years there which led to the Packers letting him go in free agency. Kenneth Davis did just fine here as "some team's reject."

Wordy. Pick one RB that is currently a FA who you can see taking 150+ carries and averaging over 4 YPC? 

 

Singletary is small, he isn’t taking 200 plus carries nevermind 300. 

[maryland-bills-fan]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

He was pretty productive when given chances.  Saying he “couldn’t” break through last year isnt really fair when he had a future HOF who was role model and leader along side a productive rookie in front of him.

Singletary was 22nd in yards gained rushing and 44th in yards gained receiving.  We can not escape the fact that those numbers are low production.

[maryland-bills-fan]

6 hours ago, DJB said:

It's pretty obvious that we are heading into the draft hoping to take someone and the   fall back  is a FA.

 

We aren't starting  the season  with Singletary ,  Yeldon  and T Jones at running back . 

Well I disagree a bit with that.  I think the plan is to get the "touchdown maker" type player in the second round. The backup plan is to draft somebody to share the RB with Singletary i the 3rd round.  We have a shot at  Swift, Taylor, Dobbins and E-T at 54 or a move up.  We should be able to draft Akers at 54.  There are a lot of 3rd round decent backs if those things fail- enough of them that we could do a number of things, some of which might be surprising.   Trade down from 54, move up from 83(?), maybe ever swap this year's 3rd for a 2021 second? 

[machine gun kelly]

We’re probably drafting one, or we get a serviceable FA, but nothing special.

[Rochesterfan]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

I know, I know. RB is a devalued position. But if we are looking in round 3-5 for another RB, we will mostly be looking for a serviceable back. Sometimes you find a star, but that’s not the norm. So why not try to acquire someone else in the RB room and not pigeonhole us into a need pick?

 

Freeman, Miller, Thompson, Hyde, Crowell have all had varying levels of success at the NFL level and somewhat recently. Many of them have been far better than TJ Yeldon, who couldn’t even supplant Frank Gore’s corpse last year. Not to mention some potential trade targets like Gio Bernard.

 

Do we really need to draft an RB2?

 

I am thinking 100% the opposite as you.
 

Maybe with a list of 5 FA guys at minimum left - several that will need a physical before we sign - we can wait - draft BPA and if we get a RB great and if not you still have options.

 

Maybe if they get a guy in RD 2 or 3 as BPA - it impacts which FA you want.  If you get a power guy like Dillion - maybe you don’t want Hyde or Crowell and Freeman becomes a choice.  Maybe you get a speed back or a late 6-7 rd back and therefore you want Hyde.  Maybe at each position of the Bills draft the BPA is not a RB and therefore they have to go to FA again.

 

Signing a guy now could actually limit who you draft or keep them from drafting anyone.  I think with the number of RBs available in FA still - we are not pigeon holed - it is the exact opposite- they are completely free to draft BPA and then see if a RB is in that group and then if needed pick up a complementary FA RB if needed.

[papazoid]

i say beane will do BOTH.....add a free agent RB2 and draft one early in 2nd or 3rd round

 

who knows what yeldon can do....he only had 17 carries all year....one fumble (josh had 8)

Edited April 15, 2020 by papazoid

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I would love to add Carlos Hyde to the RB room.  I think he would be a great compliment to Singletary, and I’d like to see Motor average at least 20-25 touches per game.  

 

That said, if Swift, Taylor or Dobbins are there at 54 I think Beane would have to strongly consider them.  Regardless, I think they’ll draft a RB somewhere...doesn’t need to be with our 2nd rounder.

[Kmart128]

This RB class is extremely good. Is call it the 2nd best postion after WR. I think Bills really like Moss and CEH.

[ProcessAccepted]

7 hours ago, Mango said:

not to beat a dead horse but his fumble rate is 1.2%. For reference Emmitt Smith fumble rate is 1.3%. Not that Yeldon is Emmitt, but he’s not fumbling all that much. He’s also never fumbled more than twice in a season. 
 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YeldT.00.htm

Yeah I know, but to me it just seemed that they lost faith in him. I know it was only two fumbles but watching it on tv I was worried everytime he got the ball. Not sure why

[CapeBreton]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I would love to add Carlos Hyde to the RB room.  I think he would be a great compliment to Singletary, and I’d like to see Motor average at least 20-25 touches per game.  

 

That said, if Swift, Taylor or Dobbins are there at 54 I think Beane would have to strongly consider them.  Regardless, I think they’ll draft a RB somewhere...doesn’t need to be with our 2nd rounder.

 

I like Carlos Hyde as a backup plan if they don't get the RB they want in the draft. But how much will he cost? Latavius Murray got 4 years for 14M last off season to backup Kamara.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

8 minutes ago, CapeBreton said:

 

I like Carlos Hyde as a backup plan if they don't get the RB they want in the draft. But how much will he cost? Latavius Murray got 4 years for 14M last off season to backup Kamara.

 

Spotrak has his projected market value at around 3 million/year.  I’d take him on a 2 year deal.

[Einstein's Dog]

We don't need to draft an RB.  But most Bills fans including myself would like to see it for the following reasons:

1.  You can get someone better than the old Hyde/Freeman/Miller dogs.

2.  You can have this good RB in his prime locked up under contract for at least 4 years - that adds continuity.  And is an advantage over the FAs.

3.  It helps Josh.  You get the continuity above, plus an RB that deters to Josh.

4.  The FO has shown through the D Singletary pick that they can identify good RBs (better than what they have shown with say WRs).

 

So while the FO does not need to draft an RB because there are FAs available, the hope is that they will.  They've left a clear spot open.  But since they don't need to, they can wait for value in the third or fourth round if they chose.

[nucci]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

That guy's name is Devin Singletary. We need a backup running back.

 

It's getting pretty ridiculous with what fans are expecting out of a backup player. No, we don't need to spend a high draft pick and no, we don't need to bring in a starting caliber running back. We need a change of pace back.

what pace are you trying to change? Singletary is very quick and has decent speed and is a good receiver. Are you looking for someone slower?  What is wrong with having another talented back that is similar?

Edited April 15, 2020 by nucci

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Singletary was 22nd in yards gained rushing and 44th in yards gained receiving.  We can not escape the fact that those numbers are low production.

Ugh, what?  How does that make sense?  You are using his totals (as a RB who split the load with Gore) versus his average production per touch where he was tied for first in yards per carry?

 

Sorry that was a silly argument IMHO.  He was highly productive with his touches, but as a rookie he shared the duties with a future HOF RB so his “totals” are not going to reflect his overall productivity fairly or accurately.  In fact, saying Devin had “low” production is about the worst assessment I’ve seen yet on any topic related to our running game.  
 

PS:  He also missed 4 games too...so again, his “totals” being used to show he had low production is pretty useless way to grade how productive he was.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[Bookie Man]

14 hours ago, TigerJ said:

TJ Yeldin is something of a mystery.  He's got a decent skill set.  He's good sized and can catch the ball.  He's had years when he's had solid production, and he isn't that old.  Yet through most of last season he couldn't buy his way on to the field.  He had a few fumbles, I guess.  I don't remember.  But if McDermott is going to punish him for the fumbles, why is he still around?  Brandon Beane is saying nice things about him to boot.  It makes you wonder why he's still here.  The way he's regarded inside the coaches office will have a lot to do with the Bills' draft plans at running back, but apart from Beane's comments we really don't know.  I'm thinking the Bills will draft a RB on day 2, but a value free agent is certainly possible.  If the Bills really are done with Yeldin, they could do both.   There are some home run hitters in the draft, and some value battering rams in free agency.  

I think Yeldon is the ultimate wildcard. He's not a game breaker, but he's been serviceable in this league. He's got size, decent speed, above average receiving skills and low mileage. He's been kind of on everyone's doghouse it seems. He had a small stretch of fumbles last year, a few in the redzone iirc. But when you watch him in clips from last year, he's got a pretty nice burst. He should've got more reps later in the season, when Gore fell off imo. 

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Oh, please. That old "some team's reject" argument is just plain ridiculous. Here are just some of the Hall of Famers (or future ones) who have been at some point in their careers FAs before playing very well with another team: Reggie White, Drew Brees, Deion Sanders, Charles Woodson, Brett Favre when he still had some terrific football in him, Tom Brady ...

 

Not to mention Bryce Paup, London Fletcher and Takeo Spikes (yes, he was officially an RDA when Cincy didn't match) for the Bills. Sam Adams, Hyde and Poyer, James Lofton, and Big Ted Washington also come to mind.

 

Also, Priest Holmes, Simeon Rice, James Farrior,  Mike Vrabel, Mark Ingram, Tyrann Mathieu and Mitchell Schwartz for the champion Chiefs, Richard Sherman for the other Super Bowl team, Andrew Whitworth, Alex Mack, Calais Campbell, Allen Robinson II, Za"Darius Smith,  ... it goes on and on and on.

 

And we don't need to get somebody who other teams are scared of. It would be fine if we did but it is anything but a need. The guy other teams are scared of is Devin Singletary. We'd be just fine pulling a move like the Polian-Levy Bills did when they needed a 2nd RB behind Thurman and they brought in a "reject," (your word, not mine) from Green Bay who had averaged 4.0 yards per carry in his three years there which led to the Packers letting him go in free agency. Kenneth Davis did just fine here as "some team's reject."

Your argument is grossly flawed.  You are comparing players at positions who play way longer into their careers (including guys into their 40’s as you have multiple on your list) at high levels than RBs. 

Sorry but nothing you wrote actually makes a case for an aging retread Veteran RB.  Even one of the few RBs you named, Priest Holmes was in his prime and had been solid for a lesser Ravens team before breaking out for KC.  

Edited April 15, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[MJS]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Ugh, what?  How does that make sense?  You are using his totals (as a RB who split the load with Gore) versus his average production per touch where he was tied for first in yards per carry?

 

Sorry that was a silly argument IMHO.  He was highly productive with his touches, but as a rookie he shared the duties with a future HOF RB so his “totals” are not going to reflect his overall productivity fairly or accurately.  In fact, saying Devin had “low” production is about the worst assessment I’ve seen yet on any topic related to our running game.  

He also missed games with injury and was a rookie, so yeah of course his totals were not elite.

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, MJS said:

He also missed games with injury and was a rookie, so yeah of course his totals were not elite.

Yes excellent add on point 

[Rocky Landing]

Christian Wade, anyone?