StHustle Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 On 4/11/2020 at 12:27 AM, JESSEFEFFER said: I think I need to issue an APB for the point of my thread because everyone is missing it. Almost half of the supposedly inaccurate throws in the video were errant due to something BESIDES HIS ACCURACY. That's my point. Agree or don't. Or maybe we should put the one big point you are MISSING on a milk carton. Josh finished as the least accurate QB both his years in the league. It sounds bad trying to make excuses for that. He needs to work improving that vs hoping for better luck. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, StHustle said: Or maybe we should put the one big point you are MISSING on a milk carton. Josh finished as the least accurate QB both his years in the league. It sounds bad trying to make excuses for that. He needs to work improving that vs hoping for better luck. also this... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldog Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Mango said: also this... Those expecting Josh Allen to "develop" into a precision type quarterback (like a Drew Brees) are all likely in for a big disappointment. I am a big supporter of Josh - he's the most fun & exciting QB we have had in our backfield in many years - however, it is likely that he will always be what he is now - a QB that is capable of making huge plays, and able to make them with his legs as well as him arm, while sometimes making some head scratchers. This does not preclude Allen from leading us to a Super Bowl victory - not all Super Bowl winning QB's were cut from the Brees or Brady mold. Let's enjoy the great things Josh can do & stop wishing that he could turn into someone/something that he is not. While there are never any guarantees -- Here's hoping Josh makes another leap forward this year - as he did between year 1 & 2 of his career. Secondly - that list of guys above -- with a "better" % than Josh Allen is indicative of how useless statistics can sometimes be - would anyone suggest that any of these guys are better QB's than Josh Allen or would anyone suggest that they would want one of them as the Bills QB instead Of Josh Allen because of those "better" %'s? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Mango said: also this... College stats lmfao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 53 minutes ago, Bulldog said: Those expecting Josh Allen to "develop" into a precision type quarterback (like a Drew Brees) are all likely in for a big disappointment. I am a big supporter of Josh - he's the most fun & exciting QB we have had in our backfield in many years - however, it is likely that he will always be what he is now - a QB that is capable of making huge plays, and able to make them with his legs as well as him arm, while sometimes making some head scratchers. This does not preclude Allen from leading us to a Super Bowl victory - not all Super Bowl winning QB's were cut from the Brees or Brady mold. Let's enjoy the great things Josh can do & stop wishing that he could turn into someone/something that he is not. While there are never any guarantees -- Here's hoping Josh makes another leap forward this year - as he did between year 1 & 2 of his career. Secondly - that list of guys above -- with a "better" % than Josh Allen is indicative of how useless statistics can sometimes be - would anyone suggest that any of these guys are better QB's than Josh Allen or would anyone suggest that they would want one of them as the Bills QB instead Of Josh Allen because of those "better" %'s? Agree with this. I don't think Allen will ever be a precision passer. But then nor has Big Ben ever been. He is accurate enough and has won two Superbowls so you don't have to be Brady, Brees, Manning precise to be accurate enough. You can win a Superbowl without a precision passer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 14 hours ago, GoBills808 said: No. You posited a hypothetical wherein Allen returns the 2019 offense in 2020 and wondered what his improvement might be. I responded with an actual example of the best young QB in the league, returning basically the same roster, whose stats did not improve...illustrating my original point that there’s no point in looking for some non-team dependent statistical benchmarks you can point to as a referendum on a QB’s trajectory. ^said point a lot Uh, Mahomes and his #1 WR battled injuries all year. Unlike the year before when they were both healthy all year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, FireChans said: Uh, Mahomes and his #1 WR battled injuries all year. Unlike the year before when they were both healthy all year. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 12, 2020 Author Share Posted April 12, 2020 3 hours ago, StHustle said: Or maybe we should put the one big point you are MISSING on a milk carton. Josh finished as the least accurate QB both his years in the league. It sounds bad trying to make excuses for that. He needs to work improving that vs hoping for better luck. The point you are missing is that the person doing the "grading" and put the video together chose a sample of 15 or so errant throws and 6 to 10 of which had nothing to do with accuracy. Therefore, I question the grader and creator of video who I've been informed is Cian Fahey. Throws that were disrupted by contact with his arm or leg or tipped by a DL are not evidence of poor accuracy. It's evidence of a sloppy process or a biased agenda. Put that on a milk carton. As for the rest WE ALL KNOW he needs more development. But, if the video is tied to his grading system, I reject its product. Some here seem to know his work quite well and think he clings to an anti Josh agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Agree with this. I don't think Allen will ever be a precision passer. But then nor has Big Ben ever been. He is accurate enough and has won two Superbowls so you don't have to be Brady, Brees, Manning precise to be accurate enough. You can win a Superbowl without a precision passer. And I never that Manning was incredibly accurate, especially in his later years. What Manning was good at was always knowing or figuring out where the play was and then getting the ball there well, but not with the precision Brees has. I agree, too. Allen will never be like Brees, and I think he can be better than Roethlisberger. I really think it's just learning. He seems to have all the on-field physical skills. He has the arm, he has the moxie, he has the size. He simply has it all. More mobile than Brady or Manning, strongest arm of any of them, ability to move in the pocket and take contact. Best ball carrier of all of them. Physical skills isn't the problem. The challenge for Allen is to master the game off the field and learn to process information on field accurately and quickly. Ben and Peyton and Brady and Brees all have that. Allen has shown over two years that he's learning it. The question is will he continue to learn, year after year, like those guys did? And if he doesn't, how much better is he going to get before he plateaus? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: And I never that Manning was incredibly accurate, especially in his later years. What Manning was good at was always knowing or figuring out where the play was and then getting the ball there well, but not with the precision Brees has. I agree, too. Allen will never be like Brees, and I think he can be better than Roethlisberger. I really think it's just learning. He seems to have all the on-field physical skills. He has the arm, he has the moxie, he has the size. He simply has it all. More mobile than Brady or Manning, strongest arm of any of them, ability to move in the pocket and take contact. Best ball carrier of all of them. Physical skills isn't the problem. The challenge for Allen is to master the game off the field and learn to process information on field accurately and quickly. Ben and Peyton and Brady and Brees all have that. Allen has shown over two years that he's learning it. The question is will he continue to learn, year after year, like those guys did? And if he doesn't, how much better is he going to get before he plateaus? Early Peyton Manning was devilishly accurate. It was what made him who he was because he never had the biggest arm. Eli had a better arm than Peyton. His last couple of years he was throwing some ducks but his body was failing him by then. To say he can be better than Big Ben is a big call. I am not willing to go that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Agree with this. I don't think Allen will ever be a precision passer. But then nor has Big Ben ever been. He is accurate enough and has won two Superbowls so you don't have to be Brady, Brees, Manning precise to be accurate enough. You can win a Superbowl without a precision passer. Big Ben is a 64.3% career passer and has had seasons of 68 and 67. He doesn’t seem like the Brady or Brees type but he’s surprisingly accurate. 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: And I never that Manning was incredibly accurate, especially in his later years. What Manning was good at was always knowing or figuring out where the play was and then getting the ball there well, but not with the precision Brees has. I agree, too. Allen will never be like Brees, and I think he can be better than Roethlisberger. I really think it's just learning. He seems to have all the on-field physical skills. He has the arm, he has the moxie, he has the size. He simply has it all. More mobile than Brady or Manning, strongest arm of any of them, ability to move in the pocket and take contact. Best ball carrier of all of them. Physical skills isn't the problem. The challenge for Allen is to master the game off the field and learn to process information on field accurately and quickly. Ben and Peyton and Brady and Brees all have that. Allen has shown over two years that he's learning it. The question is will he continue to learn, year after year, like those guys did? And if he doesn't, how much better is he going to get before he plateaus? Better than Big Ben??? Glad to see people are still having lots drinks this Easter!!! is there one sort of evidence that Allen can be better than Big Ben other than blind homerism? I actually love that you brought up Big Ben. He did what I wanted Allen to do in college - dominate. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ben-roethlisberger-1.html And most people will tell you the Mac is a better conference than the MWC. this has always been my problem with Allen and all the excuse makers. He has never been a dominant player on any level. He will make spectacular plays, for quarters and occasionally halves. But now we are expecting him to be a consistently great player in the nfl. It’s a huge risk imo. Luckily, the defense is so good that a good game manager can win us a lot of games. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 6 hours ago, GoBills808 said: College stats lmfao This country has become so cult like lately. There are so many idiots in power and no matter how much evidence is presented that they are idiots, their cult continues to make excuses. I love the Bills more than I rationally should. However, I’m not going to be in a cult for Allen. dude has shown he is a nfl qb. But there is plenty of solid evidence that points to real questions if he Can be a true franchise guy. But to the cult members who dismiss any shred of non Josh Allen is the best evidence is kinda wild. But happy Easter! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: This country has become so cult like lately. There are so many idiots in power and no matter how much evidence is presented that they are idiots, their cult continues to make excuses. I love the Bills more than I rationally should. However, I’m not going to be in a cult for Allen. dude has shown he is a nfl qb. But there is plenty of solid evidence that points to real questions if he Can be a true franchise guy. But to the cult members who dismiss any shred of non Josh Allen is the best evidence is kinda wild. But happy Easter! You think college off target throw percentage is ‘solid evidence’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeBreton Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) delete Edited April 13, 2020 by CapeBreton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: You think college off target throw percentage is ‘solid evidence’ I think it’s more evidence of his not being the most accurate passer. And it was in the MWC not the SEC. I just don’t why some of you are so quick to dismiss all the statistics that show he isn’t the most accurate passer. I would love to see this board would judge him and Darnold if they switched teams. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think it’s more evidence of his not being the most accurate passer. And it was in the MWC not the SEC. I just don’t why some of you are so quick to dismiss all the statistics that show he isn’t the most accurate passer. I would love to see this board would judge him and Darnold if they switched teams. Just so I have this right: you want to use Allen’s college off target throw percentage as ‘solid evidence’...and I’m the one with the cult mentality. Are you being serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think it’s more evidence of his not being the most accurate passer. And it was in the MWC not the SEC. I just don’t why some of you are so quick to dismiss all the statistics that show he isn’t the most accurate passer. I would love to see this board would judge him and Darnold if they switched teams. If Allen was a Jet and pulled that lateral BS in a playoff game, it’d be right up there with the Butt Fumble and Geno’s behind the back play in Bills land. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think it’s more evidence of his not being the most accurate passer. And it was in the MWC not the SEC. I just don’t why some of you are so quick to dismiss all the statistics that show he isn’t the most accurate passer. I would love to see this board would judge him and Darnold if they switched teams. If I were a Jets fan I'd say the Bills have the better QB because despite Allen being a "project," he had a far better TD:INT ratio, is a dual threat QB, and led his team to the playoffs with several 4th quarter comebacks. About all I could point to with Darnold is that his completion percentage is higher (but still under 60% for his career). 18 minutes ago, FireChans said: If Allen was a Jet and pulled that lateral BS in a playoff game, it’d be right up there with the Butt Fumble and Geno’s behind the back play in Bills land. Nothing will be up there with the Butt Fumble. That one is in a league all its own. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 On 4/11/2020 at 8:54 PM, JaCrispy said: Mostly inaccurate throws, but I noticed that he wasn’t stepping into those throws- and was short arming most of them...when he side arms the throws you notice they tend to sail high... Clean up the mechanics and more consistency will follow imo... +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 hours ago, GoBills808 said: You think college off target throw percentage is ‘solid evidence’ Very 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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