Albany,n.y. Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: Minor league football would only work during something closer to football season imo... Wednesday nights from November til the title game in early March... Something like that when people are in football mode... I love football but spring just isn't football season The UFL lasted 3 seasons & part of a 4th, a lot longer than the AAF & XFL-each could not complete even 1 season. I went to 1 game in Hartford on Thursday night 11/12/09. The NY Sentinels played a game in Hartford & even though they claimed the attendance was 5,201, I was counting the people in the stands & got between 1,500 & a little less than 2,000 allowing for people in bathrooms & at concession stands at the high end. It was pretty easy to count because most of the people were at the 1st level around midfield & I was able to calculate the total seats in the 2 sections and just subtract the empty seats. The rest of the scattered attendance was easy to count on a person by person basis. I also took pictures of every section of the stadium in the 1st half and verified my count after I got home the following afternoon. The next morning I got a copy of the Hartford Courant newspaper beforeI went home & after I got home I got into an e-mail argument with the guy who wrote the column on the game because he said the attendance was 5,201 & I e-mailed him asking him why he didn't mention the attendance was a false figure. At one point he said I couldn't know it wasn't 5,201 & I told him I had counted and taken photos & I could send the photos to him & he could count them himself, but I never got to the point of sending him a bunch of e-mails, as the files were too big to send in 1 e-mail (I tried in my 1st e-mail to attach the photos & the e-mail got rejected as too large from my provider) After that attendance fiasco, the UFL moved the team to Hartford for the 2010 season & played 4 home games as the Hartford Colonials. The attendance for each of the 4 games was announced as around 14,000, but I can't believe it was anywhere near that based on the low turnout of the game I attended & the fake attendance announced at that game. The Colonials suspended operations for the 2011 season & never played another game after 2010. 6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: They had fans. And their ratings were right in line of expectations. It was working well enough for another season if not for the Corona-cooties. No point planning for 2021 yet but I expect them back in 2022...assuming he economy isn't collapsed by then. They're never coming back, well at least not until the 2039 season based on their having a season once every 19 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 5 hours ago, Irv said: No. He got attacked by those dudes in Chicago. Gonna be out for a while. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Turtle Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 On 4/10/2020 at 2:55 PM, Happy Gilmore said: This is too bad, I wanted to see the XFL succeed. At the very least, it would have become a minor league for the NFL where borderline NFL caliber players could play. IMO, the NFL needs something like this as college is not doing anything to prep these young guys for the pros and there is no where else for borderline pro players to learn and get better, aside from the practice squads. I don't believe the XFL was ever in competition with the NFL, otherwise the season would have coincided, which would have been dumb for the XFL to even attempt. College football is the greatest feeder league in all sports. No minor league can match college football's coaching, facilities, or coverage. 99.999% of all NFL All-Pros and Hall-of-Famers played college football. Funding a pro league to develop 'borderline' players is an incredible waste of money. The NFL figured this out years ago, and that's why they had no interest in investing any resources in any of these expensive and foolish start-up leagues. The NFL is more than happy with the NCAAF as their 'minor' league. They will never invest in their own minor league. Any hope that a start up league has of becoming a feeder league is just delusional fantasy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Perry Turtle said: The NFL is more than happy with the NCAAF as their 'minor' league. They will never invest in their own minor league. Any hope that a start up league has of becoming a feeder league is just delusional fantasy Looking like this is the case. NFL Europe and now XFL down the tubes. One thing though, relying on the NCAA as the only feeder program, the NFL has to take what the NCAA gives them. For example, there seems to be fewer drop back, pocket passer QBs and more spread offense QBs, so offenses are going to have to adjust when taking a QB like Lamar Jackson; Baltimore was smart in adjusting their offense rather than trying to make Lamar become a pocket passer. Going forward, I think teams will have to either mortgage several picks or trades to move up and draft the few good traditional-type QBs, or adjust their offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 On 4/11/2020 at 10:11 PM, PromoTheRobot said: Except he wasn't the President. Oliver Luck was. Whaley was head of personnel. They debuted around 3 million viewers, fell by half but leveled off. So hows that compare to a typical NFL weekend say in October? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 8 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: So hows that compare to a typical NFL weekend say in October? Well a quick search showed that week 7 of last year the late second game of NO/Chi drew 23.1 million viewers for a 13.3 share on Fox. The 2 early Sunday games drew and average of 12 million for a >7.5 share. Heck even college games like LSU/Florida on ESPN on Saturday drew a 6.5 share - so about 10 million viewer - beating things like the MLB post season game 1 of the ALCS on a major network (Fox). So based on my reckoning- a typical Sunday afternoon game draws about 23 times the viewers of the XFL and less important early games draw a minimum of 10X the viewers. The “special” games - Monday, Thursday, and Sunday night all draw similar to the late double header games or slightly less. Hence why the NFL has a huge TV contract and the XFL got nothing from TV. These numbers are why the NFL is king. You see huge numbers of viewers and even competing against MLB playoffs - the NFL blows it out of the water with many Sunday World Series games drawing 2.0 shares versus 13 shares for a regular season Sunday night game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: So hows that compare to a typical NFL weekend say in October? Rather than compare the XFL to the NFL, compare it to what else is on February. For example, here are the ratings for all sports on TV on February 24 through March 1. http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekly-sports-tv-ratings-2-24-3-1-2020.html. The Seattle/St.Louis XFL game was the 10th best in % of households (1.11). The highest rated show was a NASCAR race at 2.9%. Mind you this was the point where XFL ratings had fallen off, but it was still in the Top 10 of all games shown that week The last week of all sports on TV. An XFL game still in top 10. The NHL would kill for XFL ratings. http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekly-sports-tv-ratings-3-2-3-8-2020.html Week one of XFL. #2 and #3 rated game. http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekly-sports-tv-ratings-2-3-2-9-2020.html So understand the so-called ratings collapse of the XFL, it went from being the #2 rated event of the week to the #10 rated event. It still had higher ratings than pretty much every NHL and college basketball game. Edited April 13, 2020 by PromoTheRobot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Rather than compare the XFL to the NFL, compare it to what else is on February. For example, here are the ratings for all sports on TV on February 24 through March 1. http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekly-sports-tv-ratings-2-24-3-1-2020.html. The Seattle/St.Louis XFL game was the 10th best in % of households (1.11). The highest rated show was a NASCAR race at 2.9%. Mind you this was the point where XFL ratings had fallen off, but it was still in the Top 10 of all games shown that week The last week of all sports on TV. An XFL game still in top 10. The NHL would kill for XFL ratings. http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekly-sports-tv-ratings-3-2-3-8-2020.html Week one of XFL. #2 and #3 rated game. http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekly-sports-tv-ratings-2-3-2-9-2020.html So understand the so-called ratings collapse of the XFL, it went from being the #2 rated event of the week to the #10 rated event. It still had higher ratings than pretty much every NHL and college basketball game. Yes it was a top ratings gather at a time nothing is on. The issue is production costs versus revenue generated. Does being a top 10 event in February with a 1.1 rating and under a million viewers in the coveted 18-49 demographic equate to the networks being able to cover the cost of a huge crew going to these games to produce the product? My understanding is the revenue generated from those ratings are just in line with covering the production cost and although weeks 4 and 5 had settled to a consistent level - the next week was going to be start of March Madness - which would most likely push them even further down since they were on par with the top weekend college basketball games with little on the line. The money bet on March Madness would drive those numbers up and the XFL would fall a bit more. The XFL needed to do better or it was not going to get a money making deal from the networks. As it was - the XFL got a great deal compared to the AAF because Vince sold the rights to the #2 rated show (WWE) to Fox to hasten the XFL deal. I just do not see where the XFL was going to get a deal that made them money and in that case - the league had a 2 year window based on what Vince pulled out of stock. I enjoyed some games, but most games I would watch a few minutes while doing other things it just did not keep me engaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Yes it was a top ratings gather at a time nothing is on. The issue is production costs versus revenue generated. Does being a top 10 event in February with a 1.1 rating and under a million viewers in the coveted 18-49 demographic equate to the networks being able to cover the cost of a huge crew going to these games to produce the product? My understanding is the revenue generated from those ratings are just in line with covering the production cost and although weeks 4 and 5 had settled to a consistent level - the next week was going to be start of March Madness - which would most likely push them even further down since they were on par with the top weekend college basketball games with little on the line. The money bet on March Madness would drive those numbers up and the XFL would fall a bit more. The XFL needed to do better or it was not going to get a money making deal from the networks. As it was - the XFL got a great deal compared to the AAF because Vince sold the rights to the #2 rated show (WWE) to Fox to hasten the XFL deal. I just do not see where the XFL was going to get a deal that made them money and in that case - the league had a 2 year window based on what Vince pulled out of stock. I enjoyed some games, but most games I would watch a few minutes while doing other things it just did not keep me engaged. Was it any more expensive to produce than your typical NHL game that gets ¼ of the ratings? Vince McMahon is a smart man. The XFL's ratings were in line of expectations when he committed to funding the league for 3 seasons. The Coronavirus outbreak took everyone by surprise. There is simply too much uncertainty for Vince to carry on at this point. But I don't believe he's done. Edited April 13, 2020 by PromoTheRobot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Was it any more expensive to produce than your typical NHL game that gets ¼ of the ratings? Vince McMahon is a smart man. The XFL's ratings were in line of expectations when he committed to funding the league for 3 seasons. The Coronavirus outbreak took everyone by surprise. There is simply too much uncertainty for Vince to carry on at this point. But I don't believe he's done. My understanding is that a typical football game production crew is 2-3+ times larger than an NHL crew. Many more camera, sound, and graphics people to get shots and sounds lined up. More people in the truck looking at more feeds and cameras. There is more downtime and more info that has to be constantly updated - down, distance, score, time, quarter, players stats and bios. The amount of info is huge compared to an NHL game. Vince is a smart man and yes the ratings were in line or even above many predictions, but it did not sound like they were high enough that he was going to get a TV deal that paid him money to allow the league to break even or show a profit. He was funding the league at a large expected lost - hoping/planning that the numbers would allow the TV deal to come and cover the costs by year 3. The ratings are why the NHL struggles - the playoffs is where it makes it money. The only reason the NHL has a TV deal to begin with is that allowed the FSN regional channels to have something to broadcast. NBC loses money on the NHL during the regular season. I also expect the XFL to make a comeback - a bit smaller in the future and more likely a few more tweaks because it needs to drive viewers, but I do not think it is going to be a long term viable league unless it gets some support elsewhere with better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 23 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: What? he looks like the convict Jesse Smollett loser from Chicago of the Nigerians beat me up and put a noose on my neck scam fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 .........Dallas Renegades coach Bob Stoops is owed $1.083 million...ouch...…... XFL files for bankruptcy, with Bob Stoops among largest creditors Posted by Charean Williams on April 13, 2020, 3:56 PM EDT The XFL confirmed it filed for bankruptcy Monday. “The XFL quickly captured the hearts and imaginations of millions of people who love football,” the spring league said. “Unfortunately, as a new enterprise, we were not insulated from the harsh economic impacts and uncertainties caused by the COVID-19 crisis. Accordingly, we have filed a voluntary petition for relief under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. This is a heartbreaking time for many, including our passionate fans, players and staff, and we are thankful to them, our television partners, and the many Americans who rallied to the XFL for the love of football.” The league laid off all its employees and suspended operations Friday. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/13/xfl-files-for-bankruptcy-with-bob-stoops-among-largest-creditors/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptide Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 I just don't get why the NFL hasent figured this out yet. Have a minor league NFL, play in the same stadiums as regular NFL teams, wear the same or similar uniforms, and play the games 2 months before camp. It'd make money and be good for the players and NFL clubs, and Ofcourse the fans. This is a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 28 minutes ago, Steptide said: I just don't get why the NFL hasent figured this out yet. Have a minor league NFL, play in the same stadiums as regular NFL teams, wear the same or similar uniforms, and play the games 2 months before camp. It'd make money and be good for the players and NFL clubs, and Ofcourse the fans. This is a no brainer. ....doubtful that their Owners could afford to fund a minor league (COUGH)....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, Steptide said: I just don't get why the NFL hasent figured this out yet. Have a minor league NFL, play in the same stadiums as regular NFL teams, wear the same or similar uniforms, and play the games 2 months before camp. It'd make money and be good for the players and NFL clubs, and Ofcourse the fans. This is a no brainer. 4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....doubtful that their Owners could afford to fund a minor league (COUGH)....... Part of the reason is liability. They don't need even more players suing them over CTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, PromoTheRobot said: Part of the reason is liability. They don't need even more players suing them over CTE. .....exactly........besides they have a cash cow niche now, so why gamble?......wouldn't developmental players in a minor league potentially lead to expanded rosters and another expense?....Owners are in their "cash comfort zone" without a minor league, letting the NCAA be it IMO........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 What a shame. It was fun football. No more spring football. Who's to blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogham26 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 too bad i think they had something there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Steptide said: I just don't get why the NFL hasent figured this out yet. Have a minor league NFL, play in the same stadiums as regular NFL teams, wear the same or similar uniforms, and play the games 2 months before camp. It'd make money and be good for the players and NFL clubs, and Ofcourse the fans. This is a no brainer. I don't get why anyone at this point hasn't figured out that the NFL doesn't need a "minor league". It's amazing people still ignore that the NCAA suits the needs of the NFL and has for generations--to the point that it doesn't need these minor leagues. The NFL owners see these leagues put up tons of money and immediately flame out-----and they are gong to want a taste of that?? It defies all logic....yet people here cannot except this reality. It's so weird. Anyway, March Madness would have buried this joke of a vanity project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Steptide said: I just don't get why the NFL hasent figured this out yet. Have a minor league NFL, play in the same stadiums as regular NFL teams, wear the same or similar uniforms, and play the games 2 months before camp. It'd make money and be good for the players and NFL clubs, and Ofcourse the fans. This is a no brainer. Why bother when the NCAA supplies that service at no cost to the NFL? Edited April 13, 2020 by Don Otreply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts