bradin cooks vs stefon Digs

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, dbfla10 said:

statistically these two are very similar. Who has the more value... Bills gave up a lot for diggs, Texans only a second rounder for cooks. I like Diggs better as a player, but knowing a 2nd rounder would've got Cooks, i'd rather the 2nd for Cooks and see what the 1st rounder would land the Bills.

considering you can’t spell either of their names, I’m gonna go ahead and say you don’t know what you’re talking about. Next

[Beast]

2 hours ago, dbfla10 said:

statistically these two are very similar. Who has the more value... Bills gave up a lot for diggs, Texans only a second rounder for cooks. I like Diggs better as a player, but knowing a 2nd rounder would've got Cooks, i'd rather the 2nd for Cooks and see what the 1st rounder would land the Bills.

 

Just a horrible take.

 

Horrible.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You are right he wasn't the number 1 option in Minnesota he was 1B and Thielen was 1A. But Diggs is more talented than Thielen. The knock on him, and it is a fair knock, is that he is less consistent. But if you want to base your opinions on the opinions of NFL coaches.... go watch the film when Thielen and Diggs are on the field together and study who sees the majority of double coverage in those scenarios. It isn't Thielen. Thielen's production will fall this year. Book it. Diggs will be right in that 1100-1200 yards range again with the Bills.

Good post Gunner and hope this is just friendly debate. But I’m starting to hate the word talent.  What does it even mean in the nfl?  So many talent guys do nothing in the league.  I’m not sure if you were here for the awful D’Rick hogan debates.  But so many people wanted to keep D’Rick over Hogan because he was more talented.  Well Hogan just produced.  As a result, Hogan had a solid if unspectacular nfl career and D’Rick did nothing.   Theilen wasn’t drafted and doesn’t have the physical skills.  But when it is time for games, he produces.  
 

as for Diggs, I don’t think he is a true number 1.  But he is very good and we have a very good trio of receivers.  I think they definitely need size though.  I also worry if Diggs will be fine if he doesn’t put up big numbers here.  What a number 1 receiver does is draw coverage and open up the passing: running games for other players.  It’s why a guy like Julio’s numbers don’t do him justice.  He gets tripled teams at times.  

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, dbfla10 said:

"BY FAR" is a stretch. Look at their stats, they are nearly identical... I agree I like Diggs better, but the Bills definitely over paid.

 

Did they? They are getting a young guy who is in his prime at 26 on a half price contract for basically the 18th pick in the draft if you add the pick values up. That isn't outrageous at all. It's fair value.

 

 Johnson and Cooks are in their 30s and will likely see some level of decline over the next few years.

 

And no offense but when Houston is the team being compared to in trades it almost doesn't count.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by matter2003

[Augie]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Diggs QBs

Bridgewater

Bradford

Keenum

Cousins - Traded from Team

 

Cooks  QBs

Brees - Traded from team

Brady - Traded from team

Goff - Traded from team

 

Plus.....Bill Belichick (starving for WR’s) and Sean Payton decided to ship him off. Two guys who know a little something about football. That might tell you something.  

[ngbills]

If this was the opposite:

 

Say for example the Jets traded a 1st for Diggs; Bills Traded 2nd for Cooks.

 

What would people on this board be saying? My guess is it would be how great Cooks is and what a steal we got vs what the Jets paid for Diggs. We would see all the positive Cooks vs Diggs comparisons that show Cooks putting up better numbers. 

 

The Bills desperately needed a WR. Was a 1st for Diggs the best move? Could they have got Hopkins or Cooks for less and also drafted one of the top WR's in the draft? Who knows. In the end it wont matter as long as the team wins. They win no one even talks about Cooks costing a first. But if they do not win, it will be how much they gave up for Diggs, what the WR's in the draft that we could have had do, what Cooks does, etc. 

 

7 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Did they? They are getting a young guy who is in his prime at 26 on a half price contract for basically the 18th pick in the draft if you add the pick values up. That isn't outrageous at all. It's fair value.

 

 Johnson and Cooks are in their 30s and will likely see some level of decline over the next few years.

 

And no offense but when Houston is the team being compared to in trades it almost doesn't count.

 

Cooks is the same age as Diggs. 

 

Diggs at $11-12M is half price? I am sorry what has he done to be a $25M a year receiver? That would make him far and away the highest paid WR in the league. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by ngbills

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good post Gunner and hope this is just friendly debate. But I’m starting to hate the word talent.  What does it even mean in the nfl?  So many talent guys do nothing in the league.  I’m not sure if you were here for the awful D’Rick hogan debates.  But so many people wanted to keep D’Rick over Hogan because he was more talented.  Well Hogan just produced.  As a result, Hogan had a solid if unspectacular nfl career and D’Rick did nothing.   Theilen wasn’t drafted and doesn’t have the physical skills.  But when it is time for games, he produces.  
 

as for Diggs, I don’t think he is a true number 1.  But he is very good and we have a very good trio of receivers.  I think they definitely need size though.  I also worry if Diggs will be fine if he doesn’t put up big numbers here.  What a number 1 receiver does is draw coverage and open up the passing: running games for other players.  It’s why a guy like Julio’s numbers don’t do him justice.  He gets tripled teams at times.  

 

Of course it is only friendly debate C. No beef here whatsoever. I was around for the Rodgers v Hogan debates and I was firmly #teamHogan and not just because his eyes are dreamy. I am not knocking Thielen either. The dude is a great player. He is so consistent he is almost Belichickian in the way he just does his job every play. I just think he has benefitted from the amount of doubling Diggs gets - partly because if you want to just play pure man on Diggs at the line the chances are within half a second of the snap your DB has lost. He is just so good in those first few steps. If you look just at release and route running he is elite. Like top 2 or 3 in the league good. I think overall he is just inside the top 10, and yes, he is only 5'11/6'0 he isn't going to be that jump ball monster that isn't his game. I think by the end of the year if Diggs stays healthy you will have changed you tune on not believing he is a true #1. Diggs seeing double coverage here will not be new to him. He saw plenty of it in Minnesota too. Will he get frustrated if he doesn't get the ball? Hell yes. Will he demand a level of excellence from those around him that is higher than anything we had from within the offensive personnel last year? Definitely.

3 minutes ago, ngbills said:

If this was the opposite:

 

Say for example the Jets traded a 1st for Diggs; Bills Traded 2nd for Cooks.

 

What would people on this board be saying? My guess is it would be how great Cooks is and what a steal we got vs what the Jets paid for Diggs. We would see all the positive Cooks vs Diggs comparisons that show Cooks putting up better numbers. 

 

My guess is for the consensus on the board you are right. This place likes to see the positive side and that is fine, it is a fan board after all. But for my part I'd still be saying what I am saying now and I would be gutted that the Jets had the guy we should have had.

[Virgil]

You might wanted to get tested

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

28 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Like I don’t even what you’re talking about.  All i said was Cooks was a former 1st round pick, who is super talented.  He had 4 1,000 yard seasons and some nfl people (not experts like Happy Days but still) like Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, and SeaN McVay invested 1st round picks in him. But those guys are dumb and obviously they did it because he’s wasn’t super talented.  Good point.

 

and Diggs wasn’t even the number one in Minnesota.  At best, he was 1B.  A very good player , our best receiver, and will really help the offense.  But for a guy with 2 1,000 yard seasons, he’s become Jerry Rice since the Bills acquired him. 

John, what you just said is literally the same thing you could say about the Diggs trade.  Why would Minnesota, a team with SB talent, trade a 26 year old really good receiver?  
 

and Cousins had 4,300 yards and 30 tds the year before.  

 

The Trades all had to do with money.  NO didn't want to pay the 5th year option so they traded him before they had to choose.  NE picked it up.  NE didn't want to pay him what he wanted on an extension.  So they traded him.  It's not like he wasn't good and thats why he was traded.  

 

However 4 years of brees and brady do make for some nice numbers no?  

[njbuff]

I think Bradin Digs is a helluva player.

[BuffaloBills1998]

2 hours ago, dbfla10 said:

statistically these two are very similar. Who has the more value... Bills gave up a lot for diggs, Texans only a second rounder for cooks. I like Diggs better as a player, but knowing a 2nd rounder would've got Cooks, i'd rather the 2nd for Cooks and see what the 1st rounder would land the Bills.

So you’re telling me that you’d rather take a chance on a player that’s been traded multiple times Due to inconsistency and major injury problems Over Diggs?? This is one of the silliest post I’ve ever read. Diggs is a true number 1 WR and a proven veteran. Cooks is pretty much a poor mans John Brown

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

So you’re telling me that you’d rather take a chance on a player that’s been traded multiple times Due to inconsistency and major injury problems Over Diggs?? This is one of the silliest post I’ve ever read. Diggs is a true number 1 WR and a proven veteran. Cooks is pretty much a poor mans John Brown

 

He was traded because NO didn't want to pay him with Michael Thomas proving better as a rookie.  NE traded him because while his numbers were good there, I dont think they wanted to pay him that contract that the rams did.  It kinda worked out for them as they basically rented a 1st round pick and got it back a year later.  

 

The thing that matters here is - he got a concussion in the super bowl in 2017.  He also missed time in 2019 with a concussion - and had a career worst year.  So there is a serious injury concern.  HOWEVER... They got a 2nd round pick for him coming off a season that was worse than Zay Jones year 2.  

 

I think for the talent - a 2nd round pick is a steal.  But he was recently injured last year, and generally sucked.  So in that way you're like did you overpay?  It's a bit undecided. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by dneveu

[JustWinPlease]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

no they didn't....we had extra 5th and 6th round picks and next years 4th is not a worry. We gave up 22nd pick for Diggs

What was the 4th, 5th and 6th for then?

28 minutes ago, ngbills said:

If this was the opposite:

 

Say for example the Jets traded a 1st for Diggs; Bills Traded 2nd for Cooks.

 

What would people on this board be saying? My guess is it would be how great Cooks is and what a steal we got vs what the Jets paid for Diggs. We would see all the positive Cooks vs Diggs comparisons that show Cooks putting up better numbers. 

 

The Bills desperately needed a WR. Was a 1st for Diggs the best move? Could they have got Hopkins or Cooks for less and also drafted one of the top WR's in the draft? Who knows. In the end it wont matter as long as the team wins. They win no one even talks about Cooks costing a first. But if they do not win, it will be how much they gave up for Diggs, what the WR's in the draft that we could have had do, what Cooks does, etc. 

 

Cooks is the same age as Diggs. 

 

Diggs at $11-12M is half price? I am sorry what has he done to be a $25M a year receiver? That would make him far and away the highest paid WR in the league. 

Preach.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, dbfla10 said:

"BY FAR" is a stretch. Look at their stats, they are nearly identical... I agree I like Diggs better, but the Bills definitely over paid.

 

This over paid stuff is getting out of control.  We did not overpay.  Diggs was cheaper than trading up just 4 places in the draft to get a WR. 

 

We landed a bonafide top 10, maybe top 5 WR in the NFL who literally leads all WRs in contested catches since 2017, is the top deep threat in the league and an elite route runner.  

 

We gave up some extra scrap picks that we picked up from trading some bad players away last year (Beane is a wizard) and still have ALL of our remaining picks in this draft outside the first we used essentially on Diggs.  

 

Furthermore, Diggs contract is substantially better even though he is a much better player.  The main additional cost was next years 4th, which is equivalent in value to a 5th this year.  

 

Players taken in the 4th, 5th, and 6th rounds are most often guys for depth and ST.  Sure, decent starters and even great players are found there, but the odds of that are low in comparison.  We essentially threw in some low round picks to guarantee the WR we added to our team with a first round pick was a stud.  

 

Never have I seen so many people concerned with a few scrap picks when those picks landed us an elite player.  

 

More importantly...Beane was NEVER going to use all those picks to draft players.  We dont have enough open roster spots and was always going to use them as leverage to get a big trade for a veteran player or move around the draft.  So we didnt lose anything here, Beane used his extra capital to get a stud instead of an unknown.  

[nucci]

10 minutes ago, JustWinPlease said:

What was the 4th, 5th and 6th for then?

 

Since we had an extra 5th and 6th I don't think it was a big cost. The 4th is worth something but I think Diggs was worth so I don't think they overpaid

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Like I don’t even what you’re talking about.  All i said was Cooks was a former 1st round pick, who is super talented.  He had 4 1,000 yard seasons and some nfl people (not experts like Happy Days but still) like Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, and SeaN McVay invested 1st round picks in him. But those guys are dumb and obviously they did it because he’s wasn’t super talented.  Good point.

 

and Diggs wasn’t even the number one in Minnesota.  At best, he was 1B.  A very good player , our best receiver, and will really help the offense.  But for a guy with 2 1,000 yard seasons, he’s become Jerry Rice since the Bills acquired him. 

John, what you just said is literally the same thing you could say about the Diggs trade.  Why would Minnesota, a team with SB talent, trade a 26 year old really good receiver?  
 

and Cousins had 4,300 yards and 30 tds the year before.  

Cuz they are stupid?

[Alphadawg7]

47 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good post Gunner and hope this is just friendly debate. But I’m starting to hate the word talent.  What does it even mean in the nfl?  So many talent guys do nothing in the league.  I’m not sure if you were here for the awful D’Rick hogan debates.  But so many people wanted to keep D’Rick over Hogan because he was more talented.  Well Hogan just produced.  As a result, Hogan had a solid if unspectacular nfl career and D’Rick did nothing.   Theilen wasn’t drafted and doesn’t have the physical skills.  But when it is time for games, he produces.  
 

as for Diggs, I don’t think he is a true number 1.  But he is very good and we have a very good trio of receivers.  I think they definitely need size though.  I also worry if Diggs will be fine if he doesn’t put up big numbers here.  What a number 1 receiver does is draw coverage and open up the passing: running games for other players.  It’s why a guy like Julio’s numbers don’t do him justice.  He gets tripled teams at times.  

 

When either Diggs or Thielen was not playing...

 

Diggs excelled.  Thielien wasn't as productive. 

 

For me, Diggs is more talented and the better player with Theilens production being helped a lot by Diggs drawing the better coverage.  This year, I would bet money that Diggs out produces Thielen assuming they play the same amount of games.  Dont get me wrong, I like Thielen a lot but he just isn't as good as Diggs in most key areas.  Diggs is a better route runner, has faster feet, better deep threat, and better at contested catches.  

[Codyny13]

3 hours ago, dbfla10 said:

"BY FAR" is a stretch. Look at their stats, they are nearly identical... I agree I like Diggs better, but the Bills definitely over paid.

Use the draft chart to determine the amount of draft points the 4th, 5th and 6th round picks equate to. Those points will tell you how far you’d be able to move up the draft board. Using Beane’s logic that he’d only be interested in 1 of the top 2 receivers, you’ll be able to see how far the draft point capital would allow you to move up from pick 22. Seems as most ppl have said this would be pick 18, do you still think it’s overpaying? On top of the that, we had multiple picks in those rounds. The idea of collecting Excess draft capital is to be able to parlay them into quality players.  We did just that.

[MJS]

Cooks has played one more year and has about 1,000 more yards and 4 more TD's than Diggs. I think the big difference, though, is the QB's throwing to them.

 

Stats, in this instance, don't tell the whole story. Diggs, for instance, is a beast at contested catches. Not sure how Cooks ranks in that category, but Diggs is one of the best, if not THE best, in the league in that category.

[CSBill]

Why has the thread gone four pages?