bradin cooks vs stefon Digs

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Just Joshin' said:

Diggs was and should be the choice.  I am sure Beane kicked the tires with the Rams.

 

Cooks is a tease.  He has what you want in a WR and at times, play that way.  But he is inconsistent, injury prone and does not come up big when required.  This is why he keeps being traded.  When 3 teams who are prime passing teams give up on a WR, it is a hint that there is something wrong.

But it’s not like they are giving them away.  3 1sts and a 2nd.  That is monster value.  

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

But it’s not like they are giving them away.  3 1sts and a 2nd.  That is monster value.  

 

Also shows we did not overpay for Diggs when looking at the true historical market, and not just Crazy BOB and his 1 spiteful trade.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Not when comparing individual players on very different teams, with very different schemes. I'd venture to say judging a WR on wins alone is dumber than using stats alone. Using W's as the sole criterion should be reserved for individual sports.

 

Good analysis is typically a multi-factor process. But you know that. 

I could think of nothing dumber than judging a receiver on wins.  It’s the most dependent position in sports.  By that awful logic, Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald are worse than Julian Edelman.  That is insanely dumb. 

[HappyDays]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

I could think of nothing dumber than judging a receiver on wins

 

How about judging a receiver on draft round? That would have to be up there.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Also shows we did not overpay for Diggs when looking at the true historical market, and not just Crazy BOB and his 1 spiteful trade.

Personally, I Think only a few wrs are worth 1st rounders and Hopkins is the only one I think was worth it.  It’s such a dependent position but it certainly isn’t a crazy overpay.  

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

How about judging a receiver on draft round? That would have to be up there.

Yeah, who said that?  Or was your reading Comprehension affect by the virus?  Saying a former first rounder who has 4 1,000 yard seasons is about as talented as Diggs (who has 2) is 100% right.  Diggs has been much more healthy than Cooks and thus, he gets the edge.  Where is the problem?

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Personally, I Think only a few wrs are worth 1st rounders and Hopkins is the only one I think was worth it.  It’s such a dependent position but it certainly isn’t a crazy overpay.  

 

Hopkins is worth a top-10 1st rounder. We had the 22nd. Huge difference when it comes to value in those picks.

 

Given the talent you find in the back of the round, I'd say anything higher than 20th overall is fair value for Diggs. JMO

[Rico]

7 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Not when comparing individual players on very different teams, with very different schemes. I'd venture to say judging a WR on wins alone is dumber than using stats alone. Using W's as the sole criterion should be reserved for individual sports.

 

Good analysis is typically a multi-factor process. But you know that. 

Well, I would not be using any stats at all to compare WRs,  including W's. I would only trust what I saw on the field. If you didn't know that, now you do.

[YoloinOhio]

ThisThread title - cmon man at least spell their names right 

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So you think Belichick, Payton, McVay, and O’Brien (not a solid OC) are just giving you high picks for the guy for no reason?  He’s super talented.  In some ways, him and Diggs are extremely similar.  I would give the edge to Diggs but they are both are 1B/ super high end #2s.  Cooks’ injury stuff is very real. 

 

No I think they are giving high picks because Cooks is a talented football player. But he isn't even close to Diggs in terms of release and route running (indeed allegedly his route running was a reason the Patriots moved on), his hands aren't as good as Diggs's and he isn't as physical. I don't think Diggs is a 1B. I think Diggs is a number 1 receiver. Cooks is a 1B/ high end #2. It isn't a knock on Cooks, he is a top 25 receiver in the NFL. Diggs is borderline top 10.

[Fr. Jerk]

Who is Bradin Cooks?

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, The Jerk said:

I dig Diggs, ya dig?

 

I dig. You dig.

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, who said that?

 

32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Cooks was a first round pick.  He’s super talented.

 

I don't know, man. This is a weird crusade. No one in the NFL thinks Diggs and Cooks are the same talent level. Cooks is somewhere in between Brown and Diggs. Good player. Not a #1 like Diggs is.

[C.Biscuit97]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Hopkins is worth a top-10 1st rounder. We had the 22nd. Huge difference when it comes to value in those picks.

 

Given the talent you find in the back of the round, I'd say anything higher than 20th overall is fair value for Diggs. JMO

It’s interesting for sure and I’m not mad at all about it.  If Diggs helps Allen take the next step as a passer and we finally see a good Bills offense, it will be worth it.  The flip side is that we could in theory drafted the next Jerry Rice but obviously that’s has a bunch of risk too.  I still want a Claypool or Pittman.  We have the Smurfs right now. But i would be absolutely thrilled if they add some size to the group. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, dbfla10 said:

statistically these two are very similar. Who has the more value... Bills gave up a lot for diggs, Texans only a second rounder for cooks. I like Diggs better as a player, but knowing a 2nd rounder would've got Cooks, i'd rather the 2nd for Cooks and see what the 1st rounder would land the Bills.

Sir do you see how many teams Cooks has been on?

 

There is a reason for that.....teams dont just let good wr talent go to other teams if they can help it

1 hour ago, dbfla10 said:

"BY FAR" is a stretch. Look at their stats, they are nearly identical... I agree I like Diggs better, but the Bills definitely over paid.

Diggs plays on a run first offense.....I would say take a look at his production based on amount of targets.....that will give you the answer

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

 

I don't know, man. This is a weird crusade. No one in the NFL thinks Diggs and Cooks are the same talent level. Cooks is somewhere in between Brown and Diggs. Good player. Not a #1 like Diggs is.

Like I don’t even what you’re talking about.  All i said was Cooks was a former 1st round pick, who is super talented.  He had 4 1,000 yard seasons and some nfl people (not experts like Happy Days but still) like Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, and SeaN McVay invested 1st round picks in him. But those guys are dumb and obviously they did it because he’s wasn’t super talented.  Good point.

 

and Diggs wasn’t even the number one in Minnesota.  At best, he was 1B.  A very good player , our best receiver, and will really help the offense.  But for a guy with 2 1,000 yard seasons, he’s become Jerry Rice since the Bills acquired him. 

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Sir do you see how many teams Cooks has been on?

 

There is a reason for that.....teams dont just let good wr talent go to other teams if they can help it

Diggs plays on a run first offense.....I would say take a look at his production based on amount of targets.....that will give you the answer

John, what you just said is literally the same thing you could say about the Diggs trade.  Why would Minnesota, a team with SB talent, trade a 26 year old really good receiver?  
 

and Cousins had 4,300 yards and 30 tds the year before.  

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s interesting for sure and I’m not mad at all about it.  If Diggs helps Allen take the next step as a passer and we finally see a good Bills offense, it will be worth it.  The flip side is that we could in theory drafted the next Jerry Rice but obviously that’s has a bunch of risk too.  I still want a Claypool or Pittman.  We have the Smurfs right now. But i would be absolutely thrilled if they add some size to the group. 

 

Even Rice went 16th overall so we'd have no shot at him. Maybe the next Andre Reed in the 4th!

 

Might be able to land one of those WRs in the 3rd, but I'm not opposed to going WR again in the 2nd.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He had 4 1,000 yard seasons and some nfl people (not experts like Happy Days but still) like Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, and SeaN McVay invested 1st round picks in him. But those guys are dumb and obviously they did it because he’s wasn’t super talented

 

And then Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, and Sean McVay all traded him away. But those guys are dumb... yeah I'm gonna go ahead and back out of this one.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Even Rice went 16th overall so we'd have no shot at him. Maybe the next Andre Reed in the 4th!

 

Might be able to land one of those WRs in the 3rd, but I'm not opposed to going WR again in the 2nd.

I really want another pass rusher so if a good one is there in the 2nd, they would be the top choice.  But this offense needs more and we don’t have an established nfl caliber receiver 6’ or bigger.  I think it’s a Pretty big need.  Smaller guys can get taken away sometimes so I would love to have a monster to just have one on one coverage in the red zone.  

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

and Diggs wasn’t even the number one in Minnesota.  At best, he was 1B.  A very good player , our best receiver, and will really help the offense.  But for a guy with 2 1,000 yard seasons, he’s become Jerry Rice since the Bills acquired him. 

 

You are right he wasn't the number 1 option in Minnesota he was 1B and Thielen was 1A. But Diggs is more talented than Thielen. The knock on him, and it is a fair knock, is that he is less consistent. But if you want to base your opinions on the opinions of NFL coaches.... go watch the film when Thielen and Diggs are on the field together and study who sees the majority of double coverage in those scenarios. It isn't Thielen. Thielen's production will fall this year. Book it. Diggs will be right in that 1100-1200 yards range again with the Bills.

 

EDIT: And as for the final point.... I have been telling anyone who will listen Diggs is the best receiver on the Vikings for two seasons. Mine is no damascene conversion simply because the Bills have signed him.

Edited April 10, 2020 by GunnerBill

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

And then Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, and Sean McVay all traded him away. But those guys are dumb... yeah I'm gonna go ahead and back out of this one.

For 1st round picks and a 2nd after concussion problems.  Not super talented guys get traded all other time for multiple 1s and 2s.  Another great point!  You win Happy!  Cooks is clearly not super talented.