The Big Gamble: Hydroxychloroquine

[Doc Brown]

On 5/18/2020 at 5:39 PM, BillStime said:

I can only hope Trump is telling the truth for a change...

 

Interesting.  I don't know if it's Fox News's way to avoid any potential lawsuit with their opinion people pushing this malaria drug or it's because Cavuto beat stage 4 cancer, has MS, and had triple bypass surgery so he's generally alarmed that this may kill people with serious medical conditions who take this without consulting with a doctor.

[Reality Check]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Interesting.  I don't know if it's Fox News's way to avoid any potential lawsuit with their opinion people pushing this malaria drug or it's because Cavuto beat stage 4 cancer, has MS, and had triple bypass surgery so he's generally alarmed that this may kill people with serious medical conditions who take this without consulting with a doctor.

Cavuto cares about one thing, and that is the stock market. 

[Prickly Pete]

I'm wondering what Trump's dosage is. He could easily be taking minuscule doses, but still truthfully claim to be taking it.

 

That said, I am of the opinion that as long as the health care facilities aren't overwhelmed, the lockdown should be moving along quickly.

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Interesting.  I don't know if it's Fox News's way to avoid any potential lawsuit with their opinion people pushing this malaria drug or it's because Cavuto beat stage 4 cancer, has MS, and had triple bypass surgery so he's generally alarmed that this may kill people with serious medical conditions who take this without consulting with a doctor.

Why would anyone do this? Who exactly do you believe is getting their medical advice from Trump and only Trump?

[Chef Jim]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Interesting.  I don't know if it's Fox News's way to avoid any potential lawsuit with their opinion people pushing this malaria drug or it's because Cavuto beat stage 4 cancer, has MS, and had triple bypass surgery so he's generally alarmed that this may kill people with serious medical conditions who take this without consulting with a doctor.

I had no idea he’s gone through all that. He’s a survivor. 

[Doc]

9 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

So you believe HCQ should be taken as a prophylactic measure?  Maybe in a clinical study.   But not on a lark.  Like trump is doing. 

 

I was informed about HCQ from a plastic surgeon I work with 2 months ago.  He's originally from South Africa and hates Trump but heard things from colleagues and others around the world and started taking it prophylactically.  The chief of my department is a Democrat and also hates Trump but on the surgeon's insistence, got some and started taking it.  I did as well but stopped once I got furloughed.  I will be going back to work June 1st and will start taking it again (along with zinc).

Edited May 20, 2020 by Doc

[meazza]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I was informed about HCQ from a plastic surgeon I work with 2 months ago.  He's originally from South Africa and hates Trump but heard things from colleagues and others around the world and started taking it prophylactically.  The chief of my department is a Democrat and also hates Trump but on the surgeon's insistence, got some and started taking it.  I did as well but stopped once I got furloughed.  I will be going back to work June 1st and will start taking it again (along with zinc).

That’s great but you know there are dumb ***** out there that will take anything they hear on tv without thinking twice.

 

That’s why I think it’s irresponsible for him to say that.

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I was informed about HCQ from a plastic surgeon I work with 2 months ago.  He's originally from South Africa and hates Trump but heard things from colleagues and others around the world and started taking it prophylactically.  The chief of my department is a Democrat and also hates Trump but on the surgeon's insistence, got some and started taking it.  I did as well but stopped once I got furloughed.  I will be going back to work June 1st and will start taking it again (along with zinc).

 

"Heard" is the problem that I have with it.  Heard, to me, sounds anecdotal.  And anecdotal use might result in unintended consequences (e.g., a person who might be at greater risk for a known side effect takes HCQ prophylactically and ends up having a heart attack or a stroke or something worse than COVID).   I'm a lawyer, not a scientist, but I believe that things should be done scientifically.  For the average person to whack some of this stuff down prophylactically  flirts with irresponsibility. And for Trump to model it . . . enough said. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

7 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

"Heard" is the problem that I have with it.  Heard, to me, sounds anecdotal.  And anecdotal use might result in unintended consequences (e.g., a person who might be at greater risk for a known side effect takes HCQ prophylactically and ends up having a heart attack or a stroke or something worse than COVID).   I'm a lawyer, not a scientist, but I believe that things should be done scientifically.  For the average person to whack some of this stuff down prophylactically  flirts with irresponsibility. And for Trump to model it . . . enough said. 

So you believe that you know better than Trump's physician? And you believe Trump is irresponsible by following his physician's direction? 

[SectionC3]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

So you believe that you know better than Trump's physician? And you believe Trump is irresponsible by following his physician's direction? 

 

There are some dumb doctors out there.  Google Eugene Gosy.  I know better than that guy, having dealt with him in the past.  I recognize the obvious dangers of opioid addiction.  He did not.  

 

Here, Trump's physician seems to be taking a minority approach to the prophylactic issue, which is especially questionable given that it is a preventative measure for a condition that has not yet arisen, rather than a treatment option for an existing condition.  Frankly, the physician should recommend that Trump also take additional, more conservative precautions, such as practicing social distancing and wearing an appropriate mask.  It's odd that the physician will (apparently) recommend a precaution that increases the risk of heart attack (to my knowledge), but seemingly hasn't pushed Trump to use the aforementioned precautions that do not have potentially deadly side effects.  

 

Short answer: in this instance, Internet message board guy has a better plan that Trump's physician.  For sure. 

[Deranged Rhino]

For those who missed it (and still keep parroting "but the VA study!"...):

Second clip

 

[Joe Miner]

32 minutes ago, meazza said:

That’s great but you know there are dumb ***** out there that will take anything they hear on tv without thinking twice.

 

That’s why I think it’s irresponsible for him to say that.

 

How will these dumb ***** get the medicine to take?

[Doc]

26 minutes ago, meazza said:

That’s great but you know there are dumb ***** out there that will take anything they hear on tv without thinking twice.

 

That’s why I think it’s irresponsible for him to say that.

 

When a person hears about HCQ, the first question would then be: "how do I get some?"  The answer is: "you need to consult a doctor and get a prescription."  What the person decides to do from there (get it legally, get it illegally, steal/borrow it from someone, take fish tank cleaner, etc.) is on him/her. 

 

Now opining about using/injecting disinfectant was something that could have caused problems because they're readily available, but thankfully I haven't heard of anyone doing it.  And outside of that couple that took the fish tank cleaner, which appeared to be a murder, I haven't heard of people taking it and dying from it (again, HCQ, not chloroquine), much less in droves.

 

18 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

"Heard" is the problem that I have with it.  Heard, to me, sounds anecdotal.  And anecdotal use might result in unintended consequences (e.g., a person who might be at greater risk for a known side effect takes HCQ prophylactically and ends up having a heart attack or a stroke or something worse than COVID).   I'm a lawyer, not a scientist, but I believe that things should be done scientifically.  For the average person to whack some of this stuff down prophylactically  flirts with irresponsibility. And for Trump to model it . . . enough said. 

 

Yes there was anecdotal evidence but there is science behind it (zinc inactivates the virus while HCQ facilitates its entry into cells).  In the absence of any treatment at the time, and lack of widely-available treatment currently, it's still something I would take.  Again HCQ is not some new drug.  It has been around for 60+ years and hundreds of millions of people have taken it without a problem.  The histrionics over it are purely partisan and the lengths to slander it and Trump's reasons to push it are sad, but telling.

8 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

For those who missed it (and still keep parroting "but the VA study!"...):

Second clip

 

Shocker!  And was done without zinc.

[Just Joshin']

10 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Short answer: in this instance, Internet message board guy has a better plan that Trump's physician.  For sure. 

This summarizes well the problem in the social networking world we live........someone believes they know more than a doctor.  Yes Doctors can and do make mistakes but I will listen to a doctor versus a message board guy.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

The giveaway is how much effort the establishment media (the same ones who just proved themselves liars -- again -- for three straight years) are putting into making people afraid of this drug. 

 

That's how you know it works.

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The giveaway is how much effort the establishment media (the same ones who just proved themselves liars -- again -- for three straight years) are putting into making people afraid of this drug. 

 

That's how you know it works.

It does not work at what Trump says he was taking it for. 

[shoshin]

41 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

So you believe that you know better than Trump's physician? And you believe Trump is irresponsible by following his physician's direction? 

 

I've "heard" the opposite from many doctors. 

 

Look to the studies. They show no benefit to HCQ, except for either in test tubes and in China. 

 

As I've noted before, chloroquine being an anitviral had great success before in vitro vs both ebola and HIV. It's used to not living up to the hype, which is why so many doctors who follow anti-virals closely were so skeptical. They have heard this chloroquine cry of "wolf" before. 

 

11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The giveaway is how much effort the establishment media (the same ones who just proved themselves liars -- again -- for three straight years) are putting into making people afraid of this drug. 

 

That's how you know it works.

 

Who's afraid? It's just a drug with its own side-effects and they are pretty well-known. It just hasn't been shown to work so taking it doesn't make a lot of sense. 

 

If you want to take HCQ and your doctor OKs it, have at it. Or just take it and don't consult your doctor. I don't care what you do on that front. But don't think there's any science to back up the claims, which have now retreated from "serious people took HCQ and were off a ventilator in 3 days" to "might help with prevention." The retreat on this has been telling. 

 

6 hours ago, Reality Check said:

It's becoming quite clear who the "stock holders" are for big-Pharma on this board. Lay off the sugar people, and most of your problems will fade away.

 

Who? I am sure my S&P fund holds some big-pharma, though I haven't looked to confirm it. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by shoshin

[Deranged Rhino]

4 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Who's afraid? 

 

Did you even read Biden's tweet? The entire establishment media complex is afraid. Did you see Neil Cavuto's meltdown?

 

You're either blind or being intentionally obtuse. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

8 minutes ago, shoshin said:

I've "heard" the opposite from many doctors. 

 

Look to the studies. They show no benefit to HCQ, except for either in test tubes and in China. 

 

As I've noted before, chloroquine being an anitviral had great success before in vitro vs both ebola and HIV. It's used to not living up to the hype, which is why so many doctors who follow anti-virals closely were so skeptical. They have heard this chloroquine cry of "wolf" before. 

Trump and his doctor had multiple conversations and concluded that the benefits outweighed the risks in his case. I couldn't care less what you've heard, people should listen to their doctors when it comes to medication - Trump included.

[Cinga]

36 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

There are some dumb doctors out there.  Google Eugene Gosy.  I know better than that guy, having dealt with him in the past.  I recognize the obvious dangers of opioid addiction.  He did not.  

 

Here, Trump's physician seems to be taking a minority approach to the prophylactic issue, which is especially questionable given that it is a preventative measure for a condition that has not yet arisen, rather than a treatment option for an existing condition.  Frankly, the physician should recommend that Trump also take additional, more conservative precautions, such as practicing social distancing and wearing an appropriate mask.  It's odd that the physician will (apparently) recommend a precaution that increases the risk of heart attack (to my knowledge), but seemingly hasn't pushed Trump to use the aforementioned precautions that do not have potentially deadly side effects.  

 

Short answer: in this instance, Internet message board guy has a better plan that Trump's physician.  For sure. 

 

SO then what you're REALLY saying is that no one should take HCQ without their doctor AND attorney approval right? Cause we all know how much smarter lawyers are than everyone else don't we?