Gene Frenkle Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 27 minutes ago, Doc said: Interesting. You'd think that allegedly unbiased news organizations like the ones above would seek to correct the incorrect "news" they gleefully peddled. They all do it, including Fox. It's a big game on both sides and is pure entertainment at this point. Feed your viewers what they want Get ratings Profit Repeat The 24 hour news cycle is one of the worst things to ever come around. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 39 minutes ago, Doc said: Interesting. You'd think that allegedly unbiased news organizations like the ones above would seek to correct the incorrect "news" they gleefully peddled. ...therein lies the problem.....with the entire "renowned" report being retracted, that should be the approach......but there is NO political capital in retracting or mea culpas..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Good......then bad............then good..........then bad. FOR A WHILE THEY WERE SAYING TO AVOID IT AS DANGEROUS: Coronavirus: Ibuprofen tested as a treatment. The trial will use a special formulation of ibuprofen rather than the regular tablets that people might usually buy. Some people already take this lipid capsule form of the drug for conditions like arthritis. Studies in animals suggest it might treat acute respiratory distress syndrome – one of the complications of severe coronavirus. Prof Mitul Mehta, one of the team at King’s College London, said: “We need to do a trial to show that the evidence actually matches what we expect to happen.” Early in the pandemic there were some concerns that ibuprofen might be bad for people to take, should they have the virus with mild symptoms. These were heightened when France’s health minister Oliver Veran said that taking non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, such as ibuprofen, could aggravate the infection and advised patients to take paracetamol instead. A review by the Commission on Human Medicines quickly concluded that, like paracetamol, it was safe to take for coronavirus symptoms. Both can bring a temperature down and help with flu-like symptoms. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 another "study" trashing a possible treatment for covid https://med.umn.edu/news-events/university-minnesota-trial-shows-hydroxychloroquine-has-no-benefit-over-placebo-preventing-covid-19 fortunately, the UM study did nothing to "prove" the lack of a viable covid treatment. Studies on SARS and others, back when medicine was actually looking for treatments, clearly show that zinc severely limits the replication of a virus. To be effective, however, zinc needs a transport assist to cross into a cell to fight the virus. Hydroxychloroquine is one of the items that zinc can use as a transport vehicle. you would think a better study might want to measure how effective is zinc at stopping the covid virus. The MN study only evaluates the transport vehicle- not for its effectiveness in transporting zinc - but to cure the disease -= which seems to be a pretty badly designed study. It would be like doing a study to evaluate the success rate of heart surgeons doing heart transplants. The MN study designed their test to study the taxi cab that transported the surgeon to the hospital and concluded that taxi's did not improve the transplant success rate. (Obviously) Somehow their study failed to address the efficiency of the surgeon (zinc) that was actually the active element in the success of the procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 49 minutes ago, spartacus said: another "study" trashing a possible treatment for covid https://med.umn.edu/news-events/university-minnesota-trial-shows-hydroxychloroquine-has-no-benefit-over-placebo-preventing-covid-19 fortunately, the UM study did nothing to "prove" the lack of a viable covid treatment. Studies on SARS and others, back when medicine was actually looking for treatments, clearly show that zinc severely limits the replication of a virus. To be effective, however, zinc needs a transport assist to cross into a cell to fight the virus. Hydroxychloroquine is one of the items that zinc can use as a transport vehicle. you would think a better study might want to measure how effective is zinc at stopping the covid virus. The MN study only evaluates the transport vehicle- not for its effectiveness in transporting zinc - but to cure the disease -= which seems to be a pretty badly designed study. It would be like doing a study to evaluate the success rate of heart surgeons doing heart transplants. The MN study designed their test to study the taxi cab that transported the surgeon to the hospital and concluded that taxi's did not improve the transplant success rate. (Obviously) Somehow their study failed to address the efficiency of the surgeon (zinc) that was actually the active element in the success of the procedure. In a recent study in emergency medicine, researchers allowed people to lose a fatal amount blood before bandaging wounds. The study, finding a 100% mortality rate in those bandaged, declared that bandages do not work to prevent fatal blood loss, even if properly applied. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Does it work yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said: Does it work yet? Yes. Does anything else? What happened to all the remdesivir talk? My Gilead stock is going nowhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 20 minutes ago, Doc said: Yes. Does anything else? What happened to all the remdesivir talk? My Gilead stock is going nowhere. My bet is that remdesivir doesn't work very well, just like HCQ with or without zinc. Your not acting very physiciany with this. Is your religion getting in the way? Do you have a link that show the power of this miracle drug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 27 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said: My bet is that remdesivir doesn't work very well, just like HCQ with or without zinc. Your not acting very physiciany with this. Is your religion getting in the way? Do you have a link that show the power of this miracle drug? No. As a physician I don't want to see people die. People of your religion do want to see people die. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, Doc said: No. As a physician I don't want to see people die. People of your religion do want to see people die. I'm not religious. I have no investment in whether or not HCQ is the "cure". I just enjoy watching those who do. Thanks for the entertainment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 41 minutes ago, Gene Frenkle said: I'm not religious. I have no investment in whether or not HCQ is the "cure". I just enjoy watching those who do. Thanks for the entertainment! I used "religion" in the same way you did. Otherwise you made no sense there since a) I'm an atheist and b) religion has nothing to do with this anyway. And we should all be invested in finding out whether something is a cure. It's just more evidence that you and your ilk would rather people die to make Trump look bad and deny just because he touted this. It's like everything else. If Trump is for it, automatically your ilk are suddenly against it, even if you were for it just a few years ago. It's the most entertaining thing there is, although it's getting tiring pointing-out the left's unending hypocrisy. But I guess someone has to do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrW Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 3 hours ago, spartacus said: another "study" trashing a possible treatment for covid https://med.umn.edu/news-events/university-minnesota-trial-shows-hydroxychloroquine-has-no-benefit-over-placebo-preventing-covid-19 fortunately, the UM study did nothing to "prove" the lack of a viable covid treatment. Studies on SARS and others, back when medicine was actually looking for treatments, clearly show that zinc severely limits the replication of a virus. To be effective, however, zinc needs a transport assist to cross into a cell to fight the virus. Hydroxychloroquine is one of the items that zinc can use as a transport vehicle. you would think a better study might want to measure how effective is zinc at stopping the covid virus. The MN study only evaluates the transport vehicle- not for its effectiveness in transporting zinc - but to cure the disease -= which seems to be a pretty badly designed study. It would be like doing a study to evaluate the success rate of heart surgeons doing heart transplants. The MN study designed their test to study the taxi cab that transported the surgeon to the hospital and concluded that taxi's did not improve the transplant success rate. (Obviously) Somehow their study failed to address the efficiency of the surgeon (zinc) that was actually the active element in the success of the procedure. First, let me say that I am all for clinical trials with HCQ and zinc. But I have a question if I may. Are you aware that the original French study by Raoult's group which first described the positive effects of HCQ on covid patients did not use zinc either, just HCQ or HCQ with azithromycin. Why were they successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, DrW said: First, let me say that I am all for clinical trials with HCQ and zinc. But I have a question if I may. Are you aware that the original French study by Raoult's group which first described the positive effects of HCQ on covid patients did not use zinc either, just HCQ or HCQ with azithromycin. Why were they successful? I'll jump in here if I may. I think the reason why is that those patients' endogenous zinc levels were sufficient enough to inhibit the virus and/or that the patients' viral loads were significantly lower. I would definitely take zinc with HCQ just to ensure I had enough of it to fight the virus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrW Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Doc said: I'll jump in here if I may. I think the reason why is that those patients' endogenous zinc levels were sufficient enough to inhibit the virus and/or that the patients' viral loads were significantly lower. I would definitely take zinc with HCQ just to ensure I had enough of it to fight the virus. Thanks. That is certainly a valid explanation. It leaves the question why in some studies the patients have sufficiently high endogenous zinc levels, but not in others. We obviously need more data here. But sufficiently high zinc levels are necessary anyway - alcohol dehydrogenase needs zinc. Edited June 9, 2020 by DrW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 55 minutes ago, DrW said: Thanks. That is certainly a valid explanation. It leaves the question why in some studies the patients have sufficiently high endogenous zinc levels, but not in others. We obviously need more data here. But sufficiently high zinc levels are necessary anyway - alcohol dehydrogenase needs zinc. Vitamin D levels seem to play a role also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Doc said: I used "religion" in the same way you did. Otherwise you made no sense there since a) I'm an atheist and b) religion has nothing to do with this anyway. And we should all be invested in finding out whether something is a cure. It's just more evidence that you and your ilk would rather people die to make Trump look bad and deny just because he touted this. It's like everything else. If Trump is for it, automatically your ilk are suddenly against it, even if you were for it just a few years ago. It's the most entertaining thing there is, although it's getting tiring pointing-out the left's unending hypocrisy. But I guess someone has to do it. I'm not against it. I just don't see the need to focus so much on a drug that does not look very promising in any respect. Yet this thread keeps bumping along. It amuses me greatly. Bigly, even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Gene Frenkle said: I'm not against it. I just don't see the need to focus so much on a drug that does not look very promising in any respect. Yet this thread keeps bumping along. It amuses me greatly. Bigly, even. That's because you're not a doctor and your puppet masters have told you to gainsay anything good about it because Orange Man Bad. I humor you because you're an easy mark but I'm laughing at your ignorance all the while. Keep it up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Jesus Christ, show me that it works. That will change my mind. That's all that matters. FFS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: That's because you're not a doctor and your puppet masters have told you to gainsay anything good about it because Orange Man Bad. I humor you because you're an easy mark but I'm laughing at your ignorance all the while. Keep it up. He's just bald. He wants all the Hairdroxychloroquine for himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 The one thing you can't do, despite all of your training and expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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