The Big Gamble: Hydroxychloroquine

[Magox]

I kind of view this as a poker game.  On one hand you have Trump and the other you have the media.

 

Trump looks at his hand and he thinks he has the winning hand.  Whatever he is seeing, he believes he can win with.  The media, not really knowing exactly what they have, other than they believe that Trump is full sh*t and lies all the time, believe that whatever Trump believes is wrong.

 

This is truly one of the biggest gambles that Trump is making, and every time he touts Hydroxychloroquine as a possible savior, he keeps upping up the ante, and the media keeps calling him.

 

If Trump ends up being right on this, it vastly improves his chances at winning the November elections because he could then say that:

 

A) I banned China Travel that saved thousands of lives, when Biden and everyone else was against it.

B) I promoted Hydroxychloroquine despite all the negative press.  And I was right, they were wrong.  I saved thousands and thousands of lives.  Thank God that doctors listened to me.

 

It will be a powerful fact that he will be able to weaponize against Biden and the media.

 

On the other hand, if he is wrong.  The amount of criticism he will get from the press will be almost unbearable.  It will be played on loop all the way till the day of the elections.  He can recover, but it will hurt.

 

 

With all that said, this is a sad state of affairs that this is a political matter.  It's only political because Trump is promoting it and the media hates him.  At a time when there is a pandemic raging throughout the world, prescribing a relatively safe drug that has shown strong anecdotal instances of helping people, I don't see how anyone could be against doctors prescribing a potentially life-saving drug that has minimal health risks on an off-label prescription.  This is up to doctors and their relationship with their patients.   It's mind boggling, and it truly is yet another example of the corporate establishment media being a broken entity.

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, Magox said:

I don't see how anyone could be against doctors prescribing a potentially life-saving drug that has minimal health risks on an off-label prescription.  This is up to doctors and their relationship with their patients.

 

Agreed - I haven't seen anyone disagree with this. 

[Doc]

Just now, Gary Busey said:

Agreed - I haven't seen anyone disagree with this. 

 

You're joking, right?

[Q-baby!]

The only thing Trump has to be careful of, is trying to get things back to normal, too quickly. If he ***** that up, he’s in trouble. Other than that, he’s fine. 

[B-Man]

New York county executives want Cuomo to lift restrictions on hydroxychloroquine treatment

New York county executives want access to the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine that Gov. Andrew Cuomo conceded showed early “effective” responses in COVID-19 virus patients in current clinical trials, which he began allowing within the state two weeks ago.

 

The Democratic governor told reporters at his daily briefing in Albany on Monday he would ask President Trump to raise the federal supply of hydroxychloroquine to New York pharmacies. This would enable the state to lift the current restriction on purchases of the drug, which Trump has touted as a potential antidote to the coronavirus, which has killed nearly 10,000 people and has much of the nation on lockdown.

 

“There has been anecdotal evidence that it is promising,” Cuomo said while noting the lack of a formal study.

 

New York county executives, according to Steve McLaughlin of Rensselaer County, have discussed the issue of with one another and wondered why Cuomo prohibited the treatment from being dispensed to different parts of the state.

 

“I think most of us would say, 'Why are our doctors and pharmacists being prevented by Cuomo from even prescribing it?' Which right now, he put a block on that, and you can't even really get your hands on it.” McLaughlin told the Washington Examiner. "So, I think most of us are saying, 'Listen, in a life or death [situation], if somebody is really sick, I think that you'd want them to be able to do it without having to be in Cuomo's study.'”

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/new-york-county-executives-want-cuomo-to-lift-restrictions-on-hydroxychloroquine-treatment

 

 

 

 

 

 

As to Magox's excellent point about President Trump, I think that this is why the U.S. was so fortunate to have a (essentially) non-politician as POTUS

 

As a businessman he weighed those outcomes and made decisive moves to help the country as a whole, not a political one. 

 

 

.

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, Magox said:

I kind of view this as a poker game.  On one hand you have Trump and the other you have the media.

 

Trump looks at his hand and he thinks he has the winning hand.  Whatever he is seeing, he believes he can win with.  The media, not really knowing exactly what they have, other than they believe that Trump is full sh*t and lies all the time, believe that whatever Trump believes is wrong.

 

This is truly one of the biggest gambles that Trump is making, and every time he touts Hydroxychloroquine as a possible savior, he keeps upping up the ante, and the media keeps calling him.

 

If Trump ends up being right on this, it vastly improves his chances at winning the November elections because he could then say that:

 

A) I banned China Travel that saved thousands of lives, when Biden and everyone else was against it.

B) I promoted Hydroxychloroquine despite all the negative press.  And I was right, they were wrong.  I saved thousands and thousands of lives.  Thank God that doctors listened to me.

 

It will be a powerful fact that he will be able to weaponize against Biden and the media.

 

On the other hand, if he is wrong.  The amount of criticism he will get from the press will be almost unbearable.  It will be played on loop all the way till the day of the elections.  He can recover, but it will hurt.

 

 

With all that said, this is a sad state of affairs that this is a political matter.  It's only political because Trump is promoting it and the media hates him.  At a time when there is a pandemic raging throughout the world, prescribing a relatively safe drug that has shown strong anecdotal instances of helping people, I don't see how anyone could be against doctors prescribing a potentially life-saving drug that has minimal health risks on an off-label prescription.  This is up to doctors and their relationship with their patients.   It's mind boggling, and it truly is yet another example of the corporate establishment media being a broken entity.

 

I disagree that there's a gamble with HCQ.  It has been shown to work.  It has been and is still being used by millions upon millions of people with no prior concern over its side effect profile.  And at present there is no other treatment for Wuhan virus.  The only one's gambling are the media and those who foolishly follow them, and as I've said, I suspect they want more deaths so that Trump looks bad.

[Warren Zevon]

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You're joking, right?

 

Who has disagreed with that?

[Deranged Rhino]

55 minutes ago, Magox said:

I kind of view this as a poker game.  On one hand you have Trump and the other you have the media.

 

Trump looks at his hand and he thinks he has the winning hand.  Whatever he is seeing, he believes he can win with.  The media, not really knowing exactly what they have, other than they believe that Trump is full sh*t and lies all the time, believe that whatever Trump believes is wrong.

 

This is truly one of the biggest gambles that Trump is making, and every time he touts Hydroxychloroquine as a possible savior, he keeps upping up the ante, and the media keeps calling him.

 

If Trump ends up being right on this, it vastly improves his chances at winning the November elections because he could then say that:

 

A) I banned China Travel that saved thousands of lives, when Biden and everyone else was against it.

B) I promoted Hydroxychloroquine despite all the negative press.  And I was right, they were wrong.  I saved thousands and thousands of lives.  Thank God that doctors listened to me.

 

It will be a powerful fact that he will be able to weaponize against Biden and the media.

 

On the other hand, if he is wrong.  The amount of criticism he will get from the press will be almost unbearable.  It will be played on loop all the way till the day of the elections.  He can recover, but it will hurt.

 

 

With all that said, this is a sad state of affairs that this is a political matter.  It's only political because Trump is promoting it and the media hates him.  At a time when there is a pandemic raging throughout the world, prescribing a relatively safe drug that has shown strong anecdotal instances of helping people, I don't see how anyone could be against doctors prescribing a potentially life-saving drug that has minimal health risks on an off-label prescription.  This is up to doctors and their relationship with their patients.   It's mind boggling, and it truly is yet another example of the corporate establishment media being a broken entity.

 

 

Barr is all in as well... 

 

 

[Magox]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I disagree that there's a gamble with HCQ.  It has been shown to work.  It has been and is still being used by millions upon millions of people with no prior concern over its side effect profile.  And at present there is no other treatment for Wuhan virus.  The only one's gambling are the media and those who foolishly follow them, and as I've said, I suspect they want more deaths so that Trump looks bad.

 

I don't think you understood what I was saying.  I don't believe it should be viewed as a gamble but here we are, the media has basically taken an explicit position against the president on this matter.  I think that's stupid and reckless and shows how broken of an institution that they are.

 

Trump understands this and he is gambling that the clinical trials are going to come in saying that it is effective.  It's not been proven without doubt that it does work, even though there is strong anecdotal and uncontrolled environment tests that say that it does.    I think he is 100% right to try to get this drug out in the supply chains as much as possible to at least try to save as many lives as possible.

 

Trump knowing that the media is making a big deal of this, he is basically doubling, tripling and quadrupling down on it that it will work, knowing that the media will continue to rail against him.  He believes it will work, and he believes that from his view, once it works he will be able to claim major victory on several different fronts.   

 

What I don't understand is the media's stake in this.  It appears to me that there is a decent likelihood that it will be proven to assist patients with the virus.  Don't they understand that they will take yet another major hit against their credibility and help boost Trump if turns out that it does help people?  They don't know more about the efficacy of it than Trump and his team.  It's just a bizarre position that they are staking on.  It's bizarre because they very well may turn out to have taken the wrong side of this debate and that on a drug that is proven to be pretty safe, is out there possibly helping many people during the middle of a raging pandemic, it's common sense to have doctors use this drug if they deem it to be safe.  

 

The media's hate for Trump, trumps their desire to see him be right about this.  It's pathetic.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Magox

[B-Man]

 

JOHN TAMNY: The New York Times’ Baseless Insinuations About Sanofi, Trump, and Hydroxychloroquine. 

 

“The shame about the Times report is that it didn’t have to be.

 

Peter Baker, Katie Rogers, David Enrich, and Maggie Haberman could have just responsibly penned an article revealing a debate about a drug’s efficacy.

 

But since President Trump talked hydroxychloroquine up, they had to lace in their own biases and weak revelations in a vain attempt to make Trump look bad.”

 

But Orange Man is Bad, even if Batker, Rogers, Enrich, and Haberman — shameless and awful, all of them — have to sacrifice the truth and whatever is left of their reputations to prove it.

 

[Magox]

Major medical group endorses hydroxychloroquine

 

They basically make the case that I was making in that there are some promising signs and since we are in a major pandemic scourge, doctors would be wise to consider it.

 

Quote

 

America’s major medical society specializing in the treatment of respiratory diseases has endorsed using hydroxychloroquine for seriously ill hospitalized coronavirus patients.

The American Thoracic Society issued guidelines Monday that suggest COVID-19 patients with pneumonia get doses of the anti-malaria drug.

“To prescribe hydroxychloroquine (or chloroquine) to hospitalized patients with COVID-19 pneumonia if all of the following apply: a) shared decision-making is possible, b) data can be collected for interim comparisons of patients who received hydroxychloroquine (or chloroquine) versus those who did not, c) the illness is sufficiently severe to warrant investigational therapy, and d) the drug is not in short supply,” the Thoracic Society said.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

The medical group said evidence about the impact of hydroxychloroquine is “contradictory” but it is worth experimenting with during a public health crisis to treat very sick patients.

“We believe that in urgent situations like a pandemic, we can learn while treating by collecting real-world data,” said Dr. Kevin Wilson, chief of guidelines and documents at the American Thoracic Society.

“There are in vitro studies that suggest that hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have activity against SARS-CoV-2019, the virus that causes COVID-19,” Wilson said.

But he also said several controlled trials from China and France “all have serious flaws and inconsistent findings. … Thus, the bottom line is, whether hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine confer benefits to patients with COVID-19 are unanswered questions.”

Like Trump, Cuomo said Monday giving sick COVID patients doses of hydroxychloroquine is a worthy experiment to try to save lives.

“There has been anecdotal evidence that it is promising, that’s why we’re going ahead, doctors have to prescribe it. There are some people who have pre-existing conditions where it doesn’t work, or they’re taking medication that’s not consistent with this treatment, but anecdotally it’s been positive,” the governor said during a press briefing in Albany.

He said studies will ultimately determine the drug’s efficacy.

A top doctor with the city’s public hospital system agreed.

“We have multiple types of treatments, studies underway to see what’s working best. Many of our patients are receiving Hydroxychloroquine as part of those treatment regimens,” said Dr. Eric Wei, vice president and chief quality officer for NYC Health+Hospitals..

“I think it’s still too early to tell,” Wei said when asked of the results from use of the anti-malaria drug on coronavirus patients. “We’re still looking at the data, but right now we’re willing to try just about anything to save patients”

 

 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Gary Busey said:

Who has disagreed with that?

 

Many of the libs here and most of the MSM and their followers.  I can't believe you're even asking this.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

I heard someone on the radio the other day. He wondered why it would take any time at all to see if ANYONE who was currently being treated with the drug, for a pre-existing condition had been admitted to an American hospital had also then contracted the Virus.  I thought that was super interesting.  It's essentially a reverse test.  If nobody who was currently being treated with Hydroxy… had also been inflicted with the Corona Virus, wouldn't that be proof enough that it works to prevent the virus?

[Warren Zevon]

39 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Many of the libs here and most of the MSM and their followers.  I can't believe you're even asking this.

 

 

 

Find me a "lib" who doesn't want to listen to the recommendation of their doctor. 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Let's see if he used it or not. I'm betting he did.

[Foxx]

4 hours ago, Magox said:

 

I don't think you understood what I was saying.  I don't believe it should be viewed as a gamble but here we are, the media has basically taken an explicit position against the president on this matter.  I think that's stupid and reckless and shows how broken of an institution that they are.

 

Trump understands this and he is gambling that the clinical trials are going to come in saying that it is effective.  It's not been proven without doubt that it does work, even though there is strong anecdotal and uncontrolled environment tests that say that it does.    I think he is 100% right to try to get this drug out in the supply chains as much as possible to at least try to save as many lives as possible.

 

Trump knowing that the media is making a big deal of this, he is basically doubling, tripling and quadrupling down on it that it will work, knowing that the media will continue to rail against him.  He believes it will work, and he believes that from his view, once it works he will be able to claim major victory on several different fronts.   

 

What I don't understand is the media's stake in this.  It appears to me that there is a decent likelihood that it will be proven to assist patients with the virus.  Don't they understand that they will take yet another major hit against their credibility and help boost Trump if turns out that it does help people?  They don't know more about the efficacy of it than Trump and his team.  It's just a bizarre position that they are staking on.  It's bizarre because they very well may turn out to have taken the wrong side of this debate and that on a drug that is proven to be pretty safe, is out there possibly helping many people during the middle of a raging pandemic, it's common sense to have doctors use this drug if they deem it to be safe.  

 

The media's hate for Trump, trumps their desire to see him be right about this.  It's pathetic.

i think we all know how this plays out. first the media will double down on it then they will act like they never ever said such a thing and ignore giving Trump any credit for suggesting it in the first place. whereby they begin to trash Trump for not... blah blah blah.

 

broken record they are...

Edited April 9, 2020 by Foxx

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[Magox]

NIH to begin testing Hydroxychloroquine

——————————————————————

 

The study will evaluate the safety and the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine and be conducted by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NHLBI), part of NIH. 

“Hydroxychloroquine has showed promise in a lab setting against SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, and preliminary reports suggest potential efficacy in small studies with patients,” said James P Kiley, director, Division of Lung Diseases, NHLBI.

 

———————————————————————

 

Just to show you how invested the media is against this, in the same article they reference 3 doctors who don’t believe it works.    3 doctors.    Let that sink in.    
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I heard someone on the radio the other day. He wondered why it would take any time at all to see if ANYONE who was currently being treated with the drug, for a pre-existing condition had been admitted to an American hospital had also then contracted the Virus.  I thought that was super interesting.  It's essentially a reverse test.  If nobody who was currently being treated with Hydroxy… had also been inflicted with the Corona Virus, wouldn't that be proof enough that it works to prevent the virus?

 

I heard someone say that someone noticed that people on HCQ weren't getting infected and that's what clued them in.  I have no idea where I saw it though (could have been here).  But you also need to take zinc, because zinc is what shuts down viral replication.

 

4 hours ago, Gary Busey said:

Find me a "lib" who doesn't want to listen to the recommendation of their doctor. 

 

Find me one who does, when it comes to HCQ.

 

3 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Let's see if he used it or not. I'm betting he did.

 

I doubt they'll reveal it.  Sounds like they want to put all the success on the NHS.

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

NIH to begin testing Hydroxychloroquine

——————————————————————

 

The study will evaluate the safety and the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine and be conducted by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NHLBI), part of NIH. 

“Hydroxychloroquine has showed promise in a lab setting against SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, and preliminary reports suggest potential efficacy in small studies with patients,” said James P Kiley, director, Division of Lung Diseases, NHLBI.

 

———————————————————————

 

Just to show you how invested the media is against this, in the same article they reference 3 doctors who don’t believe it works.    3 doctors.    Let that sink in.    

wait... what?

 

a drug already on the market, having past clinicals long ago, is now having to be tested to make sure it is not harmful?  

 

what, exactly, am i missing here?